Whatever people say the mark of the beast is: its a lie.
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In Revelation 13:15 those who refuse to worship the image are physically killed by the beast,(not spiritually like those who do worship the image).
In Revelation 19:21 the ones who did worship the image and took the mark are given to the sword(killed) and were spiritually dead already(took the mark/worshiped the image) and so this is impossible to see as spiritual and agree with Scripture...
In Revelation 19:21 the ones who did worship the image and took the mark are given to the sword(killed) and were spiritually dead already(took the mark/worshiped the image) and so this is impossible to see as spiritual and agree with Scripture...
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When looking at the signified language inspired by God of Revelation ( Revelation 1:1 ) Why would a person literalize the apparent spiritual understanding. It begins with. If any man have an ear, let him hear. All men have literal ears . that parable is filed with metaphors.
It is not saying they will be killed with a literal sword any more that just they are not literally led to captivity.But led captivity in respect to our mind or thoughts . Swords are used to represent authority in that verse . The sword of the Spirit represents the word of God. it has the power of life and death .those who love it eat of that fruit those who hate it stay away fro the sword of the Spirit. The beast coming up is the father of poisonous lies. He does great signs as lying wonders (a source of faith)
If any man have an ear, let him hear.He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,9-13
It is not saying they will be killed with a literal sword any more that just they are not literally led to captivity.But led captivity in respect to our mind or thoughts . Swords are used to represent authority in that verse . The sword of the Spirit represents the word of God. it has the power of life and death .those who love it eat of that fruit those who hate it stay away fro the sword of the Spirit. The beast coming up is the father of poisonous lies. He does great signs as lying wonders (a source of faith)
If any man have an ear, let him hear.He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,9-13
I follow you but you skipped most of the tribulation I think. The famine spoken of in Amos 8:11will be the result of the saint's being taken away. When that happens, with no one left to preach the gospel or stand against the beasts and the last antichrist all of the Bibles will be taken away and the Word of God will be preached no more. Satanic chaos like never seen before will rule the day.
I used to study under Dr. Walter Martin (the original Bible answer man radio show) from the Christian Research Institute in Capistrano Beach at Melodyland Christian Center (where I worked), near Disneyland. He was one of the few Theologians I ever met who would openly admit he did know clearly enough to teach if the rapture would be pre, mid or post, but he was inclined to believe it would be pre or mid. You've got to respect a (scholar who admits they don't know something) (most are too full of themselves to do that.) Since then I steer clear of that particular topic.
But I believe the mark will be tangible, made of solid matter and visible so if it comes before the rapture I choose death before the mark.
The reason I think or suspect one of the antichrists syndicates will come from the financial sector is the prohibition of business transactions (including buying groceries) without it. It would be far easier to control people via finance than military. So my motto is just get ready, stay ready, be ready because this life is only temporary.
I used to study under Dr. Walter Martin (the original Bible answer man radio show) from the Christian Research Institute in Capistrano Beach at Melodyland Christian Center (where I worked), near Disneyland. He was one of the few Theologians I ever met who would openly admit he did know clearly enough to teach if the rapture would be pre, mid or post, but he was inclined to believe it would be pre or mid. You've got to respect a (scholar who admits they don't know something) (most are too full of themselves to do that.) Since then I steer clear of that particular topic.
But I believe the mark will be tangible, made of solid matter and visible so if it comes before the rapture I choose death before the mark.
The reason I think or suspect one of the antichrists syndicates will come from the financial sector is the prohibition of business transactions (including buying groceries) without it. It would be far easier to control people via finance than military. So my motto is just get ready, stay ready, be ready because this life is only temporary.
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lol, You didn't address the two Scriptures I gave...
In Revelation 13:15 those who are killed for (not) worshiping the image are (not) killed spiritually they are physically killed by the beast because they wont worship the image. If they (did) fall to the deception of the false prophet and worship the image and receive it's mark then they would be spiritually dead because they did . So those who (refuse) to worship the image are spirituality alive and so the only death they could suffer at the hands of the beast for not worshiping it's image is a carnal,physical death.
In Revelation 19:21 those who (do) worship the image and receive the mark are spiritually dead because they are deceived and worship the image and receive it's mark. So at the timing of Rev.19:21 they are already spirituality dead because they worshiped the image and there is no need to spiritually slay them and carnal,physical death is all that remains.
