What Laws are still valid to christians

[Hizikyah]

im mind boggled how everyone can say do not kill, do not stel, love your neighbor, etc is evil and im attacked for wanting to follow these

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure,
bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

 

[homwardbound]

It comes down to a question of "How are we saved"?

By our Righteous living of keeping Gods Law perfectly?

or...

By the Perfect Sacrifice and Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?


In Christ is all of our needs for Salvation. In Christ is our Righteousness.

If I were strong and able to keep His Law perfectly I could stand before Him by my own righteousness. But I am not strong. I am weak and not able to keep His Law perfectly. This causes me to be humble and meek before Him.

How could I, being weak, try to preach the Law when I can't keep it my own self? I can't. But what I can do is tell you how I myself was saved. Even though I couldn't keep the Royal Law perfectly the Lord Jesus Christ saved me from it. From the condemnation of not being perfect before Him. He Loves me anyway. And that is the mystery.

so in all honesty, in response to this amazing salvation, how does one respond and do? Are we by this to be dead to Law or flesh, by belief?
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 

[homwardbound]

brother Josh before you go plese give me your view on this verse? Is iniquity not "without Law" and is not Yahshua casting people off for iniquity?

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Even though the Law is not condemned and flesh is, that is done through the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ were we are by belief dead to flesh sin that is weak, through the death, then alive through the resurrection and secured in the reception of the Holy Ghost, this is true is it not?

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by Elin
That is a desperate strawman.

And now we see what force fitting NT Christianity into Messianic Judaism leads to. . .

I don't sacrifice, or offer Jesus' sacrifice; no one sacrifices or offers Jesus' sacrifice

but JESUS HIMSELF.

Neither I, nor anyone else but Christ Jesus is the High Priest.

That is NT Christianity.


Originally Posted by Hizikyah yeah we all did take part in the man dying, for our sins caused it to be, so we could all have mercy.

Irrelevant.

You don't even understand the OT correctly.

Only the priest offered sacrifice.

I think Hizikyah is referring to the sacrifice Jesus gave of Himself and the sacrifice that we bring to Christ daily.
Leviticus 5:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]It is a trespass offering: he hath certainly trespassed against the LORD.
Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Romans 12:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

 

[homwardbound]

im talking about the Law of Yahweh that Yahshua said would NEVER PASS

Would that not be the Love of God that goes on forever?
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:13[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]There are three things that remain—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

 

[homwardbound]

how can the Law of Yahweh be in someones heart when they hate it and call it an evil old curse?

The Law of love, God's is spread abroad in the believer's heart, that is filled in Christ the author and finisher of ones Faith.

 

[homwardbound]

the modern usage of "born again" is a non Scriptual thing

in Romans 8 Shaul is talking about:

Romans 8:14, "For as many as are oled by the Spirit of Yahweh, they are the sons of Yahweh!"

John 3:7 so don’t be surprised at my statement that you must be born again

 

[Hizikyah]

Even though the Law is not condemned and flesh is, that is done through the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ were we are by belief dead to flesh sin that is weak, through the death, then alive through the resurrection and secured in the reception of the Holy Ghost, this is true is it not?

i agree but yu leve out a key part, guided by the Spirit of Yahweh to no longer live in sin, but walk in Yahweh's ways!

 

[Elin]

This is the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers, which you deny,
and try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism.
But Jesus is neither added to nor fitted into Judaism.

He is all, or he is nothing.
These are his terms, not ours.

"try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism."

It seems you dont understand what Judaisim is. It does NOT FOLLOW YAHWEH"S LAW, it follows the law of the pharisess as the ultimate voice. I dont say we are saved or justified by works, but I do say faith without works is dead. I speak obedience to Yahweh, not obedience to the rabbis or any man.

So your distinction is between Judaism and Messianic Judaism, the former being governed by
the laws of the Pharisees, and the latter being governed by the Torah.

Neither is NT Christianity.

Judaism rejects Christ, and
Messianic Judaism tries to force fit the revelation of Christ (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, into the Torah.

Hebrews 3:18-19, "And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who
did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

my take is that these men that walked with Yahshua observed
faith and obedience as one in the same, and i think this verse shows that.

