What Laws are still valid to christians

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Yet because of flesh, it can try to make void the Law as to not be guilty and still harm others as in I am forgiven, so why not drink up all the wine, eat all the food wit no regard to others that might not have food in their homes. And have many more problems that Paul addressed to the Corinthians. Many are still Carnal and do make voids the Law, so they have an excuse to use the grace to harm others without the care that God gives in and through God's Spirit.
Ah, I believe the light went on.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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No you clearly misunderstand me or purposefully misrepresent me, for I take all Scriptures into view not just ones that give me a gift, but also the ones that say I must follow Yahweh.

unless you want to be a saint in the catholic church you may want to bind this verse to your heart.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah.
Please take note:
in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah.[/QUOTE]
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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i dont disagree, but if one is truly walking in the Spirit their actions will be in line with the Law, I can hionestly say out of all the "spirit" walking people I have met, that didnt look into the Law only a literall handful actually matched their actions with what the Law perscribes.

myself, I HAVE A BOOK IN FRONT OF ME that tells me how Yahweh wants me to behave, why not read it?
no, since the law is fulfilled in us we are to be led by the spirit and live in love and faith that is all that is required... what more is there? that's what's wrong with most of the churches today the cross too " simple " for them they must find something extraordinary to do, look at abel and cain when they gave their offering cain gave nice stuff as his offering but guess what it was meaningless to God he did not require, we need to stick to what we need to do and stop trying to find " extras " or more way to please God to show that you are righteous, from the moment a born again believer has that birth of Christ they are automatically righteous did you not know that the holy spirit is the spirit of christ? so it would be the spirit of christ living in you that is what makes you righteous you don't need to do something to be righteous your already righteous through the holy spirit, and your everyday life and actions will prove it, i can't get enough of God when he saved me not saying i'm perfect but we become addicted to God and his righteousness when we receive him, key word their HIS righteous not righteousness of the flesh
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here. I was always bothered by this verse, until the truth set me free.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
The NT was written in Greek.

This man's translation does not agree with the Greek of the NT.

Jesus was supporting the authority of the Pharisees, not because they were right,
but because they were the authorized successors of Moses as teachers of the law.

Just as Paul respected the authority of the High Priest, Ananias, whom Paul did not know
was the High Priest, when he ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth.
Paul called Ananias a whitewashed wall for being a hypocrite.

They told Paul that Anaias was the High Priest, and Paul repented of his comment.
(Ac 23:1-5)

There is no Biblical warrant for this Hebrew translation of Mt 23:2-3 which disagrees
with its original language, Greek.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Good scripture you present. This scriptreu reads true and doesn't read 'made of necessity changes (plural) also of the law.' Jesus said nothing would be changed. Not one thing. So in short, there is "a" change via the tribe of Judah.:)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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yes i was trying to say if we try to do Good we would always fail that is why we need to seek and rely on God only
Clear this up for me Josh, do you mean if we try to do good under our own power? OR do you mean in any case when we try to do good.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Does grace nullify the law?
God forbid.
As was previously pointed out, the gentiles(non-believers) have a law unto themselves. (Romans 2:14-16)
But God has torn the partition between His Holiness and mankind. (Called Jesus)
This is a spirit reality in the life of the believer on the finished work of the cross.
The life is in the blood, and His blood changes those who call upon His name.
- No room for boasting.
- -The life is in the blood.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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i dont disagree, but if one is truly walking in the Spirit their actions will be in line with the Law, I can hionestly say out of all the "spirit" walking people I have met, that didnt look into the Law only a literall handful actually matched their actions with what the Law perscribes.

