What must I do to be saved

Deade · Jul 18, 2018

You assume your conjecture is true and base your conclusion on that belief.

The lesson taught in Heb 12:14-17 has nothing to do with "losing salvation". Not every record in Scripture is to be viewed as "watch out – you'll lose salvation if you're not careful".

The lesson in Heb 12 has to do with the root of bitterness springing up and trouble you (Heb 12:15) due to our failure to adhere to the instruction of God.

We can be very foolish and our foolishness lands us in a heap of trouble. As we are chastened by God and fellowship is reestablished and thereby have the peaceable fruit of righteousness restored, we still carry the remembrance of our foolishness in our memory. And sometimes, our foolishness can result in drastic changes to our lives which we have to live with for the rest of our days on this earth.

We can repent of our actions, be restored to fellowship with Father, but still have to live with the consequence of our actions. And I'm not talking about losing salvation. I'm talking about some foolishness we engage in that results in lifelong results.

This is just an example and I do not know of anyone this has happened to, and I hope/pray it is received as just an example:

How about a man or woman who is married and has an affair which results in a pregnancy? That is something someone has to live with for the rest of their life. That act of sin can affect a person for the rest of his/her life, as well as a child born under such circumstances, and extended families of all parties involved.

Now, go back and read Genesis 27. Isaac received the blessing of the birthright. When Esau went in to Isaac, he learned that Jacob had already received the blessing.

Esau then accused Jacob of taking away his birthright (when he knew full well he had sold it). He also accused Jacob of taking his blessing (Gen 27:36).

Esau then asked Isaac for a blessing, and Isaac did not reject him (Gen 27:39-40).

Please note also that God gave Esau the land of mount Seir (Deut 2:5).

So we see that this section of Scripture does not deal with God rejecting someone who is repentant, and the person somehow "loses" salvation. Heb 12 deals with consequences we must live with when we behave foolishly. We will live with the error of our ways, just like Esau had to live with the consequences after having sold his birthright.

I see your point about bitterness and chastisement. After God let my health deteriorate while in the mission field, I got bitter, really bitter. I withdrew from the Lord for a while and became very ineffective as a witness. Then the Lord saw to it to put me with family, which is really hard when you are the baby (youngest). I didn't have much honor with my family. I still believed everything God had taught me but I couldn't witness for a long time, even though I had gotten the desire back. I guess that was my chastisement. One thing, I am a lot more humble than I was.

OstrichSmiling · Jul 18, 2018

Works do not save.
Doing God's work helps save the world by example. We're led to do good things in service to God. If we say we're Christian and we're the same old person as before saying that, we're just someone saying we're Christian. It means nothing. And it sure doesn't fool God.

Jackson123 · Jul 18, 2018

PennEd said:

The seed is the word of God, and Jesus is the word of God

So Jesus is the seed.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Deade · Jul 18, 2018

OstrichSmiling said:

You are talking about unbelief here, and no it doesn't fool God. If you have true God ordained belief, nothing will take it from you. God will use that belief for works if you are counted worthy.

Ralph- · Jul 18, 2018

reneweddaybyday said:

What do you mean the passage is not talking about salvation?

14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; 16that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

Read it. It's right there. No sanctification means you no see the Lord. It is indeed a salvation issue at stake here.

reneweddaybyday said:

What are you talking about?

"14Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; 16that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

What part of "he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears" do you not understand? Of course he's dealing with the issue of wanting to repent but not being allowed to come back to the inheritance.

kingofkings · Jul 18, 2018

mailmandan said:

Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) As Jesus was accustomed, He used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibolism here, but believing in Christ, as He makes abundantly clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language. Compare for example the following two verses:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life” (verse 47).

“He who eats this bread will live forever” (verse 58).

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

“Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 40).

“Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (verse 54).

John 6 does not afford any support to the false Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is an emphatic statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

What a load of crap.

