What role does obedience play in salvation?

[OneFaith]

Belief without action is not genuine belief (James 2:14). Now in regards to the car analogy, simply believing our breaks will stop the car "in of itself" will not stop the car from crashing if we don't apply the brakes, yet believing in the death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation will save us from eternal condemnation because Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. So how much action/how many good works do you believe that we must accomplish and "add as a supplement" to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save us?

Simply believing does save us. 1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. Come in contact with the blood? I've often heard people who attend the church of Christ say that we "contact the blood of Christ" in water baptism, but that is false.

In Colossians 1:14, we read - in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. "Through His blood" is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16).

False. Water baptism is the symbol, but not the reality. As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains, "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality." Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures.

Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). *If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics.

Again, you are confusing the symbol/picture with the reality. Your faith is in the baptism, rather than the baptizer -- Jesus (Matthew 3:11). Seeking salvation by means of water baptism is NOT obeying the gospel, but is obeying a "different" gospel. Baptism pictures a person being buried with Christ and being raised to new life. This symbolizes the person's union with and incorporation into Christ, which is by the action of the Holy Spirit which previously took place during Spirit baptism and gives them power to walk in newness of life.

Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.

We are Spirit baptized (not water baptized) into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). In what sense are we water baptized into Christ? In the same sense that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses." (1 Corinthians 10:2) *Not literally water baptized into the body of Moses here, but baptized into Moses indicating their oneness, or solidarity, with Moses as their leader (1 Corinthians 10:2) just as through water baptism we indicate our oneness, or solidarity with Christ as our Savior.

Thank you as well. I perceive that it will difficult for you to comprehend anything beyond your church of Christ indoctrination. Been there, done that, but now I BELIEVE. Please take the time to prayerfully consider what I have shared with you and God bless.

I want to reply to so much of that, but I really need the format you used. How do you put what I said in a box so often, and have your reply not be in the box? I'm using my cell phone, and only have a tiny bit that I can see at once. I guess I could try to answer a little bit from what I remember of what you said...

So one question to me, if I remember correctly, was at what point of obedience do I believe one is saved? Well, I think, and hope, that we both can agree that a worldly person who does not obey God at all, in any way, not even in belief, will not be saved, correct? Because Jesus said most enter through the wide gate, and few find the narrow gate. So I'm hoping we can at least agree that there has to be some obedience on our part in order to receive salvation. So the first level of obedience (if you want to call it that, I never have before) is that one must react to God somehow in their conscience, in a positive, obedient way. Which means they must at least believe that He exists. But even demons are at that level, and they will not receive salvation for it. (Let me know if you don't agree to the first level of obedience-which is any at all).

The second level of obedience would be acknowledging that God sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins. Jews, who believe in God, yet do not believe that the prophesied Christ has come in the flesh, will not receive salvation.

The third level of obedience I guess would be that we must go to Jesus. "Come to me those of you who are heavy- laden, and I will give you rest." There are false doctrines out there like "ask Jesus into your heart and you will be saved." He does not come to us, unless we are already His sheep, and have gone astray, we must first initiate going to Him. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness." The example given in the Old Testament, of a snake statue (representing Christ coming in the likeness of sinful men) that those bitten may be cured of the poisonous venom (representing sin) was not brought to them, rather they had to seek it out and go to it in order to be saved from death. In the same way, Christ says He must be lifted up on the cross, and will draw all men onto Himself. So we must seek Him out, and go to Him.

The forth level is we must hear the plan of salvation. Now we get into scripture of what we must do. We must learn and do the steps that lead to baptism- which is obeying the gospel of Christ. The steps that lead to coming in spirituality contact with Christ's spiritual blood are...

Hear (scripture)
Believe (what the scripture says)
Confess that Jesus is the Son of the Living God
Repent (make a u-turn away from sin)
Be baptized (circumcision of the heart, spiritual death, spiritual burial, resurrection to newness of life)
Feed on the Word (whatever does not grow dies)
Not forsake the body of Christ (church)
Take the Lord's Supper in the assembly of the Saints (fellow Christians) upon the first day of the week
Continue to die daily to sin, not going back on what you've attained so far in your growth
Not use God's grace (Christ's blood) as a license to sin
And be faithful and obedient till the point of death

Like trying to follow an Olympic jumper who jumps from this line to the next line, but not able to make it over the second line like the pro athlete (representing Jesus) can, we must try to make it as far as we can, and the distance remaining, Christ goes that extra distance on our behalf, because we are trying. But to those who will not even try, He will not go any of the distance for them.