myself, I HAVE A BOOK IN FRONT OF ME that tells me how Yahweh wants me to behave, why not read it?
For those in Christ how God wants them to behave is written on their hearts by the Holy Spirit.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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this is what FULFILLMENT truly means, this is what is meant when it said God came to fulfill the commandments, when someone receives christ they receive that fulfillment of the laws, how you may ask, by the rebirth, i know your probably fed up of me talking about myself and how i was but i really want you to see what i mean, before i was like this before i knew God, i did exactly what the bible said i would do because i was a gentile, who by nature does the things contained in the law, which means i would covet and not have any care about doing it, i would look at every woman and covet, i would say the lord's name in vain, i hated certain people and had no love in me i live a lustful lifestyle and had no conviction about it i just didn't care because i thought it was normal.. BUT look at how God is amazing and every word of the bible is the truth God came to fulfill the law through his spirit, now look at this as God saved me everything just changed i would look at woman and literally cry and ask God to forgive them i couldn't stand to see woman dress like that, i couldn't stand to hate i only had love in me, now if that isn't fulfillment idk what is, HE DID EXACTLY what he said he came to do TO FULFILL, and that is exactly what happens to every true born again christian THAT IS WHY since the law is already fulfilled in us THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, AND WALK IN LOVE!
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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Clear this up for me Josh, do you mean if we try to do good under our own power? OR do you mean in any case when we try to do good.
well i was trying to say like if we take things in our own hands and do our own will, like sometime i would say i'm going on the streets and talk to everyone i see about God, see? that would be me doing my own thing but we must be led by the spirit to do these things, if God wants us to talk to someone he would tell us to do that, this has happen to me once, i just felt this need in my heart to go this certain location i couldn't explain it, but i did just that and went where i was being led to go and as i got there somewhere came up to me and started talking to me and ask me how i got changed and they want to change like how i did also, now that is being led by the spirit and i was able to tell that person my testimony
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Originally Posted by just-me

In reading the comments made by all that are here, I see something that I believe all would agree on. If we can’t agree, then I can clearly understand why we have these differences of how God works in our personal lives. The following is what works for me.

1.Works of righteousness without first believing in the salvation of Christ Jesus, and the giving of His Holy Spirit, are vanity, and worthless

2.After receiving the gift of eternal life, the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to recognize the immense love of God toward us.

3.By the Holy Spirit, we understand that the flesh, and old nature continues to raise its ugly head, and we have a battle within ourselves, wanting to love God, as He desires.

4.We have entered into a relationship with God, through Christ Jesus, and know, if our old nature has its way, we will be separated from Him until we ask for forgiveness, and be conquerors of the old nature through Him.

5.As we walk in the path of salvation, we will be conformed into His image and likeness.


6. Paul died daily and we are also given that strength to fight. We continue to pick up our cross daily, and follow, day by day, doing the works of the Holy Spirit, and being cleaned up as God has predestined.



If it is brought to our attention that we are doing wrong, and we haven't the desire to change our ways, we are flipping God off (in short).

Romans 6:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid.
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 17:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

A friendship flourishes with mutual understanding. When a person does their own thing with their friends disapproval, that persons friend will not participate in what they disapprove of, henceforth the relationship is lost until there can be a reconciliation.

A few thoughts.

A father/son relationship. - The son goes against the fathers wishes.. are they now separated?

Are you sure one who falls to temptation has no desire to change their ways? It would seem paul would disagree with this (rom 7)

Even in your friend example. Would they not still relate in other areas? or is their relationship severed completely?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I see it slightly different, in that Jesus is addressing to them about what He was saying. So the things Moses wrote would be clearly connect to what Jesus was speaking, and teaching. Jesus was clearly, in my opinion, saying that the Pharisees didn't understand the truth that Moses recorded about Him. From what I have read in the law, starting at Passover, and the temple worship, would clearly relate to Jesus. This would relate to the serpent lifted up, as the rock was hit so they could drink, why Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land, and so on.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus also questioned Nicodemus because he didn't understand being born again. After all, Nicodemus was a scholar of the law and the prophets, a ruler of the Jews.

