what was the purpose of the law?

[eternally-gratefull]

If you think we have no need of repentance to Christ Jesus of slip-ups after having believed on Him and baptized in Him, then you go directly against the Scriptures. Obviously, I am not a believer in the "Once saved, always saved" doctrine of men.

Yeah we know. you are a legalist. who preaches the works of men, and we can save ourselves.

You would be in error. and following the same way as the pharisees.

And if you really believe that Rom.3:25 is only about forgiveness of sin for those up to the time of His death and resurrection, then that would mean all born after that have no remission of sins, i.e., like us today.

Rom 3: 25 says he in his forbearance passed over the sins of the past. Speaking of OT saints. Any sin from that time forward would be sins of the future, not the past.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The preachers who teach that our Lord Jesus nailed all the law on His cross have grossly misunderstood what the law is for and about. Apostle Paul taught that IF we walk by The Spirit, then we are dead to the law; that doesn't mean all of God's laws were done away with. It means by walking in The Spirit we won't be doing anything against the law.

No, that's not what Paul said. He said that we who have been baptized into Christ's death have died to the law (just as he did).

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4​

Law has no authority over dead people. So yes, the power of the law (to condemn) has been abolished.

For [Christ] is our peace, who has made both [Jew and gentile] one, destroying the middle wall of the barrier, the enmity, in his flesh; having abolished the law (nomos) of commandments (entoles) contained in ordinances (dogmas); that of the two he should make in himself one new man, so making peace. Ephesians 2:14-15

abolish
G2673 καταργέω katargeo
1. to make entirely idle

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT BASED ON SEMANTIC DOMAINS
76.26 καταργέωc: to render ineffective the power or force of something—‘to invalidate, to abolish, to cause not to function.’ τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασιν καταργήσας ‘to abolish the Law of commandments consisting of regulations’ Eph 2:15;​

 

[MarcR]

The matter is common sense. Do we in Christ think it's OK to murder now since He washed away our sins?

Paul put an "if" there in his statement of Gal.5:18. An "if" presents a condition.

Since there is a presumption that Paul is addressing believers, and since there is a presumption that believers are led by the Holy Spirit; the if has the force of since.

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV

What does "remission of sins that are past" mean? I thought Christ remits all our sin forever after we believe on Him and are baptized??? No! When we first come to Christ and believe, and are baptized in Him, all sin from that point backwards is forgiven.

Christ does remit all our sins forever. Verses 1 and 2 set the context for all that follows including verse 25.

Ro 3:25 tells us that those who died in faith trusting in the promises of God's provision for their sin in Gen 3:15
and Ge 22:8 and who never knew of Jesus by name were also forgiven.

It can't mean that only past sins are forgiven because, when it was written, all our sins were future.

 

[passing_through]

Quote need to be closed with a [/QUOTE]

The matter is common sense. Do we in Christ think it's OK to murder now since He washed away our sins?

Like:

The matter is common sense. Do we in Christ think it's OK to murder now since He washed away our sins?

Or do you want to put me on your ignore list?

 

[DP]

Yeah we know. you are a legalist. who preaches the works of men, and we can save ourselves.

You would be in error. and following the same way as the pharisees.



Rom 3: 25 says he in his forbearance passed over the sins of the past. Speaking of OT saints. Any sin from that time forward would be sins of the future, not the past.

I'm not really a legalist at all. I simply weigh Scripture with other Scripture, allowing God's Word to interpret Itself, which is what we are supposed to do when studying His Word.

If Scripture like I quoted from 1 John 1 about the fact that we still sin after having coming to Christ and still need to repent to Him of it, and that He is faithful to cleanse us from it; if Scripture like that did not exist, then you might could treat what Paul said to mean just sins backwards from the time of Christ's death and resurrection.

Your interpretation also fails the context of that Scripture:

Rom 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
KJV

In Paul's context in that chapter, he is not speaking that about sinners back in the OT. He is speaking that to ALL, even to the new believers of today.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not really a legalist at all. I simply weigh Scripture with other Scripture, allowing God's Word to interpret Itself, which is what we are supposed to do when studying His Word.

Yep. well you have not done a good job of that Your trying to place us back under law. and rejecting grace..

If Scripture like I quoted from 1 John 1 about the fact that we still sin after having coming to Christ and still need to repent to Him of it, and that He is faithful to cleanse us from it; if Scripture like that did not exist, then you might could treat what Paul said to mean just sins backwards from the time of Christ's death and resurrection.

Then this same John lied in his gospel. when he said:
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Thanks, But I will believe Jesus, as he spoke through the written words of John, That I have in possession eternal life. and I shall not come into judgment, because i have passed from death to life (been born again)

Not your misinterpreted version of 1 John 1: 9

 

[DP]

No, that's not what Paul said. He said that we who have been baptized into Christ's death have died to the law (just as he did).

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4​

Law has no authority over dead people. So yes, the power of the law (to condemn) has been abolished.

For [Christ] is our peace, who has made both [Jew and gentile] one, destroying the middle wall of the barrier, the enmity, in his flesh; having abolished the law (nomos) of commandments (entoles) contained in ordinances (dogmas); that of the two he should make in himself one new man, so making peace. Ephesians 2:14-15

abolish
G2673 καταργέω katargeo
1. to make entirely idle

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT BASED ON SEMANTIC DOMAINS
76.26 καταργέωc: to render ineffective the power or force of something—‘to invalidate, to abolish, to cause not to function.’ τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασιν καταργήσας ‘to abolish the Law of commandments consisting of regulations’ Eph 2:15;​

That's right, IF... we walk by The Spirit then 'we'... are dead to the law. That does not mean the law is no more for the lawless and disobedient like Paul showed in 1 Tim.1.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's right, IF... we walk by The Spirit then 'we'... are dead to the law. That does not mean the law is no more for the lawless and disobedient like Paul showed in 1 Tim.1.