For He says "If you sin willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." ('No longer' meaning there once genuinely did). If we sin purposely, premeditated, with no effort or goal to stop, we lose our salvation. Both the righteous and the unrighteous sin, but the righteous are trying not to- they are trying to do what's right, trying to obey God. But the difference between you and me is, you think all you need to do is be in the righteous group (the Elect of God), whereas I believe there is an even smaller group within the righteous group that you must be in (The Very Elect of God). It's not enough to be righteous, to be God's servant, you have to be very obedient. The scriptures say "For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" And "Throw that lazy and wicked servant out into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And "Each of you must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling."

Because God chooses who to give the gift of grace to, and decides to give it to those trying ever so desperately to obey Him. Their obedience does not earn it- which is why it has to be a gift. That's like if I put forth effort to sell my garbage for one penny toward the price of a mansion, but could not even make one cent toward its price, but the mansion's owner seen my effort and decided to give me his mansion for free. I did not earn it, not in the least bit, it was a gift. But he would not have given it to me had he not seen my effort. God gives grace to those showing grand effort, but their efforts do not earn it in the least bit.

Please let me know at what point you start disagreeing with me, because I am trying to understand your thinking on this.

 

[Jackson123]

I want to reply to so much of that, but I really need the format you used. How do you put what I said in a box so often, and have your reply not be in the box? I'm using my cell phone, and only have a tiny bit that I can see at once. I guess I could try to answer a little bit from what I remember of what you said...

So one question to me, if I remember correctly, was at what point of obedience do I believe one is saved? Well, I think, and hope, that we both can agree that a worldly person who does not obey God at all, in any way, not even in belief, will not be saved, correct? Because Jesus said most enter through the wide gate, and few find the narrow gate. So I'm hoping we can at least agree that there has to be some obedience on our part in order to receive salvation. So the first level of obedience (if you want to call it that, I never have before) is that one must react to God somehow in their conscience, in a positive, obedient way. Which means they must at least believe that He exists. But even demons are at that level, and they will not receive salvation for it. (Let me know if you don't agree to the first level of obedience-which is any at all).

The second level of obedience would be acknowledging that God sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins. Jews, who believe in God, yet do not believe that the prophesied Christ has come in the flesh, will not receive salvation.

The third level of obedience I guess would be that we must go to Jesus. "Come to me those of you who are heavy- laden, and I will give you rest." There are false doctrines out there like "ask Jesus into your heart and you will be saved." He does not come to us, unless we are already His sheep, and have gone astray, we must first initiate going to Him. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness." The example given in the Old Testament, of a snake statue (representing Christ coming in the likeness of sinful men) that those bitten may be cured of the poisonous venom (representing sin) was not brought to them, rather they had to seek it out and go to it in order to be saved from death. In the same way, Christ says He must be lifted up on the cross, and will draw all men onto Himself. So we must seek Him out, and go to Him.

The forth level is we must hear the plan of salvation. Now we get into scripture of what we must do. We must learn and do the steps that lead to baptism- which is obeying the gospel of Christ. The steps that lead to coming in spirituality contact with Christ's spiritual blood are...

Hear (scripture)
Believe (what the scripture says)
Confess that Jesus is the Son of the Living God
Repent (make a u-turn away from sin)
Be baptized (circumcision of the heart, spiritual death, spiritual burial, resurrection to newness of life)
Feed on the Word (whatever does not grow dies)
Not forsake the body of Christ (church)
Take the Lord's Supper in the assembly of the Saints (fellow Christians) upon the first day of the week
Continue to die daily to sin, not going back on what you've attained so far in your growth
Not use God's grace (Christ's blood) as a license to sin
And be faithful and obedient till the point of death

Like trying to follow an Olympic jumper who jumps from this line to the next line, but not able to make it over the second line like the pro athlete (representing Jesus) can, we must try to make it as far as we can, and the distance remaining, Christ goes that extra distance on our behalf, because we are trying. But to those who will not even try, He will not go any of the distance for them.

