When are we saved ?

[throughfaith]

No, because I still say God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

CHOSEN IN HIM is in reference to the verb, the act of choosing, NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

I don't believe God chose rocks or cats ?

 

[OIC1965]

I don't believe God chosen rocks or cats ?

God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

IN HIM is in reference to the verb, (the act of choosing) NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

 

[throughfaith]

God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

CHOSEN IN HIM is in reference to the verb, the act of choosing, NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

And Eph 2.11-12 ? how does that tie in ?

 

[OIC1965]

And Eph 2.11-12 ? how does that tie in ?

We were known before time. We were saved IN time.

How long are you going to fight and wrestle against the clear fact that Paul said that God chose us before the foundation of the world. The only argument you had to stand on, the fact that we weren't in Him before we were saved has been refuted because the phrase "in HIm" has been clearly demonstrated to not be saying any such thing.

So you have God acting before the foundation of the world,

the act is the act of choosing,

the direct object of the act is US,

God chose us before the foundation of the world. How much clearer could Paul get?

 

[throughfaith]

God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

IN HIM is in reference to the verb, (the act of choosing) NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

So you mean he chose Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, doug ..not Tommy, not scot , not Rosie...ect ?

 

[throughfaith]

We were chosen before time. We were saved in time.

How long are you going to fight and wrestle against the clear fact that Paul said that God chose us before the foundation of the world. The only argument you had to stand on, the fact that we weren't in Him before we were saved has been refuted because the phrase "in HIm" has been clearly demonstrated to not be saying any such thing. So you have God acting before the foundation of the world, the act is the act of choosing, the direct object of the act is US, God chose us before the foundation of the world. How much clearer could Paul get?

Ah I see . chosen individually out side of Christ and awoken in time to be put back in Christ after being lost in the fall ect . This is doctrines of demons.

 

[OIC1965]

So you mean he chose Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, doug ..not Tommy, not scot , not Rosie...ect ?

Did He save Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, Doug, but not Tommy, not Scot, not Rosie?

Did God chose people before the foundation of the world that would never be saved?

 

[OIC1965]

Ah I see . chosen individually out side of Christ and awoken in time to be put back in Christ after being lost in the fall ect . This is doctrines of demons.

Put back into Christ? Where does the Bible say that we were in Christ before we were placed in Christ when we were saved?

It has already been demonstrated CLEARLY that the phrase "in Him" has nothing to do with our spatial existence or with us at all. "in Christ" is in reference to the VERB, not the object. See 2 Timothy 1:9 where a similar construction is used.

 

[throughfaith]

Did He save Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, Doug, but not Tommy, not Scot, not Rosie?

Did God chose people before the foundation of the world that would never be saved?

Not according to the bible no. Nor did God choose individuals to be saved either.

 

[OIC1965]

Not according to the bible no. Nor did God choose individuals to be saved either.

He did choose people to be holy and without blame before Him in love.

And in addition, It has already been demonstrated CLEARLY that the phrase "in Him" has nothing to do with our spatial existence or with us at all. "in Christ" is in reference to the VERB, not the object. See 2 Timothy 1:9 where a similar construction is used.

so the only argument you had has been rebutted. You're just fighting against and wrestling with scriptures.

 

[OIC1965]

Not according to the bible no. Nor did God choose individuals to be saved either.

In 2 Timothy 1:9, what does the phrase 'given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began" mean?

 

[throughfaith]

He did choose people to be holy and without blame before Him in love.

And in addition, It has already been demonstrated CLEARLY that the phrase "in Him" has nothing to do with our spatial existence or with us at all. "in Christ" is in reference to the VERB, not the object. See 2 Timothy 1:9 where a similar construction is used.

so the only argument you had has been rebutted. You're just fighting against and wrestling with scriptures.

The English is perfectly fine as I've posted .

 

[throughfaith]

In 2 Timothy 1:9, what does the phrase "in Christ Jesus" mean and what is it in reference to?

I've already addressed 2tim 1.9 twice . ?

 

[OIC1965]

I've already addressed 2tim 1.9 twice . ?

You have not stated what "given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began" means.

I've answered a number of your questions numerous times, over and over again. So please show the same courtesy and answer this question for me.

 

[OIC1965]

The English is perfectly fine as I've posted .

You had NO ARGUMENT except the "we weren't in Christ until we were saved" argument, and 2 Timothy 1: 9 invalidates that argument in english and in Greek. revealing that that argument is based on a serious error in interpretation on your part.

So please answer the question that is on the table.

 

[OIC1965]

The English that clears up the Greek is found in 2 Timothy 1:9 There, we are told that “before the world began” (as Eph. 1:4), God gave us certain things; but these things were only “given us IN CHRIST JESUS” and, therefore, to get them, you had to get “in” Him! 2. Observe the close similarity between the wording of 2 Timothy 1:9–10 and Ephesians. 1:4–5. The meaning, then, is clear. “Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” unless they were “in Christ.” Jesus Christ was to be the medium through which all blessings would be dispensed (vs. 10), and we can only be “accepted in the beloved” (vs. 6). You were not “in the beloved” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. You were not “in Christ” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. Christ had no “Body” until Acts 2 into which you could enter (John 17:23); therefore, the entire system of Calvinism—where it deals with election—is a nullity. Predestination (vs. 5) always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (Rom. 8:29), and election always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (1 Pet. 1:2).
( From an earlier post .)

Here is one of your responses to 2 Timothy 1:9.

Look at the part in RED. You admit that God gave us certain things before the world began, but we don't receive them until we are in Christ Jesus. In other words, given before time and received in time.

SOUND FAMILIAR????

SAME argument I am using for election. Chosen before time, saved in time.



OK, God chose us before time and we are saved in time. Glad we agree on that.

 

[throughfaith]

You have not stated what "given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began" means.

I've answered a number of your questions numerous times, over and over again. So please show the same courtesy and answer this question for me.

what didn't I say when I referred to 2 tim ?

 

[OIC1965]

The English that clears up the Greek is found in 2 Timothy 1:9 There, we are told that “before the world began” (as Eph. 1:4), God gave us certain things; but these things were only “given us IN CHRIST JESUS” and, therefore, to get them, you had to get “in” Him! 2. Observe the close similarity between the wording of 2 Timothy 1:9–10 and Ephesians. 1:4–5. The meaning, then, is clear. “Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” unless they were “in Christ.” Jesus Christ was to be the medium through which all blessings would be dispensed (vs. 10), and we can only be “accepted in the beloved” (vs. 6). You were not “in the beloved” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. You were not “in Christ” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. Christ had no “Body” until Acts 2 into which you could enter (John 17:23); therefore, the entire system of Calvinism—where it deals with election—is a nullity. Predestination (vs. 5) always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (Rom. 8:29), and election always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (1 Pet. 1:2).
( From an earlier post .)

In the bolded part of your quote above, you completely refuted your own argument

If God can give us things in Christ before we are in Christ, it follows that He can also choose us in Christ before we are in Christ. You pulled to rug out from under your own feet.

 

[OIC1965]

In the bolded part of your quote above, you completely refuted your own argument

If God can give us things in Christ before we are in Christ, it follows that He can also choose us in Christ before we are in Christ. You pulled to rug out from under your own feet.

You also exposed the fallacious argument of the guy in the video you posted yesterday.

 

[throughfaith]

In the bolded part of your quote above, you completely refuted your own argument

If God can give us things in Christ before we are in Christ, it follows that He can also choose us in Christ before we are in Christ. You pulled to rug out from under your own feet.

Just a reminder . We don't exist . That should clear the fog here.