What parts of Torah can we still keep today?

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LaurenTM

Guest
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 2:29 (KJV, MBM)
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.1 John 3:7 (KJV, MBM)

There is no righteous apart from Christ Jesus! Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God.

Let no man deceive you...you cannot earn nor keep salvation by following anything. You must follow Someone

Following 'parts' of the law, is like trying to glue together a broken object that once had usefulness, but now it no longer does ..the law was but a shadow of the reality, which is found in Christ

lawkeepers, sabbath keepers and Hebrew Roots and all the other groups that have sprung up under the deception they can somehow achieve greater holiness or righteousness, are deceived and in error
 
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eph610

Guest
lawkeepers, sabbath keepers and Hebrew Roots and all the other groups that have sprung up under the deception they can somehow achieve greater holiness or righteousness, are deceived and in error
We also have those on the grace side claiming things like you are not as holy as we are unless your women were full skirts, tie their hair up in a bun, never cut their hair, men never have long hair, no musical instruments in church, we are saved only by water baptism, Pastors must be in suits at all times, oh and my favorite.... blue jeans send women straight to hell with no chance for redemption and if they are wearing a flannel shirt, God's head will explode.

Then the charismaniacs that suggest we lose our salvation like car keys and earn it back again as quick as we find our car keys...that if you do not speak in tongues you are not really saved...

Then the certain protestant that claim God only hates the homosexual and hates people all the time and his love is only selective and can only be found when you are perfect

And on and on and on and on.....

Then the church has the gall to ask why the world think we are foolish, ignorant close minded and hate filled.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
We also have those on the grace side claiming things like you are not as holy as we are unless your women were full skirts, tie their hair up in a bun, never cut their hair, men never have long hair, no musical instruments in church, we are saved only by water baptism, Pastors must be in suits at all times, oh and my favorite.... blue jeans send women straight to hell with no chance for redemption and if they are wearing a flannel shirt, God's head will explode.

Then the charismaniacs that suggest we lose our salvation like car keys and earn it back again as quick as we find our car keys...that if you do not speak in tongues you are not really saved...

Then the certain protestant that claim God only hates the homosexual and hates people all the time and his love is only selective and can only be found when you are perfect

And on and on and on and on.....

Then the church has the gall to ask why the world think we are foolish, ignorant close minded and hate filled.
You have confused the "grace side" with the "legalism side".
 
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wvbeliever

Guest
The 10 commandments was a covenant between Moses and his generation and God after they came out of Egypt starting in Chapter 5 Deuteronomy 5:2-3 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. Moses speaks here that the Ten Commandments was for them of that time that was lead out of Egypt. But I encourage everyone to read the whole chapter though. Now going to Hebrews 9 verses 1-5.

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

Verse 4 "tables of the covenant" That was the 10 commandments . To show this true lets go back to Deuteronomy Chapter 9 this addresses that that are the same "tables" are the ones in Hebrews 9:4 flip to Deuteronomy 9:9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the "tables of the covenant" which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water: and Deuteronomy 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tables of stone, even the "tables of the covenant." Showing in both the new and old testament the 10 commandments are "the tables of the covenant." And the Ten Commandments was between Moses and His generation I encourage you to read all of those chapters in full. Now Jeremiah and Hebrews proves once again the Ten Commandments was for Moses and his generation.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

Hebrews 8:8-9 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Am I saying to forsake the OT no II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: All scripture is educational and valuable but it also has its place and time as well. The purpose of the Old Testament was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors the golden two. If we obey those two commands faithfully we will be upholding all that God requires of us. That is all we can do. Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. I Corinthians Chapter 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. If you don't have not love you are nothing and if someone doesn't know love they don't know God. I John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. Do everything because you love Lord Jesus.:D He has been there and done that and conquered all of that too!
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Yes what they practice is legalism, but what they preach outwardly is grace....
What you describe is legalists preaching legalism.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I think all Christians give "mental assent" that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's work as it is hard to do away with Eph 2:8-10 but it's what comes afterwards which reveals whether we understand that truth or not.

There are some that preach some form of legalism and it manifests in many different shapes and forms which in truth negate the truth that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work alone.