For He says "If you sin willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." ('No longer' meaning there once genuinely did). If we sin purposely, premeditated, with no effort or goal to stop, we lose our salvation. Both the righteous and the unrighteous sin, but the righteous are trying not to- they are trying to do what's right, trying to obey God. But the difference between you and me is, you think all you need to do is be in the righteous group (the Elect of God), whereas I believe there is an even smaller group within the righteous group that you must be in (The Very Elect of God). It's not enough to be righteous, to be God's servant, you have to be very obedient. The scriptures say "For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" And "Throw that lazy and wicked servant out into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." And "Each of you must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling."

Because God chooses who to give the gift of grace to, and decides to give it to those trying ever so desperately to obey Him. Their obedience does not earn it- which is why it has to be a gift. That's like if I put forth effort to sell my garbage for one penny toward the price of a mansion, but could not even make one cent toward its price, but the mansion's owner seen my effort and decided to give me his mansion for free. I did not earn it, not in the least bit, it was a gift. But he would not have given it to me had he not seen my effort. God gives grace to those showing grand effort, but their efforts do not earn it in the least bit.

Please let me know at what point you start disagreeing with me, because I am trying to understand your thinking on this.

Good explanation

at least we obey to believe Jesus AS God and savior to be save.

after that, obey 2 greates commandment love God and love other.

according to Jesus If we not obey to love other, we not only lose reward, but go to hell

depart from Me, mean lose your salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I want to reply to so much of that, but I really need the format you used. How do you put what I said in a box so often, and have your reply not be in the box?

Not sure.

I'm using my cell phone, and only have a tiny bit that I can see at once. I guess I could try to answer a little bit from what I remember of what you said...

It's easier to respond on a computer.

So one question to me, if I remember correctly, was at what point of obedience do I believe one is saved? Well, I think, and hope, that we both can agree that a worldly person who does not obey God at all, in any way, not even in belief, will not be saved, correct?

Correct.

Because Jesus said most enter through the wide gate, and few find the narrow gate. So I'm hoping we can at least agree that there has to be some obedience on our part in order to receive salvation. So the first level of obedience (if you want to call it that, I never have before) is that one must react to God somehow in their conscience, in a positive, obedient way. Which means they must at least believe that He exists. But even demons are at that level, and they will not receive salvation for it. (Let me know if you don't agree to the first level of obedience-which is any at all).

I don't really think of it as levels of obedience, yet we agree that simply believing in the existence of God will not save. The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) yet they don't believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they don't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

The second level of obedience would be acknowledging that God sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins. Jews, who believe in God, yet do not believe that the prophesied Christ has come in the flesh, will not receive salvation.

Correct.

The third level of obedience I guess would be that we must go to Jesus. "Come to me those of you who are heavy- laden, and I will give you rest." There are false doctrines out there like "ask Jesus into your heart and you will be saved." He does not come to us, unless we are already His sheep, and have gone astray, we must first initiate going to Him. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness." The example given in the Old Testament, of a snake statue (representing Christ coming in the likeness of sinful men) that those bitten may be cured of the poisonous venom (representing sin) was not brought to them, rather they had to seek it out and go to it in order to be saved from death. In the same way, Christ says He must be lifted up on the cross, and will draw all men onto Himself. So we must seek Him out, and go to Him.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. The point of the analogy is "lifted up." Just as Moses "lifted up" the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it in faith may live physically, those who look to Christ in faith who was "lifted up" on the cross for our sins will live eternally.

The forth level is we must hear the plan of salvation. Now we get into scripture of what we must do. We must learn and do the steps that lead to baptism - which is obeying the gospel of Christ.

I already shared with you from scripture that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). The gospel is not a series of steps that culminates in water baptism.

The steps that lead to coming in spirituality contact with Christ's spiritual blood are...

I already explained to you in post #79 that the term, "through His blood" is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used in a similar way to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). It would seem that everything I'm explaining to you is just going right over your head.

Hear (scripture)

Sure, we must first hear the word, the gospel, before we can repent (change our mind) and believe the gospel in order to become saved.

