When does the rapture occur?

Jason0047 · Jul 25, 2014

First, I am not basing the Pre-Trib Rapture off of just one verse. I have already presented my case with many Scripture verses beforehand that make this fact clear. The parable of the Virgins helps to reinforce or confirm the teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Second, I agree that God is not the author of confusion. However, the Lord our God does hide things from others for a good reason, though. For example: Christ talked in parables and not always in a clear and easy to understand way. Why did he do this? Because the mysteries of the Kingdom of God is not for those who are of this world. It is for those who study to show themselves approved unto God and who dedicate their lives to Him in everything that they do.

Cities are made up of people. The holy city of Jersalem up in Heaven is not an empty city in Heaven but it is filled with the saints. In fact, it has the name of the disciples written on the outside of it; And God says He goes to prepare a place for us. Where is God going to prepare a place for us? In the holy city of Jerusalem in Heaven. So when the Pre-Trib saints are Raptured, they will be taken to this city. Then when they receive their physical new bodies in the bodily resurrection, they will be able to worship God in the holy city of Jerusalem in the Eternal New Earth.

How do we know that the Bride is the church?

Well, Paul tells the Corinthians that we (the saints) are espoused to one husband and are presented as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:1-2
"Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

John tells us in Revelation that when the marriage supper of the Lamb has come, the Lamb's wife has made herself ready. How did she make herself ready? She arrayed herself in fine linen which was clean and white. John then defines what this fine white linen actually means. He says the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. He then continues to say, blessed are they who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Those who are called are obviously the saints seeing that is what is previously talked about in the verse right before it.

Revelation 19:7-10
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

In fact, the Parable of the Banquet (Matthew 22:1-14) lines up with what Revelation 19:7-10 says. For the person who was invited to the Son's wedding banquet who did not have on a wedding garment was cast into outer darkness. In other words, those believers who do not live righteously or who are not allowing Christ's righteousness to shine thru them (i.e. they are living in unrepentant sin), then they going to be cast into outer darkness.

Elin · Jul 25, 2014

Atwood said:

The same way I know God has two noses. . .
because Scripture does not say he has only one nose.

What Scripture does not say does prove one thing, that we cannot know it.
And what I cannot know according to Scripture, I would be foolish to assume.

Nowhere does Jesus teach two kingdoms of God.
Nowhere do we find two kingdoms in certain and unequivocal NT apostolic teaching.
That is a multiplying of things which are the same.

Two kingdoms are derived from private and uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which adds to NT teaching our own unauthorized human assumptions.[/quote]

When you provide proof that God does not have two noses. . .

Atwood, there is too much Scripture you do not understand.

Perhaps someone is willing to explain it to and unravel your misunderstandings for you.

Elin · Jul 25, 2014

Re: The Rapture is "At Hand," Imminent: Be Ready!

Atwood said:

Perhaps someone will explain 2Th 2:1 and the meaning of apostasy to you.

Kerry · Jul 25, 2014

The problems with a pretrib rapture. First, search and find anywhere in the OT where God destroyed believers with the unbelievers. A prime example is Abraham when the Lord visited Him and told Him that He was going to Sodom to destroy it. Abraham debated with God and God listened. But, when the rubber met the road, the angels got lot and His family out before it was destroyed and mind you it was not destroyed by invading forces nor an enemy, but by God.

Another example is that God sent a flood to destroy the wickedness but found Noah righteous and provided an escape for Him and the animals that had not sinned against Him.

God is not a respector of persons and what He has done for others He will do for you.

Atwood · Jul 25, 2014

Kerry said:

The problems with a pretrib rapture. First, search and find anywhere in the OT where God destroyed believers with the unbelievers. A prime example is Abraham when the Lord visited Him and told Him that He was going to Sodom to destroy it. Abraham debated with God and God listened. But, when the rubber met the road, the angels got lot and His family out before it was destroyed and mind you it was not destroyed by invading forces nor an enemy, but by God.

Another example is that God sent a flood to destroy the wickedness but found Noah righteous and provided an escape for Him and the animals that had not sinned against Him.

God is not a respector of persons and what He has done for others He will do for you.

On the flood, Enoch was raptured and thus missed out on the flood.

Atwood · Jul 25, 2014

Re: The Rapture is "At Hand," Imminent: Be Ready!

Elin said:

Perhaps someone will explain to you the difference between eisegesis & exegesis.

Now we beseech you, brethren, because of [Greek hyper can mean "because of"] the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that

Of course there is the Rapture there in 2 Thes 2:1. But it doesn't say it = the Day of the Lord. Of course, if there is a Rapture before the Day of the Lord, that truth would keep one's mind from being troubled.

