What parts of Torah can we still keep today?

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Senior Member
#241
Aug 8, 2016
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#241
As followers of Christ what I think we must do is to 'follow Jesus' teaching'.
We know He did not destroy the law - but He did make changes to it !
We no longer need to keep it 'according to OT letter but now to keep it transformed by the Spirit.
The old way caused much enmity, hatred and division...much of which we still see in evidence today.
We have not yet learned to find the 'happy medium, why ? no give and take between people ...each clinging firmly to his/her own understaning !
It is obvious that no decent society can exist without law, so when Jesus abolished the 'letter/works of the law' He most certainly did not destroy the law altogether, only the 'works attached to it' making it now possible to keep the law in heart and Spirit.

for inst. Doing things a certain way or eating certain foods laid down in 'rituals and carnal ordinances' do not make a person right before God Heb 9v9,10. It is not what we physically do but what we 'spiritually intend from the heart'.
Scripture tells God is seeking people who will worship Him in Truth and Spirit . Also the Kgd of God is not meat/food and drink, so don't let us labour for the meat that perishes.
It would seem to me that if a person wants to stay with the carnal law they should be allowed to do so 'in peace, but it is not sin for those who opt out and have a true spiritual understanding of the law. Jesus definitely does not class it as sin...for not what goes into the mouth defiles a person but what comes out of it THAT defiles a person.
So please let us reach out the hand in friendship to all who love God and keep His Commandments !
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#242
Jul 1, 2016
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#242
FreeNChrist said:
disciplemike said:
And sense you have no real answer to my question and I have to stuff to do, consider this;

"First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). Then He said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.” (Heb 10:8-9)


God allowed the destruction of the temple because it had outlived its purpose. The Old was done, it had served its purpose. The New had come…and God was making that clear to the world.
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again, from this perspective, we are not that far apart.
I don't think God EVER wanted the blood of bulls and goats for sin. He wanted obedience. This has not changed.
sir, He did not change His mind about disobedience (sin).
He had to make a way for us to be reconciled, even though we deserve death.
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#243
#243
disciplemike said:
ok, here is the gray area that stands between us.
you say that jesus is the fix.
you say that one who has been "fixed" by jesus has no need for the law.

but this is not what we see in the modern "church".
I want to be careful how I say this, but we have taught this "grace only" and "easy believism" so long, the mentality is that a "believer" can break all the commandments they want, as long as they tell people they believe in jesus.
that is not the gospel. never was.
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God says your condemnation is just.

"Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!" Romans 3:8
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#244
#244
disciplemike said:
again, from this perspective, we are not that far apart.
I don't think God EVER wanted the blood of bulls and goats for sin. He wanted obedience. This has not changed.
sir, He did not change His mind about disobedience (sin).
He had to make a way for us to be reconciled, even though we deserve death.
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He has reconciled us through the death of His Son. Now He wants to save you through the life of His Son. (Rom. 5:10)
 
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Senior Member
#245
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
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#245
disciplemike said:
well not you personally, sorry.
That particular translation makes your jesus out to be a liar.
come on. get real. You really think he would destroy his father's commandments?
not a chance.
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To be fair mike....
food and drink are not mentioned in the 10 Commandments.
And the 'commandments contained in ordinances/works have been changed into spiritual observance....not destroyed.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#246
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
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#246
beta said:
To be fair mike....
food and drink are not mentioned in the 10 Commandments.
And the 'commandments contained in ordinances/works have been changed into spiritual observance....not destroyed.
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sorry sister, we don't agree on everything. I hope you have a good day though!
 
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Senior Member
#247
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
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#247
FreeNChrist said:
disciplemike said:
That's just it, one who has been "fixed" has no need for the Law. Jesus is that "fix". He Himself, in us, being who He is and doing what He does is our "fix".
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But Christians are not being 'who HE is, nor doing what HE does, are they ? They are not with Him 24/7, they have not learned obedience yet ! Heb5v8,9.
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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#248
Nov 22, 2015
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#248
Disobedience in the New Covenant is not to believe that Christ has done it all and fulfilled the law.