Believe (what the scripture says)

Believe in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation by trusting exclusively in Jesus for salvation and not merely believe "mental assent" that Jesus exists and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened."

Confess that Jesus is the Son of the Living God

The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart -- together (Romans 10:8). Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:9,10).

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" (not by the Holy Spirit) from a check list of steps is not unto salvation.

Repent (make a u-turn away from sin)

And become sinless 100% of the time? No. In the first place, your steps our out of order. Repent actually precedes believe/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
*Notice the order.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

Many people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin" as if we completely stop sinning. This is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning.

Be baptized (circumcision of the heart, spiritual death, spiritual burial, resurrection to newness of life)

Water baptism is the PICTURE of these things, but is NOT the reality. Spirit baptism is the reality.

Feed on the Word (whatever does not grow dies)

Feeding on the Word is how believers mature in Christ. Believers have been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

Not forsake the body of Christ (church)

The Church is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) which is made up of all genuine born again believers/Christians and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.

Take the Lord's Supper in the assembly of the Saints (fellow Christians) upon the first day of the week

Believers are to partake of the Lord's Supper BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved.

Continue to die daily to sin, not going back on what you've attained so far in your growth

It's called ongoing sanctification.

Not use God's grace (Christ's blood) as a license to sin

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (NASB)

AMPC - No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

And be faithful and obedient till the point of death

Which is descriptive of genuine believers. Often, descriptive passages of scripture will get mixed up with prescriptive passages of scripture.

Like trying to follow an Olympic jumper who jumps from this line to the next line, but not able to make it over the second line like the pro athlete (representing Jesus) can, we must try to make it as far as we can, and the distance remaining, Christ goes that extra distance on our behalf, because we are trying. But to those who will not even try, He will not go any of the distance for them.

You seem to believe that receiving and maintaining salvation is based on the merits of our performance, which equates to salvation by works.

For He says "If you sin willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." ('No longer' meaning there once genuinely did). If we sin purposely, premeditated, with no effort or goal to stop, we lose our salvation. Both the righteous and the unrighteous sin, but the righteous are trying not to- they are trying to do what's right, trying to obey God. But the difference between you and me is, you think all you need to do is be in the righteous group (the Elect of God), whereas I believe there is an even smaller group within the righteous group that you must be in (The Very Elect of God).

The Bible nowhere uses the words, "lose salvation." Now n regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

It's not enough to be righteous, to be God's servant, you have to be very obedient.

So where do you draw the line in the sand on just how obedient one must be in order to be saved? Believers receive Christ's imputed righteousness (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) so what you are saying is that the righteousness of God is not enough.

The scriptures say "For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

I often hear Roman Catholics and other works salvationists quote this verse and misinterpret it. The point is that if the righteous are saved but only with difficulty, suffering, pain and loss then what will be the end of the ungodly? Peter is not saying that it's hard for the righteous to make it to heaven because only a sinless, perfect performance will get you in and anything less means you will not make it to heaven.

And "Throw that lazy and wicked servant out into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In this parable, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results are not truly converted. Faith without works is dead.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as, "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a servant does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews are called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

And "Each of you must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling."

In Philippians 2:12, notice that Paul said, "work out" not "work for" your salvation. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means to continually work to bring something to fulfillment or completion. It does not refer to salvation by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of ongoing sanctification. Now ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, absolute perfect life (which we won't), we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1). Also notice that verse 12 does not end with a period, but with a comma. Keep reading to understand what God was inspiring Paul to tell us. Verse 13 continues, after a comma, "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

Because God chooses who to give the gift of grace to, and decides to give it to those trying ever so desperately to obey Him. Their obedience does not earn it- which is why it has to be a gift. That's like if I put forth effort to sell my garbage for one penny toward the price of a mansion, but could not even make one cent toward its price, but the mansion's owner seen my effort and decided to give me his mansion for free. I did not earn it, not in the least bit, it was a gift. But he would not have given it to me had he not seen my effort. God gives grace to those showing grand effort, but their efforts do not earn it in the least bit.

Your argument here is an oxymoron and is based on flawed human logic. We either receive the gift of eternal life through faith or else we reject it.

Please let me know at what point you start disagreeing with me, because I am trying to understand your thinking on this.

Do you have all day?

