What Laws are still valid to christians

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Amen, What he abolished is the penalty which was required for ALL who disobeyed the law (spiritual death) and thus made it so God could deal with us as a father does a son. Not as a judge who is forced to enforce his judgment.

That is the wall which was abolished.

I think Paul said it best.

col. 2 : 8 - 19 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

the barrier, or wall which was between us

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Read his words again. . .what part of the Law did you not understand?

". . .will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Mt 5:18)

And everything in the Law has been accomplished (fulfilled) by and in him.

Therefore, it has been drastically changed:
no more Levitical priesthood,
no more righteousness by law-keeping,
no more condemnation for imperfect law-keeping,
no more sacrifices,
no more ceremonial laws of food, defilement and cleansings,
no more Sinaitic (Old) Covenant because it was based on the law
which was based on the Levitical priesthood, which no longer exists.

And it has not failed, it has been fulfilled, in and by Christ Jesus.

That is NT Christianity.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Josh321 said:

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Any righteousness which comes via the law, From a person who is saved or not. Is ones OWN righteounsess. It is not the righteousness of God. because it is from self. not God.

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Prophecies are not the Law.

Until everything is accomplished in the Law, it will not pass away. (Mt 5:18)

It has been accomplished, in and by Christ Jesus.

Those who argue that the law has not changed and is still the same.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

it can show us the kind of person Yahweh wants us to be.

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."

Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."

No it can not

The law says, Do not commit adultry

The law does not say why, It does not say how.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

If you had faith, You would not do this. This is what James says.

Come on now. Even you should understand this.

How can one say I have faith in someone, Yet never listens or does what the one he claims to have faith in says. He would prove he was a liar. and did not have faith in him at all (his faith was dead.)

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

Elin said:

you are ignoring part of the Scripture.

Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill."

Also He said twice He did not come to DESTIORY, since when is fulfill mean do away?

I came to be righteos so you could use it as a excuse to sin! NO!

Is all righteousness done away?

Mattithyah 3:15, "But Yahshua answered, saying to him: Allow this now; for this is proper for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted Him."

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

homwardbound said:

Do you know whether the party in question has ever expressed his belief that we are not under the New Covenant at this time, because it's not in effect until the "millennial kingdom of the Jews"?

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

FULFILL? ? ?

Lets break this down

17Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to establish them. – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill/establish them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Acts 3:18, “But those things which Yahweh foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that the Messiah must suffer, He has fulfilled this.”

Mattithyah 1:21-23, “And she will give birth to a Son and you will call His Name YAHSHUA; (Yahweh is Salvation); for Yahweh will save His people from their sins. Now all this was done to fulfill what Yahweh had spoken through the prophet (Isayah 7:14), saying: Behold a virgin will conceive, and bear a Son, and will bring forth the sign IMMANUYAH-which means that Yahweh Of Hosts Is With Us.

Matt 2:15, “And remained there until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what Yahweh had spoken by the prophet (Hosheyah 11:1) saying: from Egypt I have called My Son.”

Matt 2:17, “Then what was spoken by Yeremayh (Jeremiah 31:15) the prophet was fulfilled; a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were no more.”

Matt 2:23, “And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets (Zecharyah 3:8 & 6:12); He will be called a Nazarene.”

Matt 4:14-16, “To fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (9:1-2), saying; the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Yardan, in Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light; they who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them the Light has shined.”

Matt 8:17, “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (53:5), saying: He was bruised for our iniquities, and by His stripes we are healed.”

Matt 12:17-20, “That it would be fulfilled what was spoken through Isayah (42:1-3) the prophet, saying: Behold! My Servant Whom I have chosen! My Elect One in Whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He will not cry, nor lift up His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; until He brings forth judgment in truth.”

Matt 13:14-15, “And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah (6:9-10), which says: you will hear without ceasing, but you will not understand. You will see without ceasing, but you will not perceive . Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, or they will see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed.”

Matt 13:35, “ That it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 78:2) saying: I will open My mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings-which have been kept secret since the foundation of the world.”

