What Laws are still valid to christians

[just-me]

Now we just need to wait for some crazy, new, liberal translation to change that to "And your boots strapped with the preparation of the gospel of peace."

This is as close as I can get to bootstrapping.
Acts 12:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

 

[p_rehbein]

Not true, Jesus didn't break any laws from His Father, otherwise He couldn't have been the Savior of the world.
1.The grain was left in the fields for the poor according to the law. It wasn't against the law to eat on the Sabbath.
2.According to the law there is a law of leprosy in Leviticus 14. This procedure took place in a time sequence including the day of the Sabbath. Jesus said clearly if your ox falls in the ditch on the Sabbath go pull him out. That isn't against the law of God.

before you hold to this belief too tightly, you might want to read what Jesus and His disciples did on the Sabbath as they walked through a cornfield..........

 

[Elin]

Elin, These scriptures show that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was there even in the OT.

When you look at it, Scripture shows "filling" not to be the same as "indwelling."

Filling with the Spirit was simply bestowing a spiritual gift, equipping a person for special service to God.

It was given to the unsaved in both the OT (Saul) and the NT (Mt 7:21-23), as well as to the saved.

It is not indwelling.

 

[p_rehbein]

I don't think Jesus broke any of the Mosaic Law, for the Mosaic laws are ways we are to express love. Jesus kept the law to rest on the Sabbath, but if they were very hungry they would break the law of love. If Jesus let an ill man suffer on the Sabbath, He would break the basic law of love.

According to those who wanted to stone Him to death for breaking these Mosaic laws, He did..........they did not recognize the "law of love." Jesus did not always keep the law to "rest" on the Sabbath.......not always.......

Where do you read of this basic law of love?

 

[p_rehbein]

Every law is still valid as long as it is from God. Jesus did not come to break the law either, but rather to fulfill it.

He DID FULFILL IT! Now, what is left? It has "waxed, and grown old, and a NEW COVENANT has replaced it."

Read that somewhere..............

 

[Elin]

Boot strapping is a cool term Elin. Never heard that before, but it's neat, really. Where does that term come from, and what does it mean? I was born on a farm and wore boots, but the only time that strapping occurred what with the belt.

Heard that!

It's a country phrase, not a Biblical one, like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, or pulling yourself over the fence with your bootstraps, a self-propelling without external support.

 

[p_rehbein]

Pastors were teachers, and the role is called Pastor/Teacher.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1Ti 2:12)

Paul is speaking of being a pastor over others in the church.
Women are not allowed to be pastors.

And in the face of much resistance, the Catholic church is still faithful to that command.


No, because Paul grounds it in God's permanently established order at creation.
It is binding as long as creation exists.

"For Adam was formed first then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

No, and no, God did not COMMAND or FORBID it.............and you are ONLY arguing about authority over man, and my point was to show that Paul told women to keep silence...........you have to read the comment from the other poster to have the proper context..............as well, you completely miss the context of Paul's instructions............but that's ok.......

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

before you hold to this belief too tightly, you might want to read what Jesus and His disciples did on the Sabbath as they walked through a cornfield..........

The interesting thing to consider about this is that when some of Israel ventured out to find manna on the sabbath, they were condemned by GOD even though they didn't find any to collect.

And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather [manna], and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:27-28​

On the other hand, the disciples who were serving the lord, gathered grain on the sabbath and were not condemned.

​At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck off heads of grain and eat them. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Behold, your disciples are doing what it is not permitted to do on the Sabbath!” ... [Jesus said] if you had known what it means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. Matthew 12:1-7​

 

[Elin]

I beg to differ. There is one Spirit, the same Spirit that equips the person for a special purpose.

Yes there is one Spirit, but Scripture states he operates in more than one way.

Those whom the Spirit indwells are born again and eternally saved.

Those whom he temporarily fills, maybe not (Saul and Mt 7:21-23).

Technicalities

Don't you think that the difference between those in whom the gifts of the Spirit operated in Mt 7:21-23 and in Saul,

and the born again in whom the Holy Spirit dwells through faith by grace, is more than just a technicality?