The first part of your answer is correct!
Eat my flesh is correct.
Drink my blood most get that one wrong, to tell you the truth I Haven't seen one get it right.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 19, 2018

Deade said:

I love the section of Scripture in 1 Peter 5:6-11:

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I love that God continues to work within us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us as we go through our trials and tribulations in this life. I think we focus so much on our dilemma that we take our eyes off Him and we don't realize He's working within us to help us through.

I also love that He doesn’t tell us exactly how long we’re going to "suffer". He just says after that ye have suffered a while. So however long our trial lasts, He continues to work within us and He brings us through it all.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 19, 2018

Ralph- said:

The Greek word which means to see with the bodily eye is blepō. Blepō is used in 1 Cor 13:12 For now we blepō through a glass darkly; but then face to face

We will blepō (see with our eyes) face to face at some point in the future.

The word "see" in Heb 12:14 is the Greek word opsetai.

Opsetai is more along the lines of perception.

As we live our lives in accordance with the instruction in Scripture, we grow closer and closer to God. Our relationship with God becomes vital to us. We know when we stumble because we are no longer close to Him and we miss that wonderful fellowship with our Heavenly Father. When we stumble, we no longer opsetai God. Until we repent of our foolishness in leaving Him, we run from God like Adam did when he fell.

Ralph said:

I told you and you continue to insist that this section of Scripture deals with salvation as opposed to living out our lives on this earth, our walk with God in this lifetime.

If you want to make it about salvation and your conjecture that the born again one can lose his/her salvation to the point where God rejects them even when they repent and seek forgiveness, then your conclusion fails because Esau never was a believer. You would have to show that Esau was a believer, then became an "ex-believer", then tried to repent but the Lord rejected him.

The lesson in this section of Scripture is that we need to be careful in our walk in this life because there are things that could happen that we will have to live with for the rest of our lives.

I just thought of a good example from Scripture.

Think of the things that Paul did before he was born again. He went into believer's houses, dragged them out and threw them in prison.

When that wonderful believer, Stephen, was stoned to death, Paul consented to his death.

These are things Paul carried with him in his memory after he was born again. When Paul was born again, God didn't take the memory of what Paul had done from Paul's mind. In Acts 22:20 Paul mentioned these things he had done, even though in Phil 3 Paul mentioned that in his press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, he forgets those things which are behind. Those are things Paul did that he had to live with in his memory.

preacher4truth · Jul 19, 2018

kingofkings said:

Accept for yourself, correct?

ForestGreenCook · Jul 19, 2018

plaintalk said:

When we have been born of the Spirit, we still carry the baggage of our fleshly nature with us, which, at times, we yield to our fleshly nature, which put us in a state of sin until we repent of that sin. Paul talks about his struggle with his fleshly nature in Rom 7:18-21, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh), dwelleth no good thing for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good, I find not. For the good that I would, I do not, but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 has only one nature dwelling within him, and does not have the warfare that the born again person has. We that have been born of the Spirit are not always as good as some think they are because, at times, we lose our battle with our fleshly nature, as Paul indicated. I hope this clarifies it. When we at times lose that battle it causes us also to lose our fellowship with God, until we repent. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will not repent, because he does not know anything about God's spiritual laws and if someone tries to tell him about them, the words are but foolishness to him.

kingofkings · Jul 19, 2018

Jackson123 said:

The seed is the word of God, and Jesus is the word of God

So Jesus is the seed.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

bla/bla/bla

fredoheaven · Jul 20, 2018

Ralph- said:

Umm...as already stated, scholars of high degree do not agree on the use of Greek Verbal tenses. IN FACT, you have just cited an English/Greek grammar discord and see for yourself to what I bolded and underlined. Your Greek verbal tenses has no bearing on the English tenses particularly in 1 Corinthian 15:1-2 so that Greek verbal tenses cannot be trusted otherwise you belief is in vain. Your Greek verbal tenses is perhaps your last straw and why it cannot be trusted in such a passage of 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 simply because as demonstrated, it contradicts Paul teaching on how to get saved. The bottom line, you are saved by believing the gospel once not “continue to believe in order to be saved”.