John 3:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
They are connected all the way from the fall of Adam and lead to Christ our savior from the flesh that in no way can ever please God. Yes one has to be born again and this can only happen from God, through the cross, a gift to all those that believe God does just love them so much that:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Why did he die for us? to do what? to give us new life in the Spirit? Yet first before this can be we need to be seen as holy right from God the Father, yes, who knows no sin, Christ either did take it all or he did not and then if he did not thern the cross is made void, yes or no?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


As john 3 is so very clear on, that we can't see the kingdom without being born again, and he said that he came to do this, did he not?
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
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Yaaqob 2:18, "Yes, a man may say: You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works!"

Isayah 29:13, "Therefore Yahweh said: Because these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their reverence to Me is taught by the precept of men."
That would none other than the unbelievers yes?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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i agree and I also want to add that *I BELIEVE* someone who says they believe but still walks in the ways Yahweh says not to, does not really believe, they might believe that He exist, but they dont really believe, if they believed they would do. and im not singling anyone out here.
Agreed. . .true saving faith obeys. . .they have counterfeit faith.

my whole life i have been a so called "christian" but continued to walk against what the Scriptures said, going to church and never hearing ssin condemmed, just its ok your saved! but never once: Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you"

It was not until I studied the Scriptures for about 4 years with NO outside influence, just Scripture and prayer that I actually changed. all those years I dont think I ever really accepted the Messiah, I did the "repeat after me prayer" but now i can see a difference in who I am, and im more a peace and joy than ever,
HALLELUYAH!!!

and I want all to caome to this place and even surpass it,
A testimony to why we should know the Scriptures for ourselves.

thats why i speak obedience and seriousness, I have been cleansed, the Messiah has done His part noe I have to do my part through the Spirit of Yahweh.
Yes, brother, the operative phrase being "through the power of the Spirit," not by my own self-effort.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
yes i was trying to say if we try to do Good we would always fail that is why we need to seek and rely on God only
the danger comes when we try to do good and think we have succeed. That is when satan comes in and twists our minds, and we have bought into his lie.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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In reading the comments made by all that are here, I see something that I believe all would agree on. If we can’t agree, then I can clearly understand why we have these differences of how God works in our personal lives. The following is what works for me.

1.Works of righteousness without first believing in the salvation of Christ Jesus, and the giving of His Holy Spirit, are vanity, and worthless

2.After receiving the gift of eternal life, the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to recognize the immense love of God toward us.

3.By the Holy Spirit, we understand that the flesh, and old nature continues to raise its ugly head, and we have a battle within ourselves, wanting to love God, as He desires.

4.We have entered into a relationship with God, through Christ Jesus, and know, if our old nature has its way, we will be separated from Him until we ask for forgiveness, and be conquerors of the old nature through Him.

5.As we walk in the path of salvation, we will be conformed into His image and likeness.

6. Paul died daily and we are also given that strength to fight. We continue to pick up our cross daily, and follow, day by day, doing the works of the Holy Spirit, and being cleaned up as God has predestined.
That also works for me.

7. To know what is correct, we understand that we should study God's Word, to show ourselves what is acceptable in the sight of God
For me, study of God's word is to know personally God who reveals himself there.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Originally Posted by just-me

I like that comparison of the seed and the Son.
Actually, the seed is the word of God, the gospel, preached.
You like the comparison too........ cool:rolleyes:
 
Mar 4, 2013
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They are connected all the way from the fall of Adam and lead to Christ our savior from the flesh that in no way can ever please God. Yes one has to be born again and this can only happen from God, through the cross, a gift to all those that believe God does just love them so much that:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Why did he die for us? to do what? to give us new life in the Spirit? Yet first before this can be we need to be seen as holy right from God the Father, yes, who knows no sin, Christ either did take it all or he did not and then if he did not thern the cross is made void, yes or no?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


As john 3 is so very clear on, that we can't see the kingdom without being born again, and he said that he came to do this, did he not?
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I look at this like a trial in a court room, when a person has to pay for extortion or pay a fine. Jesus says, hear is the payment, the defendant is free from the debt.

It's like a child that is kidnapped, and the big brother pays the ransom, and gets the child back for His parents sake. And God says "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."