To be obedient to the faith - one must rely on Christ's work exclusively for life and living - not the law of Moses. It was a mere shadow to lead us to Christ and it did it's job. Leave Mt. Sinai for Mt. Zion for that is where the true Christian is from now.

In the Old Covenant if you break one law - you are guilty of them all. Choose which covenant you want to live by - the New which is in Christ or what you do in the law.

But remember this important truth that Paul talks about in Romans. All your law-keeping does nothing to establish right standing with God.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#249
Jul 1, 2016
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#249
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 2:29 (KJV, MBM)




Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.1 John 3:7 (KJV, MBM)
 
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Senior Member
#250
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
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#250
disciplemike said:
sorry sister, we don't agree on everything. I hope you have a good day though!
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I am sorry too mike, I like a lot of what you say.
Have I missed something ? Is the 'food law a spiritual,eternal requirement that can make us better people ? Why does Jesus take a 'relaxed view of it ?
I am no stranger to the 'food law, having kept it for more than 30 years...until Jesus spoke to me.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#251
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#251
disciplemike said:
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 2:29 (KJV, MBM)




Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.1 John 3:7 (KJV, MBM)
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That's right - we can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in our lives now that we are in Christ. Christ Himself is our righteousness in the New Covenant - we don't go around and try to establish our own by keeping the law. Awake to righteousness and sin not.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#252
Nov 22, 2015
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#252
The righteous in Christ live by faith in what He has done and are "believers" in Him

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)

[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Romans 10:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, ( by their own good works like in their law-keeping) they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#253
#253
beta said:
But Christians are not being 'who HE is, nor doing what HE does, are they ? They are not with Him 24/7, they have not learned obedience yet ! Heb5v8,9.
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Its He who is with us 24/7. Its we who live by faith in Him, which is our obedience of faith.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#254
Jul 1, 2016
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#254
FreeNChrist said:
Its He who is with us 24/7. Its we who live by faith in Him, which is our obedience of faith.
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you might want to look up the word "obedience".
and while you are there, look up the word "disciple".
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#255
#255
disciplemike said:
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 2:29 (KJV, MBM)

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.1 John 3:7 (KJV, MBM)
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Right. Now don't be deceived and think that is saying doing equals being. Those who doeth righteousness do so because they are born of Him and have been made righteous by HIS obedience. (Rom 5:19)
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#256
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
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#256
FreeNChrist said:
Right. Now don't be deceived and think that is saying doing equals being. Those who doeth righteousness do so because they are born of Him and have been made righteous by HIS obedience. (Rom 5:19)
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sure, like the thief on the cross, we get the justification by His righteousness.

but don't fool yourself. if you go on living, your thoughts, words and actions demonstrate YOUR righteousness (or lack of).
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#257
#257
disciplemike said:
sure, like the thief on the cross, we get the justification by His righteousness.

but don't fool yourself. if you go on living, your thoughts, words and actions demonstrate YOUR righteousness (or lack of).
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It is Christs righteousness, imputed to me. Demonstrate it to who?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#258
#258
disciplemike said:
you might want to look up the word "obedience".
and while you are there, look up the word "disciple".
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A disciple is a learner. And obedience in the new covenant means to "listen under," derived from the Greek word hupakouo. We are to "listen under" the guiding direction of the Spirit of Christ, and respond with faith which allows for the receptivity of His activity in our behavior.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#259
Jul 1, 2016
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#259
FreeNChrist said:
A disciple is a learner. And obedience in the new covenant means to "listen under," derived from the Greek word hupakouo. We are to "listen under" the guiding direction of the Spirit of Christ, and respond with faith which allows for the receptivity of His activity in our behavior.
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okay, good start.
if this learner, that has discipline, listens to the guiding direction of the Spirit, do you really think that learner will want to disobey God?
I don't think so.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#260
#260
disciplemike said:
okay, good start.
if this learner, that has discipline, listens to the guiding direction of the Spirit, do you really think that learner will want to disobey God?
I don't think so.
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To listen to the guiding direction of the Spirit IS to be obedient.
 
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