 

[posthuman]

In the same way, let your light shine before others,
that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
(Matthew 5:16)
​

if it was my works, it would be me that is deserving of glory -- but it is the Father in heaven who is to be glorified; it is Jesus of Nazareth the Lamb of God who is to be lifted up!

how then is it that any good that i do should lead to God being praised?

that's the question that our understanding needs to be able to reconcile. that Lamp that should not be hidden ((v. 15)) doesn't originate in me; it is added to me, not achieved by me.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 5:48 [FONT=&quot]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The bar for obedience is set pretty high.

Matthew 11:28 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Thankfully, there is a solution for those who are not able. Those that tried but found perfect obedience out of their reach.

Matthew 9:12-13
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If you could obey then you wouldn't need Christ to start with. After you have figured out that you actually need the Lord Jesus Christ you realize that your need pertains to all aspects of your life, if you would like to be blessed and receive what the Lord has to give. Namely Righteousness, Wisdom and Obedience. Which is freely given in Salvation...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Jackson123]

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The bar for obedience is set pretty high.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Thankfully, there is a solution for those who are not able. Those that tried but found perfect obedience out of their reach.

Matthew 9:12-13
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If you could obey then you wouldn't need Christ to start with. After you have figured out that you actually need the Lord Jesus Christ you realize that your need pertains to all aspects of your life, if you would like to be blessed and receive what the Lord has to give. Namely Righteousness, Wisdom and Obedience. Which is freely given in Salvation...

we may not able to obey all command all the time, but to be save, It require at least obey to believe in Jesus and love God, and love God mean love other.

Matt 25 said if you not love other, you not go to heaven.

 

[Grandpa]

we may not able to obey all command all the time, but to be save, It require at least obey to believe in Jesus and love God, and love God mean love other.

Matt 25 said if you not love other, you not go to heaven.

The bar for loving is set by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Do you think you have or can achieve that?

Be perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. In Love. In Righteousness. In Obedience. In Wisdom. In Works.

Thankfully, there is a solution for our failure...

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


[/FONT]But we are required... All the requirements are a gift in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
[FONT=&quot]5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]

 

[unobtrusive]

The bar for loving is set by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Do you think you have or can achieve that?

Be perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. In Love. In Righteousness. In Obedience. In Wisdom. In Works.

Thankfully, there is a solution for our failure...

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


But we are required... All the requirements are a gift in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Where do you find the instructions on how to exact the love of God toward others? Is there simple detailed information in the Bible?

 

[Jackson123]

The bar for loving is set by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Do you think you have or can achieve that?

Be perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. In Love. In Righteousness. In Obedience. In Wisdom. In Works.

Thankfully, there is a solution for our failure...

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


But we are required... All the requirements are a gift in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Jesus Himself said on the last judgement this is what happen

Matt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I do not know if I can do it or not, I hope Jesus edit and make easier, but I don't think He agree if I make suggestion to make it better for me. If I may, I suggest just believe tha Jesus God, and do not need loving the needy, and remove matt 25.

whether I agree or not, Jesus will judge base on agape love, like He promise

whether I am able to do or not, Jesus not change His mind. If He change His mind, and judge base only believe Jesus God, and do not need love, no love only lose reward, but still go to heaven, than people will accused Jesus is a liar.

 

[OneFaith]

Not sure.

It's easier to respond on a computer.

Correct.

I don't really think of it as levels of obedience, yet we agree that simply believing in the existence of God will not save. The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) yet they don't believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they don't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Correct.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. The point of the analogy is "lifted up." Just as Moses "lifted up" the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it in faith may live physically, those who look to Christ in faith who was "lifted up" on the cross for our sins will live eternally.

I already shared with you from scripture that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). The gospel is not a series of steps that culminates in water baptism.

I already explained to you in post #79 that the term, "through His blood" is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used in a similar way to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). It would seem that everything I'm explaining to you is just going right over your head.

Sure, we must first hear the word, the gospel, before we can repent (change our mind) and believe the gospel in order to become saved.

Believe in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation by trusting exclusively in Jesus for salvation and not merely believe "mental assent" that Jesus exists and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened."

The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart -- together (Romans 10:8). Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:9,10).

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" (not by the Holy Spirit) from a check list of steps is not unto salvation.