O
Right!!
NOT!!
There HAVE NEVER been beasts that could literally spew fire from their mouths, nor will there EVER BE!! But, there will be fighter planes that can fire ammunition and missiles that would appear 2,000 years ago like a flying beast that shoots fire from its mouth.
Even tall buildings, made from todays engineering and materials would appear more like giant beasts. Then if you turned on specific lights on a given side of the building (like we do when football games are on and the buildings surrounding the city read GO BOYS (for Go Cowboys) in random light arrangements from floor to floor. Add the image of a smile with eyes in random light arrangements, and 2,000 years ago people would have envisioned a smiling giant.
Sometimes, it is just best to grasp the obvious. And if someone is unable to do as such, then ask someone who has a clue!!
Yes possibly could have envisioned a smiling giant. The city of Christ, the new heavenly Jerusalem is envisioned as a bride. God assigns meaning to the metaphors he uses in parables.
What kind of clue is it I do not have.?.Don't search for the hidden spiritual understandings in parables? Pretend the kingdom of God comes by observation?
OK . So then are you saying we are to wrestle against flesh and blood using the things seen the temporal . Do we turn our plowshares to plant the incorruptible seed into fighter planes that can fire ammunition and missiles?
What kind of clue is it I do not have.?.Don't search for the hidden spiritual understandings in parables? Pretend the kingdom of God comes by observation?
OK . So then are you saying we are to wrestle against flesh and blood using the things seen the temporal . Do we turn our plowshares to plant the incorruptible seed into fighter planes that can fire ammunition and missiles?
He that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. That phrase; "live by the sword die by the sword" simply means what comes around goes around. There is nothing in that verse I could see that would indicate literal heads a flying.
Rather than a literal mark as a sign . It represent the doctrine of the surety of the word of God. Who is watching to make sure his word is performed as spoken to Jeremiah 1 .
The principle "live by the sword die by the sword" or "vengeance is mine says the Lord".
Cain whose punishment suffering the pang of hell separated from God.It was more that he could bear (that which Christ did bear) And said when they find me they will kill me. God who has vengeance of those he says he will did finish the work to the end Cain suffering. with no relief in life a restless wanderer. A mark of the surety of his Living word
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:14-15
Rather than a literal mark as a sign . It represent the doctrine of the surety of the word of God. Who is watching to make sure his word is performed as spoken to Jeremiah 1 .
The principle "live by the sword die by the sword" or "vengeance is mine says the Lord".
Cain whose punishment suffering the pang of hell separated from God.It was more that he could bear (that which Christ did bear) And said when they find me they will kill me. God who has vengeance of those he says he will did finish the work to the end Cain suffering. with no relief in life a restless wanderer. A mark of the surety of his Living word
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:14-15
Then beginning with Cain tell us the things that were spiritual carnal in the bible...
Cain slew Able physically or spiritually? Noah built an ark and the wold was destroyed by a flood spiritually o did it actually physically take place? Abram was told to get out of Ur spiritually,or actually leave and go where God said?
Did Abraham's children spiritually go into bondage or really? were the plagues in Egypt spiritual or did they actually undergo them at the hand of God? Did Moses really lead them out of Egypt or just spiritually? Did they enter the promised land for real or did they just spiritually?
When Solomon's temple was destroyed and Israel and Judah taken into captivity was it for real or just spiritual? In the four beast described in Daniel did the really rule the earth or just Spiritually? Babylon and Assyria did they actually come with armies and kill with swords and bow or was it spiritual?
Did the M/Persians actually rule after Babylon and then Greece and then Rome or was this spiritual? What about Sodom and Gomorrah did God do this Spiritually? When Jesus came was it real and physical or just spiritual? When they Crucified our Lord was it physical? When Jesus said they would be taken before governors and some killed did he mean spiritually or for real?
Gods M.O. is rather apparent up to Revelation, that is he says what is going to take place and it does. In Isaiah 46:10 God tells us that he tells us the things that he will do before actually happen https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+46:10&version=KJV can you name something God said would happen that has not litterally been done?
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An intriguing idea re 'the mark' is one I think sounds as plausible as the other suggestions.
As in the days of Noah, when God wiped out the world and left Noah and his family, it was because He saw all of humanity at that time corrupted. They were into transhumanism, aka hybridism, that corrupted their God-given gene pools.