Matt 21:4-5, “All this was done to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet (Zecharyah 9:9), saying: rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout for joy, O daughter of Yerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you. He is just and lowly, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

Matt 26:53-56, “Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, Who at once would give Me more than twelve legions of malakim? But then, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that all this must be so? At that same time, Yahshua said to the multitudes; have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you teaching in the sacred precincts, and you did not arrest Me. But all this has been done, so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples abandoned Him, and fled.”

Matt 27:9-10, “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zecharyah (11:12-13) the prophet, saying: so they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver, that considerable price that I was valued by them whom they of the children of Israyl had agreed to pay, and used them for the Potter’s Field, as Yahweh had appointed Me.”

Matt 27:35, “They nailed Him to a stake, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 22:18): they divide My garments among them, and for My tallit they cast lots.”

Mark 14:49, 15:28, Luke 1:20, 4:21, 21:22, 21:32, 24:44, Yach (Jn) 12:38-41), 13:18, 15:25, 17:12, 18:9, 18:32, 19:24, 19:24, 19:36
All these are amazing prophecies that our Messiah fulfilled.

17 Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to (fulfill) establish them. – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.” He said He came to “fulfill/establish them.”

homwardbound · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Got it thanks, the Law was never condemned, it is the flesh that was and is:
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I think strangled is a mistranslation

Acts 15:20, "But rather, write to them that they abstain from adefilements: such as godworship from all sexual impurity, from that which has been cooked with the blood still in it, and from bloodshed by violence"

That's not from the text in the Greek, in which the NT was written.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

FULFILL? ? ?

Lets break this down

17Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to establish them. – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill/establish them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Acts 3:18, “But those things which Yahweh foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that the Messiah must suffer, He has fulfilled this.”

Mattithyah 1:21-23, “And she will give birth to a Son and you will call His Name YAHSHUA; (Yahweh is Salvation); for Yahweh will save His people from their sins. Now all this was done to fulfill what Yahweh had spoken through the prophet (Isayah 7:14), saying: Behold a virgin will conceive, and bear a Son, and will bring forth the sign IMMANUYAH-which means that Yahweh Of Hosts Is With Us.

Matt 2:15, “And remained there until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what Yahweh had spoken by the prophet (Hosheyah 11:1) saying: from Egypt I have called My Son.”

Matt 2:17, “Then what was spoken by Yeremayh (Jeremiah 31:15) the prophet was fulfilled; a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were no more.”

Matt 2:23, “And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets (Zecharyah 3:8 & 6:12); He will be called a Nazarene.”

Matt 4:14-16, “To fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (9:1-2), saying; the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Yardan, in Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light; they who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them the Light has shined.”

Matt 8:17, “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (53:5), saying: He was bruised for our iniquities, and by His stripes we are healed.”

Matt 12:17-20, “That it would be fulfilled what was spoken through Isayah (42:1-3) the prophet, saying: Behold! My Servant Whom I have chosen! My Elect One in Whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He will not cry, nor lift up His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; until He brings forth judgment in truth.”

Matt 13:14-15, “And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah (6:9-10), which says: you will hear without ceasing, but you will not understand. You will see without ceasing, but you will not perceive . Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, or they will see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed.”

Matt 13:35, “ That it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 78:2) saying: I will open My mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings-which have been kept secret since the foundation of the world.”

Matt 21:4-5, “All this was done to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet (Zecharyah 9:9), saying: rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout for joy, O daughter of Yerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you. He is just and lowly, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

Matt 26:53-56, “Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, Who at once would give Me more than twelve legions of malakim? But then, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that all this must be so? At that same time, Yahshua said to the multitudes; have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you teaching in the sacred precincts, and you did not arrest Me. But all this has been done, so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples abandoned Him, and fled.”

Matt 27:9-10, “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zecharyah (11:12-13) the prophet, saying: so they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver, that considerable price that I was valued by them whom they of the children of Israyl had agreed to pay, and used them for the Potter’s Field, as Yahweh had appointed Me.”

Matt 27:35, “They nailed Him to a stake, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 22:18): they divide My garments among them, and for My tallit they cast lots.”

