When does the rapture occur?
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I am referring to this:
In Ac 3:21, Peter says that Jesus must "remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (Ro 8:19-23), which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness he tells us about in 2Pe 3:10-13, at the end of time, where there is no death (Rev 21:1-4--no death in the new heavens and new earth).
(1) Since Jesus must remain in heaven, there can be no appearing prior to his coming to restore all things which is the end of time, which therefore specifically locates the rapture at the end of time.
In Ac 3:21, Peter says that Jesus must "remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (Ro 8:19-23), which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness he tells us about in 2Pe 3:10-13, at the end of time, where there is no death (Rev 21:1-4--no death in the new heavens and new earth).
(1) Since Jesus must remain in heaven, there can be no appearing prior to his coming to restore all things which is the end of time, which therefore specifically locates the rapture at the end of time.
There is no need to dodge your argument...I am just trying to get your response to one topic then move on to the next.
I do agree on some of your argument so there is no need to discussed them..
Act 3:21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began..
Where it says that the times of restitution is the end of time? (only from your private interpretation)
Can you please refer which prophet spoke of this?
Even if you read Heb 9:27-28 one hundred times..you cannot find that Jesus will come at the end of time…(only from your private interpretation)
It did say that to those who look for him Jesus will appear the second time unto salvation.
Again..the verses you quoted does not mentioned the end of time…(only from your private interpretation)
These particular verse deals with the salvation of those who believed and God vengeance to unbelievers when Jesus appears…
Again…these verses talks about events preceding the appearing of Jesus Christ. It does not even locate it at the end of time (only from your private interpretations)
Which end time is it? because from the same book and chapter
1Pe 1:20On the one hand, he was foreknown before the creation of the world, but on the other hand, he was revealed at the end of time for your sake.
This is related to the verses in Acts 3:21
The verses does not talk about the end of time but the waiting of the redemption of the bodies which again is a form of “new creation”( from mortal to immortal)
OF all the verses you gave...you only showed your private interpretations...
I do agree on some of your argument so there is no need to discussed them..
Act 3:21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began..
Where it says that the times of restitution is the end of time? (only from your private interpretation)
Can you please refer which prophet spoke of this?
Even if you read Heb 9:27-28 one hundred times..you cannot find that Jesus will come at the end of time…(only from your private interpretation)
It did say that to those who look for him Jesus will appear the second time unto salvation.
Again..the verses you quoted does not mentioned the end of time…(only from your private interpretation)
These particular verse deals with the salvation of those who believed and God vengeance to unbelievers when Jesus appears…
Again…these verses talks about events preceding the appearing of Jesus Christ. It does not even locate it at the end of time (only from your private interpretations)
Which end time is it? because from the same book and chapter
1Pe 1:20On the one hand, he was foreknown before the creation of the world, but on the other hand, he was revealed at the end of time for your sake.
This is related to the verses in Acts 3:21
The verses does not talk about the end of time but the waiting of the redemption of the bodies which again is a form of “new creation”( from mortal to immortal)
OF all the verses you gave...you only showed your private interpretations...
your OP did not addressed my question...your meaning contradict the word of Jesus himself and Paul..
That Jesus must reign...
and in the regeneration those who followed Jesus shall governed/judge the twelve tribes of Israel..(mat 19:28, luke 22:30)
Do you reject this period of Jesus reign and the governance/judgement of Jesus followers in the regeneration?
Peter is talking about a total demolition not a restoration in 2 Pet 3.
In Acts, the restoration is being discussed.
21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
We have creation - corruption - judgment by flood - change of world - now we are going back to creation as it was. After the reign of Christ then we have total destruction and rebirth of new planet/earth/heaven.
In Acts, the restoration is being discussed.
21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
We have creation - corruption - judgment by flood - change of world - now we are going back to creation as it was. After the reign of Christ then we have total destruction and rebirth of new planet/earth/heaven.
Elin said:
When is the glorious liberty of the children of God?
In a regeneration to a pre-Noah earth, there is still decay, just as there was from Adam to Noah.
Freedom from decay occurs only in the new heavens and new earth,
and they occur only in eternity.
people Just loves to argue dont they.
The final Eternal State contains no living mortal people and no wickedness or sinners. So, if a passage contains any mention of a nation, or mortal beings, this is how we know it is millennial. For instance, Christ separates the sheep and goat nations. This happens during the millennium before the earth is destroyed because the goat nations will be gone before the new heaven/earth are created.