An interesting theory I heard was that this anti-Christ, could offer an 'upgraded' DNA insert. He could sell it as giving perfect health, youth and longevity etc.
Of course, a changed gene pool or DNA, would be anathema to those in the know and would refuse it as unholy.
An interesting theory, because let's say during a time of upheaval of some sort, how many would fall for this great apostasy, offered by this coming dynamic figure ( who in the orig Hebrew is something other than a normal human species). Esp if it is connected with a monetary collapse.
Of course, I believe, Christians who are ready will be taken up, but that's another train of thought.
God be with us, whatever is coming to pass.
As in the days of Noah, when God wiped out the world and left Noah and his family, it was because He saw all of humanity at that time corrupted. They were into transhumanism, aka hybridism, that corrupted their God-given gene pools.
An interesting theory I heard was that this anti-Christ, could offer an 'upgraded' DNA insert. He could sell it as giving perfect health, youth and longevity etc.
Of course, a changed gene pool or DNA, would be anathema to those in the know and would refuse it as unholy.
An interesting theory, because let's say during a time of upheaval of some sort, how many would fall for this great apostasy, offered by this coming dynamic figure ( who in the orig Hebrew is something other than a normal human species). Esp if it is connected with a monetary collapse.
Of course, I believe, Christians who are ready will be taken up, but that's another train of thought.
God be with us, whatever is coming to pass.
Good day TabinRivCA,
The mark will be that proverbial line being drawn in the sand. During that time, it will separate once and for all, those who are for God and those who are not.
At some point, during the middle of that last seven years, all other forms of buying and selling will become obsolete, with that mark/device/implant, becoming the only valid way of electronically crediting and debiting one's bank account (buying and selling). It will therefore force people into making a decision to receive it or reject it. Those who receive it, will do so in order to be able to continue being apart of the world economy, i.e. having a job, paying their mortgages/rent, buying food, paying debts and everything else.
Those who receive the mark, will do so to save their mortal lives, while the saints during the great tribulation will reject it for the sake of God and the hope of eternal life. As the scriptures states regarding them "they will not love their lives so much as to shrink away from death while keeping their testimony of Jesus and the word of God. They will not worship the beast, his image, nor receive his mark in their hands or foreheads.
The people of the world are concerned for their well being and the things of this life, While the focus of believer's is on Jesus and His promise of eternal life, or at least it should be.
"Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things." - Col.3:1-2
The mark will be that proverbial line being drawn in the sand. During that time, it will separate once and for all, those who are for God and those who are not.
At some point, during the middle of that last seven years, all other forms of buying and selling will become obsolete, with that mark/device/implant, becoming the only valid way of electronically crediting and debiting one's bank account (buying and selling). It will therefore force people into making a decision to receive it or reject it. Those who receive it, will do so in order to be able to continue being apart of the world economy, i.e. having a job, paying their mortgages/rent, buying food, paying debts and everything else.
Those who receive the mark, will do so to save their mortal lives, while the saints during the great tribulation will reject it for the sake of God and the hope of eternal life. As the scriptures states regarding them "they will not love their lives so much as to shrink away from death while keeping their testimony of Jesus and the word of God. They will not worship the beast, his image, nor receive his mark in their hands or foreheads.
The people of the world are concerned for their well being and the things of this life, While the focus of believer's is on Jesus and His promise of eternal life, or at least it should be.
"Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things." - Col.3:1-2
He always seems polite,,I suppose him to be reading about this and trying to understand it as well as he can like the rest of us. We all seem to have different Ideas about it and I might see ones Ideas as a little shy, but mine own what if I understand this,this and this but I am a little incorrect in that? I think if I look in a critical manner at others opinions then mine own also should be included in the lot,lol.
I mean no offense in this to anyone. We could and basically do post one after the other and say what we see Scriptures as meaning. We fill up thread after thread and at the end of the day none of us agree on every detail. At first I saw this in great fear because I thought I myself had missed the point or something like in https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm ....
From verse 13 onward Paul comforts the Thessalonians even though as it seems they thought the day of the Lord was then present. I see that as a great comfort in that Paul ,an Apostle knew that the Thessalonians did not understand the very things we speak of and still saw them as chosen,in the sanctification of the Spirit by faith of the truth and Paul/we thanked God always for them. So not understanding this did not set them away as outsiders according to the Scriptures.