And become sinless 100% of the time? No. In the first place, your steps our out of order. Repent actually precedes believe/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
*Notice the order.

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

Many people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from sin" as if we completely stop sinning. This is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning.

Water baptism is the PICTURE of these things, but is NOT the reality. Spirit baptism is the reality.

Feeding on the Word is how believers mature in Christ. Believers have been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

The Church is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) which is made up of all genuine born again believers/Christians and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.

Believers are to partake of the Lord's Supper BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved.

It's called ongoing sanctification.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (NASB)

AMPC - No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

Which is descriptive of genuine believers. Often, descriptive passages of scripture will get mixed up with prescriptive passages of scripture.

You seem to believe that receiving and maintaining salvation is based on the merits of our performance, which equates to salvation by works.

The Bible nowhere uses the words, "lose salvation." Now n regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

So where do you draw the line in the sand on just how obedient one must be in order to be saved? Believers receive Christ's imputed righteousness (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) so what you are saying is that the righteousness of God is not enough.

I often hear Roman Catholics and other works salvationists quote this verse and misinterpret it. The point is that if the righteous are saved but only with difficulty, suffering, pain and loss then what will be the end of the ungodly? Peter is not saying that it's hard for the righteous to make it to heaven because only a sinless, perfect performance will get you in and anything less means you will not make it to heaven.

In this parable, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.

The fact that the latter man in this parable is called wicked and slothful and an unprofitable servant (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results are not truly converted. Faith without works is dead.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as, "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a servant does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Jews are called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved (Isaiah 43:10).

In Philippians 2:12, notice that Paul said, "work out" not "work for" your salvation. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means to continually work to bring something to fulfillment or completion. It does not refer to salvation by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of ongoing sanctification. Now ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, absolute perfect life (which we won't), we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1). Also notice that verse 12 does not end with a period, but with a comma. Keep reading to understand what God was inspiring Paul to tell us. Verse 13 continues, after a comma, "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

Your argument here is an oxymoron and is based on flawed human logic. We either receive the gift of eternal life through faith or else we reject it.

Do you have all day?

I cannot chunk things up like you can, so I can't reply to most of what you said. Just saying that so far, I had to keep scrolling back to find where I am typing, it's very difficult for me to go long on this format. Besides this, I would have to tackle one point at a time with you, cause it gets way too long. I do appreciate the time you put in to answer me.

So what I basically got was that it does take some obedience, in your opinion, to get saved, but that obedience after being saved is optional, and that no matter how disobedient you are you cannot lose your salvation once you've had it? Well I strongly disagree, but respectfully so.

If you want to continue this, I'm going to have to do it in pm where I can cover one point at a time, cause it gets too long this way. So if you want to continue this conversation, just pm me.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 30:11-14, “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it? For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.”

AMEN....one cannot obey the word, much less spiritually discern it unless they are born from above....then and only then do they begin the process of sanctification in their lives by a daily process of growth and maturity....

We can obey when guided by His Spirit;


Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."


Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”


Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.”


1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”


Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


John/Yahanan 14:16-21, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever. the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you. I shall not leave you orphans – I am coming to you. Yet a little while, and the world no longer sees Me, but you shall see Me, because I live, and you shall live. In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”


John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."


John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."


John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."


Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus*, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."


1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "*He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

AMEN....one cannot obey the word, much less spiritually discern it unless they are born from above....then and only then do they begin the process of sanctification in their lives by a daily process of growth and maturity....

I agree we need Him to grow, but is it not when the mercy has been given when true repentance, the kind that goes to what is right and never goes back usually begins?


Romans 2:4-15, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that יהוה’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of יהוה’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of יהוה will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with יהוה. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before Yah, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."

AMEN......agree with ALL three........works or grace....not both, one or the other!

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

No roll in obtaining salvation whatsoever. Evidence of conversion? Yes.

James 2:24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone."

Non!
1. If we could obey the law jesus would have stayed in heaven
2. If we could work off our sin debt, jesus would havstayed in heaven.
3. If works are a part of salvation, then their is no grace, period.