 

[p_rehbein]

The interesting thing to consider about this is that when some of Israel ventured out to find manna on the sabbath, they were condemned by GOD even though they didn't find any to collect.

And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather [manna], and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:27-28​

On the other hand, the disciples who were serving the lord, gathered grain on the sabbath and were not condemned.

​At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck off heads of grain and eat them. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Behold, your disciples are doing what it is not permitted to do on the Sabbath!” ... [Jesus said] if you had known what it means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. Matthew 12:1-7​

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and He SAID: the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath.......perspective means so very much......

 

[p_rehbein]

If folks want to know WHAT LAW the Church is to fully obey, then read carefully:

Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So, the LAW OF FAITH (New Covenant - Grace) is what we are to be obedient to........

SO, how many of you who "cling desperately to the Mosaic Laws are being obedient to the Law of Faith?

(just wondering here....... )

 

[Elin]

what if my boots have no straps?

Guess you won't be boot-strapping!

 

[Elin]

Now we just need to wait for some crazy, new, liberal translation to change that to "And your boots strapped with the preparation of the gospel of peace."

har de har har. . .good one!

 

[KohenMatt]

If you want to think the sky is green, go for it.

But removing heads of wheat from the wheat is harvesting. He broke the letter of the law yet may of still conformed to the spirit of the law. Either way part of Jesus' mission was to do away with the Mosaic law and institute a new covenant of grace.

We consistently see Jesus condemn the way the law has been promulgated by the Jewish leaders. It is mind boggling that some Judaizers still try to foist the Mosaic laws on us today.

A debate on the definition of "harvesting" by itself is a pretty poor evidence that Jesus broke the Law. Are you aware of any other instances where He broke the Law?

And how can you say that "Jesus' mission was to do away with the Mosaic law" when He specifically said the EXACT opposite?

 

[RedTent]

I think we need to keep in mind what was happening at the time Acts was written about. It is explaining eternal truths, but using the events of the first century. We also have to understand everything that happened up to this point, especially how the Hebrews evolved from the people raised in Egypt to the people in Canaan. God sent prophets all along explaining to the people how He was different from the idols that surrounded them, explaining how love was the key to the Lord.

God had given things like using food as symbols of all this, etc. Scripture keeps saying there is a connection between what we do in our material world and how the spiritual world operates, but it is the spiritual world that lasts forever. That is what all this debate we have here is all about. Paul and Peter said they just wanted to teach the spiritual law, and let the other go except for some basic ones.

They were as mixed up then as we are now! Some held out for their need to first be obedient to everything God gave to train them, some that they didn't need to do any of it, they weren't Jews and didn't need anything of the Jews. The idea that they should toss out everything that Moses learned on Sinai never occurred to any of them. The leaders did understand that they had to bend enough to be allowed in the synagogue, for that was where they could get scripture to learn about the God they were accepting. They had no doubt that Jesus was the Son, sent by God the Father, and learning of the Father was learning of Jesus.

We can't learn of what the happenings told of in Acts mean to us today, if we won't learn of what they meant then. Paul wrote letters with eternal truths from God, but it wasn't a letter to the church in the town you live in today. It was a town in the Holy Land, in the first century. The truths are eternal, but the problems they were addressing were different from the problems of your town. If Paul wrote to you, personally, it would be a different letter.

 

[p_rehbein]

1st Corinthians 11:16) But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If folks want to know WHAT LAW the Church is to fully obey, then read carefully:

Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So, the LAW OF FAITH (New Covenant - Grace) is what we are to be obedient to........

SO, how many of you who "cling desperately to the Mosaic Laws are being obedient to the Law of Faith?

(just wondering here....... )

One who is guided by the spirit does not need the mosaic law. Which can never teach us how to be righteous, It can only condemn us, and prove to us how sinfull we still are

The law of LOVE is what makes us learn to live as Christ, When we love others, we do not need to be told not to do something, we would automatically do it.