R
Not tying to argue, trying to get to the truth. We are keeping love and respect for one another. This issue isn't too important in our daily walk or lives. Elin has the correct position on the important stuff, like the timing of the rapture, etc. It's the existence of the millennium that we are debating.
The final Eternal State contains no living mortal people and no wickedness or sinners. So, if a passage contains any mention of a nation, or mortal beings, this is how we know it is millennial. For instance, Christ separates the sheep and goat nations. This happens during the millennium before the earth is destroyed because the goat nations will be gone before the new heaven/earth are created.
The final Eternal State contains no living mortal people and no wickedness or sinners. So, if a passage contains any mention of a nation, or mortal beings, this is how we know it is millennial. For instance, Christ separates the sheep and goat nations. This happens during the millennium before the earth is destroyed because the goat nations will be gone before the new heaven/earth are created.
Matthew 24:36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."
its there right in front of you.
trying to get the truth?? how much truth you want?
Matthew 24:36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
its there right in front of you.
Matthew 24:36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
its there right in front of you.
No, in the certain NT teaching of Ro 8:21 it occurs with creation's liberation from decay.
In a regeneration to a pre-Noah earth, there is still decay, just as there was from Adam to Noah.
Freedom from decay occurs only in the new heavens and new earth,
and they occur only in eternity.
In a regeneration to a pre-Noah earth, there is still decay, just as there was from Adam to Noah.
Freedom from decay occurs only in the new heavens and new earth,
and they occur only in eternity.
Is all of earthly creation i.e., heavens and earth going to be dissolved at the end or not? Do you have any passage that teaches a rapture of plants, trees, fish and animal life into the new heaven and earth??
If there is no rapture of plants and trees along with animal life into the new heaven then this part of creation cannot be groaning for extinction. Therefore they are groaning for restoration to a state they once had. Perhaps its to a pre-sin Adam state and not just a pre-flood state? That works for me for non-man creation.
Where does Peter say that???? I don't see where Peter says that
the Restoration we are discussing happens after the new heavens and earth are established.
the Restoration we are discussing happens after the new heavens and earth are established.
and uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles, which are validly interpreted by others to
mean things entirely different, and which do not add ton or alter certain NT teaching.
I am discussing a restoration that is found in certain NT teaching.
"We" are not discussing the same restoration.
The NT meaning of" the restoration of all things" is not taken from the building trade.
Peter teaches total destruction of earth, not the restoration of it. Words have meanings. Creation isn't groaning for extinction.
This is millennial or post millennial, it is not eternal state:
22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them. 24 "It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," Says the Lord.
This is millennial or post millennial and is NOT eternal state:
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Elin said:
In Ac 3:21, Peter says that Jesus must "remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything" (Ro 8:19-23), which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness he tells us about in 2Pe 3:10-13, at the end of time, where there is no death (Rev 21:1-4--no death in the new heavens and new earth).
(1) Since Jesus must remain in heaven, there can be no appearing prior to his coming to restore all things which is the end of time, which therefore specifically locates the rapture at the end of time.
(1) Since Jesus must remain in heaven, there can be no appearing prior to his coming to restore all things which is the end of time, which therefore specifically locates the rapture at the end of time.
Thanks.
Act 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Where it says that the times of restitution is the end of time? (only from your private intepretation).
Can you please refer which prophet spoke of this?
Where it says that the times of restitution is the end of time? (only from your private intepretation).
Can you please refer which prophet spoke of this?
In your other responses, you have not addressed the full explanations of the OP.
Please be so kind as to cut and paste it in a response to me.
Thanks.
That would be "prophets" Peter and Paul, the apostles.
In your other responses, you have not addressed the full explanations of the OP.
Thanks.
That would be "prophets" Peter and Paul, the apostles.
In your other responses, you have not addressed the full explanations of the OP.
Let start anew...
Do you reject that Jesus MUST reign and those who followed him shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel in the regeneration (mat 19:28, like 22:30, I cor 15:25)?
Regeneration being (After Jesus comes-whenever that maybe)
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your OP did not addressed my question...your meaning contradict the word of Jesus himself and Paul.. That Jesus must reign... and in the regeneration those who followed Jesus shall governed/judge the twelve tribes of Israel..(mat 19:28, luke 22:30)
Do you reject this period of Jesus reign and the governance/judgement of Jesus followers in the regeneration?
Do you reject this period of Jesus reign and the governance/judgement of Jesus followers in the regeneration?
but "at the regeneration."
"In" the regeneration is in the new heavens and earth.
"At" the regeneration is at the time of the end events--second coming, resurrection, rapture, judgment, new heavens and new earth.
I do not reject judgment at the regeneration.