Perhaps you will take the time to do a concordance check on "Day of the Lord" so that you can explain to yourself that Day of the Lord does not mean "the coming of our Lord."

PlainWord · Jul 25, 2014

I agree, Christ did hide things from the unbeliever, but we are not unbelievers. Therefore the things told us in the Bible are for our consumption. The verses you quoted along with the logic you use is 100% conjecture and actually conflicts with many, many sound and irrefutable doctrines and principles.

1. It is through many Tribulations we enter the Kingdom of God. We are promised persecution and nowhere is this teaching reversed for the End Times Saints.

2. Christ tells us He returns AFTER the Tribulation and nowhere is there a return with a Pre-Trib timing given.

3. We know multitudes of Christians are slaughtered during the Trib. You assume they are new believers, these so-call Tribulation Era Saints, however, we have no teaching that supports this.

4. We are told in a bunch of places to have Patience and Faith and to wait for Messiah. I take this to mean that we are not to be fooled by the False One who Paul teaches comes first. A Pre-Trib Rapture teaching could very well be the thing that leads so many Christians into deception.

Exactly, the 12 gates are named after the 12 tribes. There isn't a single gate named after a Church or Church leader.

Agreed, Jesus tells His disciples in John 14 that He is going to prepare a place. When they died, they went to that place. Those living don't go there because when Christ returns, He comes HERE. Thus the living stay with Christ here.

I stated that the Church is part of the Bride, it isn't the whole Bride. The "church" is made up of Jews and Gentiles, right? The first and biggest church of the day was Jewish in Jerusalem. This church had at least 8,000 members that we know of. We also know that the Church in Rome (The letter to the Roman's was written to this Jewish Church) was almost entirely Jewish.

Given this back drop, perhaps consider Hosea 2:19-20. God the Father has taken His Bride as Israel (Jews). Do we see two Brides? I think not. It's all about inclusiveness. The church was also warned by Paul not to be haughty thinking they were better than the natural branches (Romans 11).

Consider also that Zech 13 clearly tells us that 2/3 of Israel will be cut off and killed but 1/3 brought through fire and refined. Christian Jews in Israel are not accounted for. They make up 2% of the Jewish population in Israel yet no mention of their fate. According to you, they are Raptured, but according to Zechariah, they don't fit into his calculation.

Look, I've spent hundreds of hours debating pre-Tribbers to no avail. All I can tell you is that God gets the glory when He uses a small group to defeat overwhelming odds (Joshua, David, Gideon as examples). The church is removed so that when Christ returns, He and His small band of faithful believers who did not fall for the false one as most do, will defeat Satan and the world. The Pre-trib Rapture is the work of Satan and he will use it to destroy the church. That's why the Great Multitude is seen crying, hungry and thirsty in heaven. If you understand the symbolism of those words, maybe there is a chance for you.

Atwood · Jul 25, 2014

Elin said:

Beware of taking the name of the Lord in vain.

What you are doing is simple logical fallacy.

You mean you don't know you exist because scripture doesn't mention you?
You haven't proven what scripture does not say. Let's see your proof that scripture says there is but one Kingdom of God.
Prove or retract. I suggest that you take the time to do a concordance check of "kingdom of God" and see what you find.

Prove it. Prove that every time he uses the phrase "kingdom of God" it refers to the same kingdom.
And do the whole Bible.

Give your proof or retract.

Prove it. Prove that you are not right now maklng an unauthorized human assumption.
Your repeating yourself proves nothing.
[/QUOTE]

An ad hominem argument is another logical fallacy.

You claim there is only 1 kingdom of God.
Now you prove it, or retract.

cybertech · Jul 25, 2014

Atwood said:

Pardon me jumping in here off topic, but "God" isn't his name, it's his title. His name is YHWH, or Jehova. And if you are referring to God you aren't using his name in vain. You are using it with neccesity.

Ugly · Jul 25, 2014

cybertech said:

There are numerous threads on this already. Please don't hijack others threads. All it does is frustrate people.

Kerry · Jul 25, 2014

Re: The Rapture is "At Hand," Imminent: Be Ready!

Atwood said:

Why do we need to know these words unless we are seeking physical evidence or have doubts. From a Pentecostal to some form of Baptist, you just know and don't need Man's synopsis on it.

Ukorin · Jul 25, 2014

Atwood said:

The Church is the spiritual Kingdom (Spiritual Israel, if you don't mind the phrase).

