What was the LAW that was added?

[Eccl12and13]

The Law was not given to Adam. It was given to Moses.

So God gave NO laws on how to raise his children to Adam?

God gave Adam NO laws to give to his children?

How did Cain and Able know to give an offering to God?

Gen.4
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Why did God punish Cain for the murder of his brother Able if it was NOT a sin?

Gen.4
[13] And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
[14] Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


Let me ask you.....if the law was given UNTIL Moses...why did God destroy Sodom and the surrounding suburbs?


.

 

[Grandpa]

Was Paul in Christ Jesus?

When he read God's laws did he not do his best to keep them and tell those he taught to keep them?

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1 Cor.5
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cor.6
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph.5
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col.3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


This does not sound like Paul is saying God's laws are no more for those that are in Christ Jesus.

If anything....it sounds as though Paul is telling those that are trying to BE in Christ Jesus they need to stop breaking God's laws and commandments.


.

Paul was (is) in Christ Jesus. He knew something you don't. He knew that the Law was against his flesh and all its desires. He knew that the only way of "keeping" the law was to follow the spirit and abide in Christ.

Galatians 3:1-7
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

If you think that Paul was telling people to keep the Law as the Jews do, you are grossly mistaken.

Galatians 3:22-26
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Absolutely you are told to keep the law. This is the schoolmaster to bring you to Christ. But Christians, those who have come to Christ, are no longer under the Law. Those who have come to Christ have been forgiven of their sin and the power of that sin has been broken. The Law no longer applies to them but to the disobedient, the ones who still haven't come to Christ.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Those who have come to Christ have been forgiven of their sin and the power of that sin has been broken. The Law no longer applies to them but to the disobedient, the ones who still haven't come to Christ.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

So the Christian no longer has to do their best at keeping God's laws?

And what about my other question?

When Paul read God's laws did he not do his best to keep them and tell those he taught to keep them?

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1 Cor.5
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cor.6
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph.5
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col.3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Why is Paul telling these to KEEP God's laws if they are no longer under them?

And what about the following......?

So God gave NO laws on how to raise his children to Adam?

God gave Adam NO laws to give to his children?

How did Cain and Able know to give an offering to God?

Gen.4
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Why did God punish Cain for the murder of his brother Able if it was NOT a sin?

Gen.4
[13] And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
[14] Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


Let me ask you.....if the law was given UNTIL Moses...why did God destroy Sodom and the surrounding suburbs?





.

 

[Grandpa]

So your free to live how please despite the commands of the NT?.

As far as it regards the law of Liberty in Christ Jesus.

In other words we are slaves to Righteousness who are in Christ Jesus.

We follow after the spirit and not after the flesh.

Do we have commands in the NT?

Yes. They are a magnification of the Law given by Moses on stone tablets.

If yes, are we under them?

Only if you haven't come to Christ. Those who have come to Christ are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If no, then please explain how their is still sin.

As long as there is flesh there will be sin. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. All come from your flesh. Even those who are following after Christ and have been born again battle against the big 3.

 

[Grandpa]

So the Christian no longer has to do their best at keeping God's laws?

The Christian already knows how to overcome and it isn't by doing their best at keeping the Law.

Try this; Take every thought that you have captive and make it obedient to Christ. Then, when you are done with that, be perfect like God is perfect.

I'll talk to you tomorrow and we'll evaluate your performance.

And what about my other question?



And what about the following......?

I'm pretty sure I already answered those questions...

 

[Eccl12and13]

I'm pretty sure I already answered those questions...

No...you didn't. Here they are again.....

So God gave NO laws on how to raise his children to Adam?

God gave Adam NO laws to give to his children?

How did Cain and Able know to give an offering to God?

Gen.4
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Why did God punish Cain for the murder of his brother Able if it was NOT a sin?

Gen.4
[13] And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
[14] Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


Let me ask you.....if the law was given UNTIL Moses...why did God destroy Sodom and the surrounding suburbs?

You claim God's laws were NOT given to Adam. So I asked the above questions.

 

[Grandpa]

No...you didn't. Here they are again.....





You claim God's laws were NOT given to Adam. So I asked the above questions.

The 10 commandments were not given to Adam. They were given to Moses.

These are commonly called God's Laws.

All of God's Law was not given to Adam. It was given to Moses.

Did people transgress against God and did God punish them before the Law was given to Moses? Yes, obviously.

This does not take from the fact that the Law was given by Moses from God.

 

[Eccl12and13]

The 10 commandments were not given to Adam. They were given to Moses.

So God never gave Adam a law saying that he should not steal, lie, kill, covet, worship other god's, or ANY of the 10?

So the earth had NO laws from the 10 commandments until they were given to Moses?

But that goes against the following scriptures;

Gen. 12
[13] Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
[17] And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
[18] And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
[19] Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

Now how did the Pharaoh know this was wrong? Was it written or did somebody tell him? Either way, the fact remains that he KNEW! And not only did he know...he knew it was wrong in the eyes of the true and living God.