No we are dead to the law once we have come to Christ in faith (gal 3)

If you want to be a slave, be a slave..

Gal 3: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, [SUP]26 [/SUP]for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith

 

[DP]

Yep. well you have not done a good job of that Your trying to place us back under law. and rejecting grace..



Then this same John lied in his gospel. when he said:
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Thanks, But I will believe Jesus, as he spoke through the written words of John, That I have in possession eternal life. and I shall not come into judgment, because i have passed from death to life (been born again)

Not your misinterpreted version of 1 John 1: 9

If you go out and commit murder, steal, do fornication, adultery, i.e., those things Paul showed in Gal.5 that are works of the flesh, THEN you do... put yourself back under bondage to the law. Like I've mentioned before, many of the laws in the western Christian nations originally came from God's laws in His Word The Bible, and many of them are still on the books in those nations today.

So by trying to turn this into some straw man argument, that is going against God's order of things under our Lord Jesus Christ. Like Paul said in 1 Tim.1, the law was made for the "lawless and disobedient", and that still has not changed.

 

[DP]

No we are dead to the law once we have come to Christ in faith (gal 3)

If you want to be a slave, be a slave..

Gal 3: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, [SUP]26 [/SUP]for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith

What happens to the believer if they fall away from that Faith?

If you believe the OSAS doctrine of men, then it would mean even the unrepentent murderer will be allowed to get away with it!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's right, IF... we walk by The Spirit then 'we'... are dead to the law. That does not mean the law is no more for the lawless and disobedient like Paul showed in 1 Tim.1.

You are not comprehending what Paul said. There is no IF. Those who have been baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. They have put off the body of flesh and are considered dead to the law in GOD's eyes. This is not something that gets repeated over and over.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4​

We don't come under the law if we are not led of the spirit because legally we are dead to the law.

If we walk in the spirit, we are not under the dos and don'ts of (any) law. If we don't walk in the spirit, then we have no covering and are naked. If we don't repent and walk in the spirit, then we will look for something external to justify ourselves (i.e., some kind of law).

 

[KJV1611]

Here's a sure way to know if you're walking in the spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If the Spirit of God dwells in you then you are walking in the spirit and not the flesh. It has nothing to do with law keeping.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's a sure way to know if you're walking in the spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If the Spirit of God dwells in you then you are walking in the spirit and not the flesh. It has nothing to do with law keeping.

It says if you do not have the spirit you are not of God. Nothing about how one walks.

 

[KJV1611]

It says if you do not have the spirit you are not of God. Nothing about how one walks.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What does the part in red say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

What does the part in red say?

It says you are not in the flesh, but the spirit. IF THE SPIRIT of GOD DWELL IN YOU.

Nothing more nothing else.

 

[KJV1611]

It says you are not in the flesh, but the spirit. IF THE SPIRIT of GOD DWELL IN YOU.

Nothing more nothing else.

Hey that's what I said to begin with. Maybe a little more context will help.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.

If the Spirit of God dwells in us then we do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey that's what I said to begin with. Maybe a little more context will help.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Talking about those who walk after the flesh and those that walk after the Spirit.

If the Spirit of God dwells in us then we do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This talks about walking after the flesh..

It does not say your in the flesh vs in the spirit.

Context and wording my friend..

 

[DP]

You are not comprehending what Paul said. There is no IF. Those who have been baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. They have put off the body of flesh and are considered dead to the law in GOD's eyes. This is not something that gets repeated over and over.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4​

We don't come under the law if we are not led of the spirit because legally we are dead to the law.

If we walk in the spirit, we are not under the dos and don'ts of (any) law. If we don't walk in the spirit, then we have no covering and are naked. If we don't repent and walk in the spirit, then we will look for something external to justify ourselves (i.e., some kind of law).

Sorry, but there is an "if" in what Paul said in Galatians 5:

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV

Look at 1 Corinthians 5, where one of the members there was having sexual intercourse with his own mother.

Paul said to cast that one out to Satan, so that his spirit might be saved in the day of The Lord Jesus (i.e, future Millennium).

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV



Now if that one repented of that sin, and made a change, and asked forgiveness of Christ, and also his brethren there, he would be accepted back into the fold (which is what I believed eventually happened).

So, by what measuring tool was Apostle Paul using to judge that sinner in order to cast him out of Christ's body of members there?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, but there is an "if" in what Paul said in Galatians 5:

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV

Look at 1 Corinthians 5, where one of the members there was having sexual intercourse with his own mother.

Paul said to cast that one out to Satan, so that his spirit might be saved in the day of The Lord Jesus (i.e, future Millennium).

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV



Now if that one repented of that sin, and made a change, and asked forgiveness of Christ, and also his brethren there, he would be accepted back into the fold (which is what I believed eventually happened).

So, by what measuring tool was Apostle Paul using to judge that sinner in order to cast him out of Christ's body of members there?

are you perfect?

 

[DP]

are you perfect?

When I ask Jesus forgiveness of my sins, and He cleanses me, yes. And a lot of the time I have need to do that daily.

Whenever I repeat the prayer He gave us to pray per Luke 11, which I do often, He showed us to ask "forgive us our sins":

Luke 11:2-4
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, "Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
KJV