When did Jesus know he was the Son of God?
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1. "how was he sinless as a child growing up?"
This question is easy.
He was sinless because he had no sin.
He had no sin nature, and he never committed any kind of sin in word or deed.
We cannot "relate" to this, but it's a very simple proposition, and it really contains no paradox... it's very straightforward.
2. "When did Jesus know he was the Son of God?"
This question is much more difficult.
This goes beyond what Jesus did; this is about what Jesus actually KNEW during various times in the incarnation.
I'm not sure anyone has an answer for this.
It took the early church fathers CENTURIES just to sort out some kind of reasonable FOUNDATION about how the two natures of Christ could even exist together in the same person.
This is so confusing and paradoxical, that for a long time they didn't even know what kinds of words to use to even discuss it.
So... it certainly seems he knew who he was by the age of 12.
But the big questions about how much he knew and when... kind of a mystery.
- When exactly did his mortal mind develop enough to comprehend who he was?
- Or was this in some way voluntarily hidden from him till a certain age?
- Or did he in some way always understand it?
I don't think we have answers to these things.
I think the answer to some things is that we just don't have answers.
This question is easy.
He was sinless because he had no sin.
He had no sin nature, and he never committed any kind of sin in word or deed.
We cannot "relate" to this, but it's a very simple proposition, and it really contains no paradox... it's very straightforward.
2. "When did Jesus know he was the Son of God?"
This question is much more difficult.
This goes beyond what Jesus did; this is about what Jesus actually KNEW during various times in the incarnation.
I'm not sure anyone has an answer for this.
It took the early church fathers CENTURIES just to sort out some kind of reasonable FOUNDATION about how the two natures of Christ could even exist together in the same person.
This is so confusing and paradoxical, that for a long time they didn't even know what kinds of words to use to even discuss it.
So... it certainly seems he knew who he was by the age of 12.
But the big questions about how much he knew and when... kind of a mystery.
- When exactly did his mortal mind develop enough to comprehend who he was?
- Or was this in some way voluntarily hidden from him till a certain age?
- Or did he in some way always understand it?
I don't think we have answers to these things.
I think the answer to some things is that we just don't have answers.
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The 'tabernacle in the wilderness' profoundly reflects God's grace in its use of the number 5. This tabernacle, whose design was given directly by God, contained five curtains (Exodus 26:3), five bars (Exodus 26:26 - 27), five pillars and five sockets (Exodus 26:37) and an altar made of wood that was five cubits long and five cubits wide (Exodus 27:1). The height of the court within the tabernacle was five cubits (Exodus 27:18).
The Holy anointing oil (Exodus 30:23 - 25), the ingredients of which were given directly by God, was used to consecrate the furniture of the tabernacle. It was comprised of five parts, for it was a revelation of pure grace. The proportion of spices used in making the oil were a multiple of five, which then had a Hin of olive oil added to it.
Well the clue is already in the Bible so God already gave us the clue. Jesus -- Emmanuel -- is called "the Mighty God" and "the everlasting Father". So, the Son of God knew from eternity past who He was in relation to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. And when they were communicating internally about how man should be created, they said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness".
As to " I question the missing half of Jesus' life in the Bible", what is there to question? God -- in His infinite wisdom -- chose to hide that altogether, so that men would focus on the MAN Christ Jesus, not the child, the boy, or the youth.
Exactly what do you mean by this cryptic statement? Are you saying Jesus needed to learn elementary mathematics? He was teaching the learned (the "doctors" of theology) at the age of 12.
And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. (Lk 2:47).
As to " I question the missing half of Jesus' life in the Bible", what is there to question? God -- in His infinite wisdom -- chose to hide that altogether, so that men would focus on the MAN Christ Jesus, not the child, the boy, or the youth.
Exactly what do you mean by this cryptic statement? Are you saying Jesus needed to learn elementary mathematics? He was teaching the learned (the "doctors" of theology) at the age of 12.
And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. (Lk 2:47).
Z
How does He willingly choose to come to earth.. then not realize who He is until a certain time... Why or how would God not be aware that He is God? How does the process go? How do you regain awareness? Set a timer?
Nothing indicates He was never aware..
He later said He watched Satan fall like lightening.. He was fully aware of who He was. Had He gaps in memory He wouldn't be all knowing, know the end from the beginning etc.
Why add to as though it's mysterious. It's not. He's God and knows all things. Never does He not know
Nothing indicates He was never aware..
He later said He watched Satan fall like lightening.. He was fully aware of who He was. Had He gaps in memory He wouldn't be all knowing, know the end from the beginning etc.
Why add to as though it's mysterious. It's not. He's God and knows all things. Never does He not know
Good question, and the answer is also found in Scripture.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (Heb 10:5-9)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (Heb 10:5-9)
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Christ, in his incarnation, did NOT seem to have all knowledge of all things.
Before I continue, I want to say this is all very weird, paradoxical stuff.
Discussing how the INFINITE God operated within the confines of a FINITE personage... this is probably the sort of thing we can understand some, or better, but never fully.
So if I point out some scriptural errors, or logic problems; it's only an effort to clarify and take the discussion deeper, not to ridicule anyone.
Can Christ "not know" anything?
When referring to Christ in the incarnation, Zi made the statement, "Never does he not know."
Well, at least that gets right to the heart of the matter.
Is there a time when Christ did NOT KNOW some things?
Yes.
In reality there WERE matters, which at certain times, Christ in his incarnate form did NOT KNOW.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Here Christ talks of his second coming, and says that he does NOT know the exact time of his return.