So we have ADULTERY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Gen. 30
[31] And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock:
[32] I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.
[33] So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me.

So we have STEALING BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [15] Thou shalt not steal.

Josh. 24 [2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

Notice when they served ‘other gods’. It was on the ‘other side of the flood’!

So we have IDOLATRY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [3] Thou shalt have no other gods ` before me.

Just because we do not find God's written anywhere BEFORE they were given to Moses does not mean they did not exist.

 

[Grandpa]

So God never gave Adam a law saying that he should not steal, lie, kill, covet, worship other god's, or ANY of the 10?

So the earth had NO laws from the 10 commandments until they were given to Moses?

But that goes against the following scriptures;




Just because we do not find God's written anywhere BEFORE they were given to Moses does not mean they did not exist.

They are God's Law so they are eternal just like God is eternal.

They were not given until Moses.

Can you show where God gave Adam the 10 commandments? Not through your philosophy but actually show where God told Adam, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not worship any gods before me, etc...

 

[Eccl12and13]

They are God's Law so they are eternal just like God is eternal.

They were not given until Moses.

Can you show where God gave Adam the 10 commandments? Not through your philosophy but actually show where God told Adam, thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not worship any gods before me, etc...

Now this is where God given common sense should kick in......


DO you think God DIDN'T tell Adam those things were against Him?


Where did Cain and Able receive the knowledge to give an offering to God? Is it written anywhere? NO! Did they come up with this act on their own?

So WHO told them or directed them to do so? We know they offered an offering because we can read it...but WHO told them to do it?


Why did God bring a flood? Why would God punish those that did NOTHING against Him? Did they break a law of God? Of course they did? And this I CAN prove. Let's read....

Josh. 24 [2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

Notice when they served ‘other gods’. It was on the ‘other side of the flood’!

Now let's go back to Gen.

Gen.6
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Now let's read what God considers to be wicked;

Rom.1
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

So the wickedness that God accused man of BEFORE the flood He calls SIN in the NT.

So God, BEFORE giving His laws to Moses STILL had laws that man was disobeying.

THAT'S why God brought the flood to the world, because man was breaking His laws.


NOW.....can we read of any laws that God gave to man before the flood? No! But we know for a fact that men knew of God's laws and some tried to keep them.


EVERYTHING is not written down in God's word. But He has given us enough information and COMMON SENSE so that we can put 2 and 2 together so that we can figure some things out.



.

 

[Grandpa]

Ok, lets be foolish for a moment, lets rely on our common sense...

Is it possible for iniquity to be done against someone but for there to not be an actual law written against it?

of course there is. it happens all the time.

But lets get back to biblical facts and remove our vain imaginings.

God's Law was given to Moses on stone tablets and not to Adam.

There is nothing in Gods word mentioning this supposed common sense fact that God gave Adam the 10 commandments.

This is some vital information that is supposedly left out. Was that so you could fill in all the blanks for us?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will be sticking to His Word and not your common sense.

 

[feedm3]

As far as it regards the law of Liberty in Christ Jesus.

In other words we are slaves to Righteousness who are in Christ Jesus.

We follow after the spirit and not after the flesh.

Is it a law for us to follow after the Spirit? What if we choose to walk after the flesh?

Yes. They are a magnification of the Law given by Moses on stone tablets.

Passage? I have never seen any where state we have a "magnification of Moses law". Seeing it has nothign to do with it.

Only if you haven't come to Christ. Those who have come to Christ are no longer under a schoolmaster.

"THE school master" was the law of Moses, for the Jews. NOt me and you. We can bypass the law and come to Directly to Christ.

Are you saying their are laws for those who are not Christians, but afterwards then we are law free?

Then why are all the commands concerning for Christians how to live? Why are they written to Chirstians if they are not law for the Christian?

As long as there is flesh there will be sin. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. All come from your flesh. Even those who are following after Christ and have been born again battle against the big 3.[

So then, sense you claim to be in Christ. Then you cannot sin anymore, no matter what you do, because their are no laws for you, only those outside of Chirst?

So Christians can live how they choose according to what your saying.

Sense Chrsit died for our sins, and sense we have NO laws, we can
1. Be gay, fornicate, lie, murder etc.

Sense these laws only apply to non Christians.

That is foolish. Or you will say, a Christian will not want to live that way. Yet many are living that way, and claiming to be Christian at the same time. What's to stop us if we have no laws?

1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication
According to these passages:
1. Is I Thess 4:1-3 written to Christians?

2. Are the commands that they received from the Lord laws?

3. Is them doing the will of God by abstaining from fornication a law against fornication for the Christian?

4. Are these passage only intended for those who have not accepted Christ?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Ok, lets be foolish for a moment, lets rely on our common sense...

Is it possible for iniquity to be done against someone but for there to not be an actual law written against it?

of course there is. it happens all the time.

But lets get back to biblical facts and remove our vain imaginings.