This is when conflict arises as legalism is anti-Christ in it's beliefs despite having the "appearance" of good but it denies the power of God for real transformation and denies the life that is in us in Christ. It exchanges the life of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit in us for what "we do" to attain and maintain righteousness. It's called a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religious mindset.
 
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KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Wow. Really???

What does Galatians 3:3 say????

You're the one that keeps bringing up being justified by the law. I keep telling you that's not what that verse says.

Maybe read it one more time even more carefully. Use the KJV...
Brother, what are you talking about? I've NEVER said you can be justified by the Law. Never! No one can. Attempting to be justified by the Law makes a mockery of Jesus' sacrifice. That's why I "liked" your quoting of Galatians 3:3; the verse is absolutely true!

No where in the chain of dialogue you and I had do I ever come close to saying I'm justified or made perfect by the law.
Grandpa, I must have missed your post where you recognized I've never said I'm justified by the law. I've always said the opposite, and I hope you can see that you were in error about myview of justification and the law.

Blessings,
 
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eph610

Guest
What you describe is legalists preaching legalism.
No I am not, you are not seeing the point. The very groups I mentioned all state that they are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ! All of them do and they all preach they are saved by grace, read their what I believe sections on website adn doctrinal statements.

Legalism of any kind is predicated on the misunderstanding of righteousness and how one is made righteous, not on the fact that grace is required for salvation. Any form of self righteousness turns into works based salvation efforts, but the core issue is not legalists preaching legalism to be saved. The core issue is the how people believe righteousness is obtained, which then deceives them into thinking if they do not attain right standing through effort they are lost. That is the outcome not the catalyst

Dress codes are not in the body to save people form their sins, they dress a certain way because they desire to be holy and righteous and have never been taught that righteousness is not personal-performance, it is position. The same for the Hebrew roots movement guys we debate.

If there needs to be a revival of anything, it is the proper teaching of how and when we obtain righteousness and that it is position and not personal-performance. Anything that takes away the finished and complete work of Jesus Christ is as filthy rags.

We teach and preach this in meetings and watched as the Holy Spirit has taken the veil of the hearts.

righteousness-consciousness is the single greatest part of the nearly to good to be true Gospel, that the enemy hides from many. His favorite religion is sin-consciousness and it is religion that comes to steal, kill and destroy.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
224
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No I am not, you are not seeing the point. The very groups I mentioned all state that they are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ! All of them do and they all preach they are saved by grace, read their what I believe sections on website adn doctrinal statements.

Legalism of any kind is predicated on the misunderstanding of righteousness and how one is made righteous, not on the fact that grace is required for salvation. Any form of self righteousness turns into works based salvation efforts, but the core issue is not legalists preaching legalism to be saved. The core issue is the how people believe righteousness is obtained, which then deceives them into thinking if they do not attain right standing through effort they are lost. That is the outcome not the catalyst

Dress codes are not in the body to save people form their sins, they dress a certain way because they desire to be holy and righteous and have never been taught that righteousness is not personal-performance, it is position. The same for the Hebrew roots movement guys we debate.

If there needs to be a revival of anything, it is the proper teaching of how and when we obtain righteousness and that it is position and not personal-performance. Anything that takes away the finished and complete work of Jesus Christ is as filthy rags.

We teach and preach this in meetings and watched as the Holy Spirit has taken the veil of the hearts.

righteousness-consciousness is the single greatest part of the nearly to good to be true Gospel, that the enemy hides from many. His favorite religion is sin-consciousness and it is religion that comes to steal, kill and destroy.
Love it.

Thanks!
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
No I am not, you are not seeing the point. The very groups I mentioned all state that they are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ! All of them do and they all preach they are saved by grace, read their what I believe sections on website adn doctrinal statements.

Legalism of any kind is predicated on the misunderstanding of righteousness and how one is made righteous, not on the fact that grace is required for salvation. Any form of self righteousness turns into works based salvation efforts, but the core issue is not legalists preaching legalism to be saved. The core issue is the how people believe righteousness is obtained, which then deceives them into thinking if they do not attain right standing through effort they are lost. That is the outcome not the catalyst

Dress codes are not in the body to save people form their sins, they dress a certain way because they desire to be holy and righteous and have never been taught that righteousness is not personal-performance, it is position. The same for the Hebrew roots movement guys we debate.