 

[p_rehbein]

One who is guided by the spirit does not need the mosaic law. Which can never teach us how to be righteous, It can only condemn us, and prove to us how sinfull we still are

The law of LOVE is what makes us learn to live as Christ, When we love others, we do not need to be told not to do something, we would automatically do it.

yup........and the Law of Faith.......

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by just-me

Not true, Jesus didn't break any laws from His Father, otherwise He couldn't have been the Savior of the world.
1.The grain was left in the fields for the poor according to the law. It wasn't against the law to eat on the Sabbath.
2.According to the law there is a law of leprosy in Leviticus 14. This procedure took place in a time sequence including the day of the Sabbath. Jesus said clearly if your ox falls in the ditch on the Sabbath go pull him out. That isn't against the law of God.

before you hold to this belief too tightly, you might want to read what Jesus and His disciples did on the Sabbath as they walked through a cornfield..........

Matthew 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Matthew 12:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful (meaning prohibited) for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

If you were not clean according to the law, you could not enter the temple. God ordains the people that could eat the showbread accordingly.
When David did this, it also wasn't lawful for David or his men also to eat the shewbread. The ingredient that was missing by the Pharisees, is "common sense". When common sense is applied to the law then it is good, and can be properly applied.
When an emergency vehicle is going to an emergency and runs a red light, he uses his flashing red light, and that makes his actions right, and is common sense. One hundred percent of understanding and applying God's law, must be good old common sense that God gave to each of us, if we will but use it.

1 Samuel 21:3-6 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore what is under thine hand? give me five loaves of bread in mine hand, or what there is present.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

This explains the corn in the field as I mentioned before
Leviticus 23:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Here is one more comparison of the common sense that needs to be evoked according to righteousness of the law, or If you will, the Spirit of the law. According to God’s will and His law, David and His soldiers were to succeed. That was the law. Without common sense, there can be no understanding of the law and the original purpose thereof, and the Pharisees didn’t get it, as some still don’t get it.

Matthew 12:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Hosea 6:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

 

[p_rehbein]

Originally Posted by just-me

Not true, Jesus didn't break any laws from His Father, otherwise He couldn't have been the Savior of the world.
1.The grain was left in the fields for the poor according to the law. It wasn't against the law to eat on the Sabbath.
2.According to the law there is a law of leprosy in Leviticus 14. This procedure took place in a time sequence including the day of the Sabbath. Jesus said clearly if your ox falls in the ditch on the Sabbath go pull him out. That isn't against the law of God.


Matthew 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Matthew 12:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful (meaning prohibited) for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

If you were not clean according to the law, you could not enter the temple. God ordains the people that could eat the showbread accordingly.
When David did this, it also wasn't lawful for David or his men also to eat the shewbread. The ingredient that was missing by the Pharisees, is "common sense". When common sense is applied to the law then it is good, and can be properly applied.
When an emergency vehicle is going to an emergency and runs a red light, he uses his red light, and that makes his actions right, and is common sense. One hundred percent of understand and applying God's law, must be good old common sense that God gave to each of us, if we will but use it.

1 Samuel 21:3-6 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore what is under thine hand? give me five loaves of bread in mine hand, or what there is present.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.

This explains the corn in the field as I mentioned before
Leviticus 23:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Here is one more comparison of the common sense that needs to be evoked according to righteousness of the law, or If you will, the Spirit of the law. According to God’s will and His law, David and His soldiers were to succeed. That was the law. Without common sense, there can be no understanding of the law and the original purpose thereof, and the Pharisees didn’t get it, as some still don’t get it.

Matthew 12:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Hosea 6:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

So, I wanna come over and inspect your fields to assure that you are in compliance with the Law.........and I want to inspect your vessel to assure it is pure and holy........would that be ok?

Now, I like this part.......... "Matthew 12:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Hosea 6:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me."

But, IF ANYONE chooses to cling to the Mosaic Laws, that is their choice, I will pray that they can even come close to being in complete obedience always...........according to Scripture, no one else has managed this.........