His Kingdom grows with every soul saved from unbelief.

He is already fulfilling His role as the one from the root of Jesse, ruling a kingdom everlasting.

Ukorin · Jul 25, 2014

Some dispensationalists think that this goes against the seperation of Israel from the Church Age. It doesn't.
Physical and spiritual Israel are separated.
The prophecies are now fulfilled spiritually through the Church,
And will be fulfilled physically during the millennium.

Too many theologians think in 'either/or' statements, instead of 'both/and' statements.

Jason0047 · Jul 25, 2014

PlainWord said:

In regards to spiritual understanding: I believe God will treat His people like unbelievers if they are being proud in some way. The way I see it, truths that do not pertain to doctrine of salvation must be diligently studied so as to give God and His Word the glory. Even when we think we might have the truth, we must ever ready like the Bereans to seek the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

I can say the same. But the proof in the pudding is what does Scripture say plainly?

Acts 14:22 is not a prophecy. It is a current present reality for all believers. For all who live Godly in Christ will suffer persecution. Meaning, if you are truly preaching the gospel and are giving to those who need it and loving others, then you will be persecuted in some way for your faith. Sometimes it's other self professing believers that persecute other real believers.

There are some interesting things to notice that are different about the Rapture (i.e. The Appearing) and the Second Coming.

At the rapture, only those who are looking for him will see him:

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Now contrast that with the second coming to the earth

• Revelation 1:7

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

At the rapture, Jesus comes FOR His church :

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

• John 14:3 -

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also

However, at the second coming (after the tribulation period) , Christ comes WITH His saints.

• Jude 1:14

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

• Revelation 19:14

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean

At the rapture, the LORD calls His church up to a wedding/marriage

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

But at the second coming to earth, He is returning from a wedding

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

In fact, the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Second Coming both involve a Rapture event. In other words, there are two Raptures (or Translations) of the saints.

Here is Scripture for both the:

The 1st Rapture (Translation of the Saints):

The Rapture:
(The 1st Rapture or Translation of the Saints):

Description of the Rapture:

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

• 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Clues Concerning the Rapture:

• John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

• Isaiah 26:20 NLT

Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD’s anger has passed.

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The Dead in Christ Are Taken From Abraham's Bosom By the Rapture:
(Both the Old Testament Saints and Church Age Saints in Abraham's Bosom Are Called to Rise To Meet the Lord in the Air. For in the Rapture: The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First):

• Zechariah 9:11 NIV and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For... I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

And with the trump of God... the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air

Promise of the Rapture:
(A Deliverance of the Wrath to Come):

• 1 Thessalonians 1:10

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

• 1 Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Admonishes about being ready for the Rapture:
(In order to miss out on the 7 Year Tribulation):

• Matthew 24:36-51

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

• Mark 13:32-37

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

• Luke 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

• Revelation 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

• Luke 12:45-46

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The 2nd Rapture (Translation of the Saints):

Certain Saints in Heaven Are Made Ready For The Marriage Supper of The Lamb:

• Revelation 19:6-8 HCS and Revelation 19:9 NIV

Then I heard something like the voice of a vast multitude, like the sound of cascading waters, and like the rumbling of loud thunder, saying:

"Hallelujah, because our Lord God, the Almighty, has begun to reign! Let us be glad, rejoice, and give Him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself. She was given fine linen to wear, bright and pure. For the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints."

Then the angel said to me,

“Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’”

The Lord Gathers His Elect For the Upcoming Battle:
(The Call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb):
(The 2nd Rapture or Translation of the Saints):
(And The End of the Surviving Tribulation Saint's 1,335 Day of Testing):

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Daniel 12:12 ISV and Daniel 12:12 NIV

Blessed is the one who perseveres...and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

• Revelation 14:16

And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

• Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

• Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

• Luke 17:34-37

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

• Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

• Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying

"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

• Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

• Isaiah 31:4 NLT

The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will come down

• Isaiah 26:21b NLT

The earth will no longer hide those who have been killed. They will be brought out for all to see.

I assume they are believers in general because the text does not specify whether they are old or new believers. In other words, you can't have a Rapture occur right before the saints get slaughtered at the enforcement of the Mark around the time of the 4th seal. Nor can you have once later either. For it's why they are crying out for vengeance at the fifth seal. And it's why God will execute His vengeance or wrath at the Sixth Seal with the Day of the Lord. For the Day of the Lord is a period of time or age and it is not a specific day. It's a time of wrath that the saint will be saved from.