Mark 14:49, 15:28, Luke 1:20, 4:21, 21:22, 21:32, 24:44, Yach (Jn) 12:38-41), 13:18, 15:25, 17:12, 18:9, 18:32, 19:24, 19:24, 19:36
All these are amazing prophecies that our Messiah fulfilled.

17 Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to (fulfill) establish them. – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.” He said He came to “fulfill/establish them.”

He did fulfill

1. He fulfilled the sacrificial by his own sacrifice (died once)
2. He fulfilled the moral, by not breaking one aspect of the law. He did it for us, because we were unable, thus we could never be made righteous by the moral law
3. He fulfilled the ceremonial. The spoke of him. As a teaching tool. So we would know him when he came.

We can't fulfill

1. We can't sacrifice anything to make ourselves right (this would include moral goodness, Religious ceremony or sacrament or acts of worship, or causing ourself pain)
2. We can not be morally good. nore can the law tell us how to be. Only by the righteousness of Christ in us can we even be seen by God as moral people. It is not our moral goodness, it is Gods)
3. The ceremonial (circumcision, and all the festivals etc) were already completed. they do us no good..

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

homwardbound said:

now this is in the Spirit of truth!

eternally-gratefull · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

so then,, to question you.

why are you still in the flesh trying to do what Christ himself already did in the flesh, which you were told you could not do?

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Elin said:

yeah we all did take part in the man dying, for our sins caused it to be, so we could all have mercy.

Irrelevant.

You don't even understand the OT correctly.

Only the priest offered sacrifice.

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

so do we

a) jump into the mire with the swine

b) let our conscious through the Spirit be our moral guide

c) let the Instructions of Yahweh through the Spirit be our moral guide

d)other(write answer here) _________________________________________________________________________

Elin · Oct 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

"The day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by the fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. . .everything will be destroyed in this way." (2Pe 3:10-11)

homwardbound · Oct 12, 2013

Josh321 said:

I don't think you have done anything wrong, nor the others either, are we not all expressing what we see in each of our walks?
I see what you are saying from scripture and as well, what others are saying too/
So let us see if we all can get on the same page here/
Is any Law condemned by Christ? Just some or all?
Is it not the weak flesh that is condemned that can't obey love?
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

why am I trying to be the kind of person Yahweh wants all men to be, and listening and seeking to obey what Yahshua said?

because I am cleansed by the blood of Yahshua, lead by the Spirit of Yahweh, and love to do as Yahweh commands with great joy.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Romans 7:12-14, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But
in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly
sinful. For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

1 Kepha 1:13-21, "Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the undeserved pardon that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Yahshua Messiah. As obedient children, do not conform to the former lusts you had when you lived in ignorance; But as He Who called you is holy, so you also become holy in all your conduct; Because it is written Be holy, for I am holy. And if you call on the Father, Who, without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence; Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your forefathers; But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you; Who through Him we do believe in Yahweh, Who raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in Yahweh."

2 Kepha 2:4-11, "For if Yahweh did not spare the malakim who asinned, but 1will cast
them into the abyss, delivering them into chains of darkness to be reserved for judgment; And did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of brighteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the unrighteous; those who were Lawbreakers; And condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, and in this way made them an example for those who afterward would live unrighteously; But delivered righteous Lot, who was deeply grieved by the filthy conduct of the wicked, For that righteous man, dwelling among them, was tortured in his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds--Yahweh knows how to deliver the righteous out of temptations; trials, and to reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished; And especially those who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise authority. Presumptuous and self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, Whereas malakim, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before Yahweh."

because I dont wish to insult the Spirit of mercey by continuing in sin

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Hebrews 10:26-30
"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation,
unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

and quite frankly, I feel terrible when I sin, and want to walk in the way Yahweh wants me to.

Hizikyah · Oct 12, 2013

Elin said:

are you saying Isayah was wrong or this is a different topic?

also a better translation is:

Young's Literal Translation
and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

works is from 2041. ergon

ergon: work

Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

What Laws are still valid to christians

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