We in general only debate Thess. in debates of rapture,second coming ect. so I thought to touch the comfort in it in that they were seen as beloved although they did not understand eschatology...
I mean no offense in this to anyone. We could and basically do post one after the other and say what we see Scriptures as meaning. We fill up thread after thread and at the end of the day none of us agree on every detail. At first I saw this in great fear because I thought I myself had missed the point or something like in https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2.htm ....
From verse 13 onward Paul comforts the Thessalonians even though as it seems they thought the day of the Lord was then present. I see that as a great comfort in that Paul ,an Apostle knew that the Thessalonians did not understand the very things we speak of and still saw them as chosen,in the sanctification of the Spirit by faith of the truth and Paul/we thanked God always for them. So not understanding this did not set them away as outsiders according to the Scriptures.
We in general only debate Thess. in debates of rapture,second coming ect. so I thought to touch the comfort in it in that they were seen as beloved although they did not understand eschatology...
Spiritual carnal, which one?
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Cain like Abel was born into a temporal corrupted body and corrupted spirit. Born without a exclusive faith that could please God. Mankind (unconverted) is typified the number 666. Created on the 6th, day .Three time denotes a end to the matter. Three is used that way through the scripture.
When Abel in whom God did have born again favor on.(grace) Abel then being equipped with the armor of God through the hearing of faith, heard God, and followed the commandment of God in order to bring the good new to Cain.
Because Cain did not trust in God he could not see . Satan as the father of lies the spirit within Cain proved to be a murderer from the beginning as the manner of spirit. Abel held out the gospel and because Cain had no faith (relationship with God unseen) To prove it he murdered his brother in order for him to rid what he thought was the only evidence a literal body. Thinking it would put a end to the matter.. Like seeing is believing (natural man)
Then Cain still in unbelief (no faith, none ) tried to bargain with God for lesser penalty and even instructed God it would not be carried out. Because when they find the murder they would kill Cain. God who changes not as a God of His word who does not share his vengeance or wrath with men .In affect said "mark my word " if any murder Cain he will take out his revenge on them. it is that mark that is referenced by metaphorical word Six hundred and sixty six. If Cain would of bought the truth (believed God) rather than selling it, seeing no value in the things of god . Then God could use another that saw no value in spiritual things (666) Like Esua natural unconverted man who sold his birth rite like Cain for a cup of soup.
The buying and selling has to do with spiritual things. God's sends famaines for hearing the gospel not the bread needed to maintain these bodies.
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Abraham's children were born in bondage to the spirit of this world They must be born again like Abel.
I don't see what that has to do with the subject matter. Of course when God says "mark my word". He does not mean take a pencil or pen underline or bolden it as to the literal letter. But rather it speaks to the Spirit of the word. When he said ; I will carry out the punishment, one that humans were not designed to bear . Suffering a living hell with no rest coming from God .He will bring it to pass. Cain did bear it. Christ bore Abel's sin giving him eternal rest.
And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark (666) upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him Genesis 4: 13-15
When John penned Revelation he knew the mark 666 ( not a sign, observable) had to do with unbelief no faith. And not the stock market as to its buying and selling of goods needed maintain the bodies of death .
Christ will come as a thief in the night just as in the days of Noah. We have the privelidege to watch for it as did Noah but it will still come when one is not expecting it on the last day.
We walk by faith. The mark (666) we were born with is replaced with a seal on our forehead or hand (777) it speaks of His perfection .used to represent our new mind and will to do the work of the father . He warns us of those who seek after as sign and wonders gospel. The gospel of human excitement or emotions and not of faith that gives us His rest.
.There is not outward sign given as a wonderment (source of faith).
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Cain like Abel was born into a temporal corrupted body and corrupted spirit. Born without a exclusive faith that could please God. Mankind (unconverted) is typified the number 666. Created on the 6th, day .Three time denotes a end to the matter. Three is used that way through the scripture.
When Abel in whom God did have born again favor on.(grace) Abel then being equipped with the armor of God through the hearing of faith, heard God, and followed the commandment of God in order to bring the good new to Cain.