James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

No one can earn their way to the kingdom because all fall short of the glory, we need mercy. However I believe obedience is key and plays a role as minimum as being a token, sign or outward proof that one is a follower of Yahshua Messiah (Jesus Christ). Also further allow us to continually grow in His truth, teaching and will. Considering these verses possibly more;

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Hebrew 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before יהוה. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”


Proverbs 3:6, “In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.”

Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Lamentations 3:22-24, “The kindnesses of יהוה ! For we have not been consumed, For His compassions have not ended. They are new every morning, Great is Your trustworthiness. “יהוה is my Portion,” says my being, “Therefore I wait for Him!”


1 Kepha (Peter) 4:17-18 “For the time has come that judgment must begin at The House of יהוה; and if it first begins with us, what will the end be of those who do not obey the message of יהוה? And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where will the wicked and the sinner appear?”

 

[AndTheWordWasGOD]

AMEN....one cannot obey the word, much less spiritually discern it unless they are born from above....then and only then do they begin the process of sanctification in their lives by a daily process of growth and maturity....

John 3:5-7 KJV
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(7) Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born again.

 

[Nehemiah6]

John 3:5-7 KJV
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(7) Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born again.

Now if that is not an imperative and a Divine command, then nothing is.

 

[Hizikyah]

Obedience does play a role in salvation, and most Christians are not aware of the kind of obedience which is required. It is NOT for works of righteousness, since salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

However, the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH is a necessity. What this means is:

1. Obedience to the Gospel -- BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31). God commands us to believe on His Son and what He has done to obtain salvation for us. Thus Paul speaks of the obedience of faith as below.

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: (Rom 16:25.26)

2. Obedience to the commandment to repent:And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31).

Paul sums this up as follows (Acts 20:20, 21): And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Leviticus 20:7-8, "Consecrate and sanctify yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am YHWH your Father. You must therefore keep My statutes, and perform and do them; I am YHWH Who consecrates and sanctifies you."

Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it will be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, if we observe to do all of this Law before YHWH our Father, as He has commanded us."

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

John 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past YHWH winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

Isaiah 64:6-8, “And all of us have become as one unclean, and all our righteousnesses are as soiled rags. And all of us fade like a leaf, and our crookednesses, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your Name, who stirs himself up to be strengthened in You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our crookednesses. And now, O יהוה, You are our Father. We are the clay, and You our potter. And we are all the work of Your hand.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Isaiah 51:7, “Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their reviling.”

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of Yah?”

Yet Scripture also says;

Revelation 14:12-13, "In this manner are the saints purified – by keeping the Laws of יהוה, (in conformity) with the faith, in Yahshua Messiah. And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Hebrews11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him."

Rom 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.

Rom 331, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Romans 3:23 - Justification is not what we do, and not what I am, and not what I worked for. It is what Jesus did and my faith in it that gives me the standing with God that I need to carry on my Christian experience. Sometime I do it well, and sometimes I do it not so well, but His justifying Grace will not fail unless my faith fails. It is just if I have never sinned and just if I have always obeyed (Romans 8:1; Romans 8:2).

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Yah,"

Isaiah 64:6-8, “And all of us have become as one unclean, and all our righteousnesses are as soiled rags. And all of us fade like a leaf, and our crookednesses, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your Name, who stirs himself up to be strengthened in You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our crookednesses. And now, O יהוה, You are our Father. We are the clay, and You our potter. And we are all the work of Your hand.”

Hebrews11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him."

Rom 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.

Rom 331, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Yah,"

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."


1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

 

[Hizikyah]

Jesus said in john 3:16

who believe in Him will save.

what is obey mean

Definition of obey

obeyed; obeyingtransitive verb
1:to follow the commands or guidance of

• He always obeys his parents.

2:to conform to or comply with

• obey an order

• Falling objects obey the laws of physics.

intransitive verb
:to behave obediently

• The dog does not always obey.

to to follow the command or guidance

what is Jesus guide us to save?

Believe in Him

if you not follow His guidance you not save

Because obey mean follow guidance so

if you not obey Jesus you not save

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"



"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}


Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)


Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey


John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”


John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."


John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

 

[jaybird88]

HZ where you been brother?? every time your gone for these long periods of time i worry that you were abducted by . . .them.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

If you eliminated everyone who was doing something wrong, the Church is going to be empty. Thank God for His mercy. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery I don't condemn you.