What Laws are still valid to christians
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Nothing is written on our hearts. That is just figurative language for the indwelling holy spirit. The letter of the law refers to the actual letters of the law that were chiseled in stone, which have no life and are unable to give life. The spirit of the law is the indwelling holy spirit, which is life.
The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2
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(In advance, Elin, I couldn't quite tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me. But if you are agreeing with me in whole or in part, great. This post is addressed to those who disagree with me. If that's you, well then here is my response.)
So how then do we interpret Jesus telling His followers to follow the Law and to teach others the same thing forever. It sounds really nice and happy to use all sorts of references to the "New Covenant" to imply that we shouldn't follow the "Old Covenant".
But in reality, Jesus Himself always followed His Father's Law, and never spoke AGAINST following the Law.
He was circumcised as a Baby.
His mother offered up sacrifices for purity.
He told the Pharisess that though they tithed a tenth of even their smallest herbs, they had forgotten the weightier matters like justice mercy and faithfulness, and they should have practicing these without neglecting the tithe of even the smallest herbs.
He said in Matthew 5 that
1) He didn't come to do away with the law
2) Not one letter was ever to be destroyed
3) If you follow it and teach others to do so, you'd be the greatest in His Kingdom
4) If didn't follow it and you taught others not to, you'd be the least in His Kingdom.
Sure, there's the 1 word "fulfill" in there, but I would say that any accurate definition of the word "fulfill" needs to be in perfect agreement with the 4 points mentioned above.
If we believe in 1 God, in the OT Jesus Himself gave the Law, and Jesus Himself said that it was forever, and that Jesus Himself said that He never changes.
So then any interpretation of anything in Scripture has to fall in line with that same stance, or we run the risk of implying that God isn't the same yesterday, today and forever.
Again, just to be clear, I'm not saying in any way that our obedience or lack thereof has any bearing on our salvation. The Law wasn't intended for that. The Law, and our obedience to it shows us how to live practically and spiritually, and show that we love Him because we want to obey His commands.
So how then do we interpret Jesus telling His followers to follow the Law and to teach others the same thing forever. It sounds really nice and happy to use all sorts of references to the "New Covenant" to imply that we shouldn't follow the "Old Covenant".
But in reality, Jesus Himself always followed His Father's Law, and never spoke AGAINST following the Law.
He was circumcised as a Baby.
His mother offered up sacrifices for purity.
He told the Pharisess that though they tithed a tenth of even their smallest herbs, they had forgotten the weightier matters like justice mercy and faithfulness, and they should have practicing these without neglecting the tithe of even the smallest herbs.
He said in Matthew 5 that
1) He didn't come to do away with the law
2) Not one letter was ever to be destroyed
3) If you follow it and teach others to do so, you'd be the greatest in His Kingdom
4) If didn't follow it and you taught others not to, you'd be the least in His Kingdom.
Sure, there's the 1 word "fulfill" in there, but I would say that any accurate definition of the word "fulfill" needs to be in perfect agreement with the 4 points mentioned above.
If we believe in 1 God, in the OT Jesus Himself gave the Law, and Jesus Himself said that it was forever, and that Jesus Himself said that He never changes.
So then any interpretation of anything in Scripture has to fall in line with that same stance, or we run the risk of implying that God isn't the same yesterday, today and forever.
Again, just to be clear, I'm not saying in any way that our obedience or lack thereof has any bearing on our salvation. The Law wasn't intended for that. The Law, and our obedience to it shows us how to live practically and spiritually, and show that we love Him because we want to obey His commands.
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Well, I'm saying what the NT says, that true love wrought by the Holy Spirit
doesn't need regulations to know how to love.
Love given by the Holy Spirit doesn't need to be told to love and worship God,
or to be generous, or kind, or to serve, or to help those in need, or to respect your neighbor,
or not to harm your neighbor, or to make restitution for any wrong to them, etc.
Love worked in the heart by the Holy Spirit will do these things as a way of life without being told how.
doesn't need regulations to know how to love.
Love given by the Holy Spirit doesn't need to be told to love and worship God,
or to be generous, or kind, or to serve, or to help those in need, or to respect your neighbor,
or not to harm your neighbor, or to make restitution for any wrong to them, etc.
Love worked in the heart by the Holy Spirit will do these things as a way of life without being told how.
I would agree that the Holy Spirit doesn't need regulations to know how to love. I was wondering if you thought that the Holy Spirit wasn't part of the Mosaic Law or the prophets, and if you thought that it was, or is separated from it now through Christ Jesus.
Zechariah 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
D
Jesus did not always follow the Mosaic laws, atleast not all of it.
1) He and His disciples did break the Sabbath when they harvested grain to eat.
2) He healed on the Sabbath.
He broke these laws because it was His job to come to Earth and remove the heavy yoke of the Mosaic laws. He brought us His new yoke which light and easy to bear by fulfilling the law.
1) He and His disciples did break the Sabbath when they harvested grain to eat.