If there needs to be a revival of anything, it is the proper teaching of how and when we obtain righteousness and that it is position and not personal-performance. Anything that takes away the finished and complete work of Jesus Christ is as filthy rags.

We teach and preach this in meetings and watched as the Holy Spirit has taken the veil of the hearts.

righteousness-consciousness is the single greatest part of the nearly to good to be true Gospel, that the enemy hides from many. His favorite religion is sin-consciousness and it is religion that comes to steal, kill and destroy.

absolute key to our entire walk

we have nothing apart from what we have in Christ

this law keeping teaching is heresy...very dangerous and seductive...it is Galatians all over again...nothing new under the sun
 
Jul 1, 2016
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absolute key to our entire walk

we have nothing apart from what we have in Christ

this law keeping teaching is heresy...very dangerous and seductive...it is Galatians all over again...nothing new under the sun
"thou shalt have no other gods before me" is heresy??
you are outta your mind, ma'am.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
No I am not, you are not seeing the point. The very groups I mentioned all state that they are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ! All of them do and they all preach they are saved by grace, read their what I believe sections on website adn doctrinal statements.

Legalism of any kind is predicated on the misunderstanding of righteousness and how one is made righteous, not on the fact that grace is required for salvation. Any form of self righteousness turns into works based salvation efforts, but the core issue is not legalists preaching legalism to be saved. The core issue is the how people believe righteousness is obtained, which then deceives them into thinking if they do not attain right standing through effort they are lost. That is the outcome not the catalyst

Dress codes are not in the body to save people form their sins, they dress a certain way because they desire to be holy and righteous and have never been taught that righteousness is not personal-performance, it is position. The same for the Hebrew roots movement guys we debate.

If there needs to be a revival of anything, it is the proper teaching of how and when we obtain righteousness and that it is position and not personal-performance. Anything that takes away the finished and complete work of Jesus Christ is as filthy rags.

We teach and preach this in meetings and watched as the Holy Spirit has taken the veil of the hearts.

righteousness-consciousness is the single greatest part of the nearly to good to be true Gospel, that the enemy hides from many. His favorite religion is sin-consciousness and it is religion that comes to steal, kill and destroy.
You're not seeing my point.

Even the legalists here on this forum will say we are saved by grace through faith......but. And everything they really believe comes after the "but". If those you referenced were actually on the "grace side" they wouldn't have added a "but".
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
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you are out of your mind.
peace without law? try Chicago at midnight.

besides, you are making your jesus out to be a liar.
he said he came not to destroy the law, but later destroyed the law.
my Savior is not a liar.
You are right mike...there is more than one Jesus in the ring Mat 24v4,5, but people just ignore that...never asking if they could be deceived. Scripture says the whole world is being deceived and that also would never seem to apply to them, always somebody else.
Until they admit to having been deceived they will be happy to follow imposters.
 
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eph610

Guest
"thou shalt have no other gods before me" is heresy??
you are outta your mind, ma'am.
I don't need a stone with this commandment on it to remind me there are no other gods before him. I walk out the fact there are no other gods before him because of my love for him for what he did for me and by living for him every day...you know love the Lord they God with all heart,soul and strength



why does this cause head explosions for you?
 
Jul 1, 2016
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I dont need a stone with this commandment on it to remind me there are no other gods before him. I walk out the fact there are no other gods before him because of my love for him and by living for him every day...why does this cause head explosions for you?
not my head exploding sir.
it is the maniacs who are saying the law is heresy.
how can obeying "thou shalt have no other gods before me" be heresy?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
not my head exploding sir.
it is the maniacs who are saying the law is heresy.
how can obeying "thou shalt have no other gods before me" be heresy?
Ironically, "thou shalt have no other gods before me" includes making a god out of the Law.
 
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jcha

Guest
Right. Now don't be deceived and think that is saying doing equals being. Those who doeth righteousness do so because they are born of Him and have been made righteous by HIS obedience. (Rom 5:19)
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?

Can someone explain this verse?
17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed.…