Ralph- · Jul 20, 2018

fredoheaven said:

1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved (present tense), if you hold fast (present tense) the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

From https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002 :
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense

It doesn't matter how many times you've walked the aisle in the past to get saved. If you are not believing right now this very day, you are not saved right now this very day. You can not stop believing and still be saved. If you stop believing that is when you stop being saved.

Paul said in the passage I quoted above that you are presently saved IF you are presently holding fast the word of the gospel. The condition for being saved today is that you are believing today.

Ralph- · Jul 20, 2018

fredoheaven said:

You don't seem to realize that what this is saying is if the verbs 'saved' and 'hold fast' in 1 Corinthians 15:2 were past tense in Greek they may be rendered in the present tense in English. That's fine, for when and where that applies. But these verbs are in the present tense in Greek in 1 Corinthians 15:2. So the exception you noted above doesn't even apply to this verse.

Latour · Jul 20, 2018

kingofkings said:

What does it mean to drink His blood than to partake of His life force by entering into Him?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 20, 2018

kingofkings said:

as you said, what a load of crap.

Eat my flesh and drink my blood is talking about the same thing, And he said literally chew or gnaw it it

Jesus said he is the bread which comes down from heaven, to offer eternal life. He said over and over, whoever BELIEVES in him will never die, never hunger or thirst, and will be risen on the last day. He finally said we must basically drink and drink from his body and blood (basically don;t just taste it, But chew on it, and learn it to understand it) and whoever does will receive all the things he promised.

As MMD showed. It is the words he speaks which we must chew on, they are what gives life.

ForestGreenCook · Jul 20, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Once you have eternal life you do not lose it, John 6:39, And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day. When the children of God are disobedient they lose their fellowship with God until they repent. When they are in a state of disobedience, they are said to be dead (from fellowship with God) until they repent. Repentance is not the cause of your eternal salvation, but is evidence that you are saved. The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 will never repent, because he can not discern the law of God, until God puts his Spirit within him. James 5:19-20, Man can never get credit for saving a person eternally, but God does give him credit for convincing a person to repent and save him from his non-fellowship with God. Saving, salvation, saved, save, according to Greek translation means "to deliver", and most of God's children apply all of those terms to eternal salvation. Unless you learn to tell the difference in those terms, you will not get the scriptures to harmonize.

justpassinthrough · Jul 20, 2018

ForestGreenCook said:

I find this post to be typical of those who promote OSAS.

Stating opinion then "tagging" their opinion with a scripture "reference", but no actual scripture, and no context.

Example:

There is not single scripture in your post, just a bunch of nonsense.

Go back and address my post's with all the scriptures I quoted and the points that I made that come directly and are the actual words of the scripture.

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

again

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

If someone does not have fellowship [communion; common union - intercourse] with Him, then by definition they have become lost.

James says it this way -

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save [l]a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner

Clear enough.

JPT

fredoheaven · Jul 21, 2018

Ralph- said:

Your first strike in this verbal tenses is to put Paul in contradictory statement using your very own recommendation, you have fallen to your own ditch. Strike 2, you keep your mercy seat on scholarship instead of the Saviour for you are relying where men of high degree disagree with other on this verbal tenses which you again brought this out in your citation and your belief/faith seems to me as in vain but i have a more sure word, strike 3 t is you who do the saving, this fall into a work salvation. One is enough, two is too much, three is strike out...

justpassinthrough · Jul 21, 2018

fredoheaven said:

Man's opinion with no scripture.

Those who obey His commandments are those who love.

Those who come to be in Christ by believing must remain in Christ or be cast into the fire and burned.

It's really comes down to believing.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, is no longer a believer.

It's one thing to be in Christ, it's another to remain in Christ.

We must obey His word, His teaching, His doctrine as Lord if we are to remain in Christ.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

His commandments are about loving God by loving His people.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5

If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

JPT

What must I do to be saved

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