If he is God, and knows ALL things, how can he NOT KNOW anything?
It seems that when Christ took on the limitations of an earthly body, he had to take on some cognitive limitations as well.
In his human form he simply did NOT KNOW EVERYTHING.
This is very clear and factual in scripture.
If Christ did "not know" some things, then where exactly did his divine knowledge go, and did it go somewhere?
Well, it would seem his divine knowledge could not have completely disappeared, because Christ WAS GOD, and omniscience is a necessary attribute of being God. So if his omniscience completely disappeared, it would seem he would have ceased to be God during the incarnation.
So... it seems his omniscience must have gone "somewhere", rather than just disappearing.
So where did his divine omniscience go?
We don't really know where his divine knowledge went, but some theologians and philosophers have some ideas.
- One theory of how this worked was that some of his divine knowledge was "willingly hidden" from him for a time... in some way. As an earthly man I don't have any way to hide my own knowledge from myself... but maybe this is something Christ was able to do in the incarnate state.
- Another theory is that perhaps it was dormant within his earthly subconscious mind for a while, so that it was still there, but he wasn't able to access it.
- There are different ideas about WHERE exactly his divine knowledge went, or HOW it was hidden from him during the incarnation.
I certainly have no idea how it worked, but it does seem that something of this sort DID happen in some way.
How much did Christ know and not know during the incarnation?
We don't seem to know.
A. He did seem to have a lot of supernatural knowledge that could only be divine.
B. But he was also limited in some ways, so we can't say he had complete omniscience.
How much did he know and not know at different times, like when he was a baby, or a small child?
We don't seem to know.
We don't even know the scope of his divine knowledge when he was an adult, so we certainly can't understand too much about it when he was a child... a period in his life where the scripture is mostly silent.
A. We know that as an adult he had a great deal of divine knowledge
B. We know that he didn't have full omniscience... some of it seems to have been willingly hidden from himself.
C. We know that by the time he was 12 he seemed to know he was the Son Of God.
D. We don't know too much on the subject beyond this.
E. We don't really know how much he understood as a baby before his brain was developed, or if he understood anything at all... the scripture just doesn't say much about this.
Additional Scripture:
Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
We do have this interesting verse from Luke, which AT LEAST shows Christ "grew in wisdom", showing that at the very least his wisdom started at a lesser degree than where it ended.
Many theologians feel this shows normal childhood development, where his mind developed, and his wisdom and understanding of spiritual things also developed.
But we don't know if maybe he always had some intuitive understanding of who he was, or if he had some very high divine "baseline" of wisdom when he started out at as a child, or if his spiritual or cognitive development was extraordinary long before we first encounter it at the age of twelve.
For that matter, he might have also increased in divine wisdom due to a great deal of direct revelation from the father... or possibly even direct revelation from somewhere within himself.
There's a lot we don't know.
Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
We do have this interesting verse from Luke, which AT LEAST shows Christ "grew in wisdom", showing that at the very least his wisdom started at a lesser degree than where it ended.
Many theologians feel this shows normal childhood development, where his mind developed, and his wisdom and understanding of spiritual things also developed.
But we don't know if maybe he always had some intuitive understanding of who he was, or if he had some very high divine "baseline" of wisdom when he started out at as a child, or if his spiritual or cognitive development was extraordinary long before we first encounter it at the age of twelve.
For that matter, he might have also increased in divine wisdom due to a great deal of direct revelation from the father... or possibly even direct revelation from somewhere within himself.
There's a lot we don't know.
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""""Re: When did Jesus know he was the Son of God? This question is much more difficult. This goes beyond what Jesus did; this is about what Jesus actually KNEW during various times in the incarnation. I'm not sure anyone has an answer for this."""" (I can't operate Reply or Reply with a quote, so I have to do it this way.) I tend to agree with you on this. There is no incontrovertible Scriptural evidence either way. We could say that since he was always truly God then he was fully aware of Himself from the moment of His conception. But then we controvert that by saying since He was truly man then He would have been a true infant, not able to form coherent thought until a bit later in His life. We also could point to Luke 1:40-42 and say this proves infants are aware and that proves The Infant Jesus was aware (this is a classic fallacy - if this is true, then that is true). We must not make Scripture conform to our human preconceptions. Incontrovertible evidence should be found only in Scripture. Does this make sense to anyone? In non-cardinal issues I would never want to dispute with anyone who NEEDS to believe a certain thing, such as trans-substantiation for instance, because I don't want to make him judge me and stumble. I AM my brother's keeper.
""""Re: When did Jesus know he was the Son of God? Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post When he found the support checks Mary received. Book of dunno 2:32. Flippancy does not help those who may be sincerely seeking."""" I'm pretty sure it was meant as a harmless joke 
I don't think God was offended.
I don't think God was offended. 
This is a tricky question.
Because as God the Son, He has full omniscience; therefore in that sense He has always known that He is the Son.
However, He did set aside some of His divine attributes when He became a man. How exactly that affected His knowledge, I don't know. What is known is that the Scriptures do say in various places that He knew what people's thoughts were.
I believe it's one of those mysteries concerning His being the God-man.
Because as God the Son, He has full omniscience; therefore in that sense He has always known that He is the Son.
However, He did set aside some of His divine attributes when He became a man. How exactly that affected His knowledge, I don't know. What is known is that the Scriptures do say in various places that He knew what people's thoughts were.
I believe it's one of those mysteries concerning His being the God-man.