God's Law was given to Moses on stone tablets and not to Adam.

There is nothing in Gods word mentioning this supposed common sense fact that God gave Adam the 10 commandments.

This is some vital information that is supposedly left out. Was that so you could fill in all the blanks for us?

Thanks, but no thanks. I will be sticking to His Word and not your common sense.

Again I ask;


Where did Cain and Able receive the knowledge to give an offering to God? Is it written anywhere? NO! Did they come up with this act on their own?

So WHO told them or directed them to do so? We know they offered an offering because we can read it...but WHO told them to do it?

Do you believe that God gave NO instructions to Adam and his wife Eve concerning the raising of their children?

Do you think that Adam knew it was wrong to steal, lie and to kill? If so..how did he gain this knowledge?

.

 

[Grandpa]

Again I ask;


Where did Cain and Able receive the knowledge to give an offering to God? Is it written anywhere? NO! Did they come up with this act on their own?

So WHO told them or directed them to do so? We know they offered an offering because we can read it...but WHO told them to do it?

Do you believe that God gave NO instructions to Adam and his wife Eve concerning the raising of their children?

Do you think that Adam knew it was wrong to steal, lie and to kill? If so..how did he gain this knowledge?

.

why do you think someone told them to give an offering?

If they were told why did Cain give an offering that was not accepted?

If he was told what offering to bring he would have known what was acceptable.

This is pretty silly trying to reason this out when it is not written in the bible.

I don't know what Adam knew, and neither do you. Its not written.

 

[Eccl12and13]

why do you think someone told them to give an offering?

If they were told why did Cain give an offering that was not accepted?

If he was told what offering to bring he would have known what was acceptable.

This is pretty silly trying to reason this out when it is not written in the bible.

I don't know what Adam knew, and neither do you. Its not written.

Why did God punish Cain for killing Able if there was no law against it? Let's read what God told Cain;

Gen.4
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God told Cain that sin was waiting at the door if he did not do well. And what is sin:

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now.....do you think God told Cain WHAT sin was when He made this statement?

And since we know what sin is let's consider the following questions;

Why did God bring a flood to the world?

Why did God destroy Sodom?

Gen. 30
[31] And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock:
[32] I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.
[33] So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me.


How did the people of Jacob day know that taking something that was not their's was wrong?


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

This is pretty silly trying to reason this out when it is not written in the bible.

I don't know what Adam knew, and neither do you. Its not written.

Gen.26
[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So.....we know for a fact that God had laws and commandments because God's word tells us that Abraham kept them.

Do we find them written anywhere BEFORE Moses? No. But we KNOW God had them even though we they are not written out at this time.

So.....just because it is not written in the bible does that mean that Abraham had no laws of God to follow?

Now...what do you think some of those laws could have been? Maybe do not, lie, steal, kill, covet, fornicate, disrespect parents and ALL of the other laws that were given to the nation of Israel?

Just maybe?


Common sense!



.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Readers...there are a host of other questions that can be asked about the law that God added to His already existing laws. Here are more questions that can ONLY be answered by one set of laws;


What law of God required the 'works' that Paul speaks of?
What law of God required the 'deeds' that Paul speaks of?
What law of God was only to be around for a short time?
What law of God could not make the comers there unto perfect?
What law of God did He not like?
What law of God had to be changed?
What law of God was to be a school master to man?
What law of God was nailed to His cross?


There is only ONE set of laws that answers ALL of the above questions...and it was the set of laws that God added to His already existing laws.

There will be a post giving the set of laws that answers ALL of the above questions.


.

 

[angelofmercy]

Now if until or before the law, sin was in the world but not imputed, how can there be then a law already here?

I say a more practical way of every individual to understand what sin is, is anything not of faith.

What was here is common sense. Only in the absense of love is good and evil known.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

I usually don't do this, but at this point I think it's necessary.

Brother, if you have a candle under that basket, it's time you make your revelation.

 

[Grandpa]

Readers...there are a host of other questions that can be asked about the law that God added to His already existing laws. Here are more questions that can ONLY be answered by one set of laws;


What law of God required the 'works' that Paul speaks of? All of it.

What law of God required the 'deeds' that Paul speaks of?All of it.

What law of God was only to be around for a short time?All of it.

What law of God could not make the comers there unto perfect?All of it.

What law of God was to be a school master to man?All of it.

What law of God was nailed to His cross?All of it!!





.

It is error to think that some of God's Law doesn't apply and some of it does.

It is error to teach that some of God's Law has passed away and some hasn't.

It is error to teach that some of God's Laws or ordinances are less important than others.

It is error to try and replace the Lords easy yoke for the Heavy Yoke of the Law.

The Law requires work, everytime, all the time. We are not saved by work, we are saved by grace. No matter the good intentions of the one trying to teach you about the law, it is only ultimately designed to bring you to Christ. If it hasn't brought you to Christ yet, you are still under it. The school master still has work to do.

If you have come to Christ then you know this;
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.