Because Cain did not trust in God he could not see . Satan as the father of lies the spirit within Cain proved to be a murderer from the beginning as the manner of spirit. Abel held out the gospel and because Cain had no faith (relationship with God unseen) To prove it he murdered his brother in order for him to rid what he thought was the only evidence a literal body. Thinking it would put a end to the matter.. Like seeing is believing (natural man)
Then Cain still in unbelief (no faith, none ) tried to bargain with God for lesser penalty and even instructed God it would not be carried out. Because when they find the murder they would kill Cain. God who changes not as a God of His word who does not share his vengeance or wrath with men .In affect said "mark my word " if any murder Cain he will take out his revenge on them. it is that mark that is referenced by metaphorical word Six hundred and sixty six. If Cain would of bought the truth (believed God) rather than selling it, seeing no value in the things of god . Then God could use another that saw no value in spiritual things (666) Like Esua natural unconverted man who sold his birth rite like Cain for a cup of soup.
The buying and selling has to do with spiritual things. God's sends famaines for hearing the gospel not the bread needed to maintain these bodies.
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Abraham's children were born in bondage to the spirit of this world They must be born again like Abel.
I don't see what that has to do with the subject matter. Of course when God says "mark my word". He does not mean take a pencil or pen underline or bolden it as to the literal letter. But rather it speaks to the Spirit of the word. When he said ; I will carry out the punishment, one that humans were not designed to bear . Suffering a living hell with no rest coming from God .He will bring it to pass. Cain did bear it. Christ bore Abel's sin giving him eternal rest.
And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark (666) upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him Genesis 4: 13-15
When John penned Revelation he knew the mark 666 ( not a sign, observable) had to do with unbelief no faith. And not the stock market as to its buying and selling of goods needed maintain the bodies of death .
Christ will come as a thief in the night just as in the days of Noah. We have the privelidege to watch for it as did Noah but it will still come when one is not expecting it on the last day.
We walk by faith. The mark (666) we were born with is replaced with a seal on our forehead or hand (777) it speaks of His perfection .used to represent our new mind and will to do the work of the father . He warns us of those who seek after as sign and wonders gospel. The gospel of human excitement or emotions and not of faith that gives us His rest.
.There is not outward sign given as a wonderment (source of faith).
LOL They distort the word of God by literalizing the "signified" language of prophecy so they can rather walk by sight .The inspired word as God's poetic language used in parable throughout the scripture is not subject to change.
Jesus said without parables he spoke not to both those who believe (have the born again faith of Christ which comes from hearing God) and those who believe not (no faith) He designed the signified meaning hid from the literalist in Revelation, because it destroys what they believe (walking by sight) as if the kingdom did come by observation . Literal chains holding lying spirts not seen or bottomless pits. or a literal key that unlock the literal gates of hell. No signified meaning.
I would think why would we for a literal understanding when clearly in the opening statement? He informs us of the kind of language (signified) he used to inspire his word. Do we simply ignore it in exchange for a literal meaning?
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:
And not sent and "literalized it"
Jesus said without parables he spoke not to both those who believe (have the born again faith of Christ which comes from hearing God) and those who believe not (no faith) He designed the signified meaning hid from the literalist in Revelation, because it destroys what they believe (walking by sight) as if the kingdom did come by observation . Literal chains holding lying spirts not seen or bottomless pits. or a literal key that unlock the literal gates of hell. No signified meaning.
I would think why would we for a literal understanding when clearly in the opening statement? He informs us of the kind of language (signified) he used to inspire his word. Do we simply ignore it in exchange for a literal meaning?
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:
And not sent and "literalized it"
Hours upon hours spent in vain, neither side conceding nor budging in the face of obvious errors. I guess it’s better than hours wasted on beating the top score on Donkey Kong. Most of us, if not all of us will even be here to settle this literal vs figurative mark debate. This happens after two thirds of the population is wiped out, and a possible rapture takes place. It is then out of the ashes and dust of the physically devastated world a leader rises to govern. I’m not convinced it will be human. So much will happen before we are even confronted with this dilemma.
ok,So from what you've said Abel was given faith but Cain was not. In Ephesians 2:8 and 1 Corinthians 12:9 https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/12/9/s_1074009 ,,, https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eph/2/1-22/s_1099001 faith is said to be a "gift" given by God why do you think God gave faith to Abel and not to Cain? I ask this because if your correct then God is who is giving both the mark of God and the MoS (I don't think so but...)