2) He healed on the Sabbath.
He broke these laws because it was His job to come to Earth and remove the heavy yoke of the Mosaic laws. He brought us His new yoke which light and easy to bear by fulfilling the law.
Well, that's a lot of boot-strapping to make the regulations of the Mosaic law necessary in the NT.
It's better to use what is specifically stated in the NT regarding the Mosaic law,
rather than to boot-strap Scriptures together based on connections between Scriptures which are not
stated in Scripture.
And what is specifically stated in the NT regarding the Mosaic law are several things:
1) it was changed because the Aaronic priesthood on which it was based was changed (Heb 8:9-12),
2) it was set aside as the means to righteousness and salvation because it was weak and useless
to obtain them (Heb 7:18-19),
3) it is now fulfilled in Christ Jesus' law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-1), and
4) Christ Jesus' law of love is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10).
These are somewhat different than your boot-strapping to make the regulations of the Mosaic law
necessary in the NT.
It's better to use what is specifically stated in the NT regarding the Mosaic law,
rather than to boot-strap Scriptures together based on connections between Scriptures which are not
stated in Scripture.
And what is specifically stated in the NT regarding the Mosaic law are several things:
1) it was changed because the Aaronic priesthood on which it was based was changed (Heb 8:9-12),
2) it was set aside as the means to righteousness and salvation because it was weak and useless
to obtain them (Heb 7:18-19),
3) it is now fulfilled in Christ Jesus' law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-1), and
4) Christ Jesus' law of love is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10).
These are somewhat different than your boot-strapping to make the regulations of the Mosaic law
necessary in the NT.
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D
If you want to think the sky is green, go for it.
But removing heads of wheat from the wheat is harvesting. He broke the letter of the law yet may of still conformed to the spirit of the law. Either way part of Jesus' mission was to do away with the Mosaic law and institute a new covenant of grace.
We consistently see Jesus condemn the way the law has been promulgated by the Jewish leaders. It is mind boggling that some Judaizers still try to foist the Mosaic laws on us today.
But removing heads of wheat from the wheat is harvesting. He broke the letter of the law yet may of still conformed to the spirit of the law. Either way part of Jesus' mission was to do away with the Mosaic law and institute a new covenant of grace.
We consistently see Jesus condemn the way the law has been promulgated by the Jewish leaders. It is mind boggling that some Judaizers still try to foist the Mosaic laws on us today.
Remembering that the phrases "the letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" are not in Scripture."
All that is in Scripture is "the letter" and "the Spirit."
The non-Biblical phrase of "the letter of the law," coupled with the Biblical phrase "the letter kills," and
the non-Biblical phrase of "the spirit of the law," coupled with the Biblical phrase "the Spirit gives life,"
suggest the unBiblical notion that the external, literal sense of Scripture is deadly (kills) or unprofitable,
while the inner, spiritual (mystical or mythical) sense is life giving.
That is what I am trying to point out.
That false notion has its basis in the two unbiblical phrases above.
Yep!
And the letter kills (2Co 3:6).
All that is in Scripture is "the letter" and "the Spirit."
The non-Biblical phrase of "the letter of the law," coupled with the Biblical phrase "the letter kills," and
the non-Biblical phrase of "the spirit of the law," coupled with the Biblical phrase "the Spirit gives life,"
suggest the unBiblical notion that the external, literal sense of Scripture is deadly (kills) or unprofitable,
while the inner, spiritual (mystical or mythical) sense is life giving.
That is what I am trying to point out.
That false notion has its basis in the two unbiblical phrases above.
Yep!
And the letter kills (2Co 3:6).
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If one believes that the Pharisees were following the Mosaic Law, they must think again. In these verses Jesus is blatantly saying that they didn't know the writings of Moses. So, I agree with you when you say "We consistently see Jesus condemn the way the law has been promulgated by the Jewish leaders."
John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Not only that, all of what Jesus taught before His death is Old Testament.
Hebrews 9:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Jesus didn't do away with the law at all. In fact He said the very opposite.
Luke 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
If fulfill means to do away with, then Jesus was of a double tongue, and neither one of us believe that.
John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Not only that, all of what Jesus taught before His death is Old Testament.
Hebrews 9:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Jesus didn't do away with the law at all. In fact He said the very opposite.
Luke 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
If fulfill means to do away with, then Jesus was of a double tongue, and neither one of us believe that.
27Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the
(NEW) covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26
Hebrews 9
11-28
16In the case of a will,[43] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.9( who died )17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.
18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood
.
19When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people.
20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep
24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.
the whole bible (66 books) took time to be put together.
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
the whole bible (66 books) took time to be put together.
(NEW) covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26
Hebrews 9
11-28
16In the case of a will,[43] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.9( who died )17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.
18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood
.
19When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people.
20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep
24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.
the whole bible (66 books) took time to be put together.
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
the whole bible (66 books) took time to be put together.