Agreed.

Disobedience manifests unbelief.

Not to obey the gospel; i.e., Mk 1:16, is not to believe the gospel (Ro 10:16; 2Th 1:8; 1Pe 4:17).

 

[homwardbound]

Most definitely.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: James 2:8​

which is the fulfillment of all Law and therefore since God does this through me now, I am safe and secure in Father's arms, thanks to Jesus's sacrifice and last shedding of blood for me and all that do believe

 

[homwardbound]

That simply says that the flesh is not able to be subject to the law of GOD, and cannot please GOD. That is why the law is useless as a means of righteousness. However, those who walk according to the spirit are not under the law.

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law [of Moses]. Galatians 5:18​

If one is led by the Spirit of God, then one must first consider themselves dead to flesh sin
John 3:7 so don’t be surprised at my statement that you must be born again
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Elin]

certianly i have poor delivery,

Your delivery is no worse than mine.

but how do my words stray from the words of Yahshua?

The whole NT is the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2),
given through the NT writers.

Your words stray from Jesus' NT revelation in Eph 2:15-16.

Your words stray from the many statements in Jesus' NT revelation that he is God, given here.

 

[Hizikyah]

So your distinction is between Judaism and Messianic Judaism, the former being governed by
the laws of the Pharisees, and the latter being governed by the Torah.

Neither is NT Christianity.

Judaism rejects Christ, and
Messianic Judaism tries to force fit the revelation of Christ (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, into the Torah.


Agreed.

Disobedience manifests unbelief.

Not to obey the gospel; i.e., Mk 1:16, is not to believe the gospel (Ro 10:16; 2Th 1:8; 1Pe 4:17).

i dont know much about messanic judaisim, but i do know they call each other rabbi and do jewish traditions taht are not of the Scriptures, IDK how much judasim is in MJ but i know its not 100% Scriptual.

 

[homwardbound]

SURE IS!

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

1785. entolén
​

Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

1 Yahchanan 2:3-7, "Now by this we do know that we know Him: If we keep His Laws. He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, eand the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His Law, in him truly is the love of Yahweh perfected: by this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked. Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

1785. entolén
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

"He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar"

"I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

the Scriptures call those who dont keep the Laws that are from the beginning a LIAR.

And these are the Laws of Love from God through Son thanks

 

[Hizikyah]

Your delivery is no worse than mine.


The whole NT is the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers.

Your words stray from Jesus' NT revelation in Eph 2:15-16.



as Yahshua told us:

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must loveYahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 5You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

[/QUOTE]

we have different views of what EP 2:15-16 abolished...

 

[Hizikyah]

i want to say 100% I believe in true interpretation of Yahweh;s Law, as in the way Yahshua followed it, no other way that allows myself to cut corners or justify my sin, not at all.

 

[Elin]

yes absolute truth here elin, so am I now to just take it for granted and go and harm my neighbor seeing how it is that through Christ I am forgiven, as the carnal Corinthians did? God forbid right Sister? And is why 1 Cor. letter was written to them from Paul

One is forgiven if one is repentant.
Repentance is possible only in those who are born again.

If one is not repentant, one's faith is counterfeit.

 

[homwardbound]

Absolutely.

For although we are living in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not merely human, but powerful to God for the tearing down of fortresses, tearing down arguments and all pride that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5​

And right after that:
2 Corinthians 10:6 and having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

So therefore, I myself even if I did obey perfectly being born again, I still have no right to punish anyone for their dis obedience, seeing that is not me that comes to obey perfectly ever. Rather it is God himself living through me just as God did through Son Christ. Is the Holy Ghost of God not the same Holy Ghost that led Christ that he has freely given us to follow after his ascension?

 

[Elin]

Again. we must ask this

1. Can the law make us righteous - Saved? No
2. Can the law make us righteous - (morally good) No

the law can do niether..

Even if not for the flesh, The law would not have the ability to make us righteous. It does not have that power. All it can do is show us how weak we are. In that it has power.

The law was never given to make righteous.

That was a misunderstanding of the Jewish teachers of the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of Yahweh."