No. That is just false on so many levels. I have ran into supposded contradictions within the Bible that made me almost question the faith; However, I still stayed the course and kept studying the Scriptures even when I didn't understand it. Other Christians who truly are students of the Word and who truly love Jesus will do the same. For if the Antichrist shows up tomorrow and starts sacrificing in a Jewish Temple that was built overnight; And he desires everyone to take a Mark in order for folks to buy or sell, I am not going to throw my Bible away and disbelieve God. I am gonna be like,

"Oh, I must have misunderstood that teaching in Scripture. Perhaps I need to study that topic some more. On the other hand, if you miss out on the Pre-Trib Rapture, you will not have escaped all these things (i.e. the Tribulation)."

Your gonna be kicking yourself for not believing the Scriptures as they are plainly written because you know you could have been Raptured up into Heaven. So you actuallly have something to lose. There is nothing lost if I don't believe in a Mid or Post Trib Rapture. If the enforcement of the Mark happens tomorrow, I am gonna have to face that choice of being ready to die for my faith. Yet Christians and missionaries in other countries are faced with this choice of dying every day for their faith.

No, the 12 disciples were told ahead time that they would rule. That does not mean that Gentiles Christians will not be living in the holy city of Jerusalem. There is no longer anymore Jews and Greeks in Christ. We are one in Him.

Jason0047 · Jul 25, 2014

No, believers who are dead in the Lord right now or who die at this present moment are in Abraham's bosom in Sheol. *The phrase "led captivity captive" in Ephesians 4 is taken from the Old Testament and it was talking about taking captive of one's enemies. It is not about setting them free. *The dead in Christ will rise first at the Pre-Trib Rapture. This means, those in Abraham's bosom right now will rise first up into Heaven to be with the Lord in Heaven instead of with the Lord in Abraham's bosom when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place. *Then they will forever be with the Lord.

I agree that there is one bride made up of all believers thru out all points in time. But that doesn't prove your case is true, though. *However, there is a difference between the destiny of the 144,000, Israel as a nation (that will repent and recognize Jesus as their Messiah sometimes shortly before His physical return), and the destinies of the saints living before the Rapture and the Gentile saints living after the Rapture.

Debating a topic for hundreds of hours does not mean you are an expert on a topic. I have debated for hundreds of hours on a wide variety of Biblical topics with others and they are not convinced in seeing what the Scriptures actually say. Sometimes it is because they have not been born again, other times it is pride, and being comfortable with living in unrepentant sin in their life.

PlainWord · Jul 26, 2014

I think you better go back and study Mat 27:52-53 some more.

The 144K are not the Nation of Israel. They are descendants of the 12 Tribes. They have been scattered across the globe. They are Jesus' Elect, the ones He discusses in Mat 24. They are the ones He gathers when He returns.

Physical return? As opposed to some return in the air where He doesn't touch down? I suggest you go back and read 1 Thes 4:14 and pick up the identity of the one who is returning. Hint - It isn't the Son.

I didn't say this to imply I was an expert. I am just a humble servant. I said this to highlight the futility of trying to change the mind of those who Paul teaches us about in 2 Thes 2:11.

God Bless!!

Atwood · Jul 26, 2014

Ukorin said:

Well, Ukorin,
What is your proof of all that?
How are you going to fulfill a physical prophecy spiritually?

So you promise Johnny an apple, then you give the apple to George so he can eat the apple spiritually for a while, before you physically give the apple to Johnny?
Now I shall invite you for a pot roast dinner, & serve you some spiritual pot roast & spiritual mashed potatoes when you come over.

Atwood · Jul 26, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Jason, do you by any chance have some proof of that one? -- aside from the old spiritual:
Rocka my soul in the bosum of Abraham,
rocka my soul in the bosum of Abraham,
rocka my soul in the bosum of Abraham;
oh. . . . . rocka my soul.

You are saying that to be absent from the body is not to be present with the Lord (who is in Heaven)?

Atwood · Jul 26, 2014

Weird & Off the Wall Eschatological Theories

I just got an idea for a new book to be entitled: Off the Wall Eschatology.

I would include the Camping theory that the 153 fish of John 21 were they days between the Rapture & the Final destruction of the World, from May 21 - Oct 21, 2011.

I see more ammo for the book being posted here.

Atwood · Jul 26, 2014

No Rapture in the Olivet Discourse

There is no Rapture in the Olivet Discourse (Mat 24-25, etc).

No one is caught up to a meeting in the air with the Lord in that passage.
If they were, I would see no way to avoid eating Post Toasties.

When does the rapture occur?

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