When does the rapture occur?

[watcher2013]

The war back then was from 67-73 AD. It lasted 6 years, not 7. .

from Wikipedia
The First Jewish–Roman War (66–73 CE), sometimes called The Great Revolt .
even if it is 6 years...it still falls within the week (prophecy)

 

[GaryA]

at 5pm tomorrow evening, LOL

( ... two days later ... )

"I don't think so..."

 

[GaryA]

Luke makes no mention of the Abomination or any desolation.

See Luke 21:20.

Luke is describing the Temple in AD 70 in Luke 21:24.

Luke is recounting Jesus talking about the aftermath of 70 A.D.

However, Christ is NOT discussing the destruction of the Temple in Mat 24:15.

He is discussing the same time frame in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. He did not give three 'Olivet Discourse' discussions. He gave only one. The Matthew, Mark, and Luke accounts are three accounts of the same 'Olivet Discourse' discussion.

Christ invokes Daniel, not LUKE!!

What?

As stated before, all three accounts are based on the same discussion.

The Matthew account is Matthew recounting what Jesus said during His 'Olivet Discourse'.
The Mark account is Mark recounting what Jesus said during His 'Olivet Discourse'.
The Luke account is Luke recounting what Jesus said during His 'Olivet Discourse'.

The details differ from account to account; however, it is still only one discourse. And, Jesus said all of it.

The events in Daniel that deal with the Abomination of Desolation could not have happened before Christ PERIOD.

( I don't have a problem with this statement... )

So the question is, "Have the events Daniel describes in either Daniel 9:27 or in Daniel 11:31-on been fulfilled in AD 70? The answer is NO!!

The answer is Yes! -- everything in that verse ( Daniel 9:27 ) - except a single phrase - came to pass "before, during, and after" 70 A.D. :


Daniel 9:

[SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Before 70 A.D.
70 A.D.
After 70 A.D. ( 'aftermath' )

What are Seventy weeks determined for again???

To finish the transgression { I believe the Jews fulfilled this when they crucified Christ. }
To make an end of sins { I believe that Jesus fulfilled this when He resurrected. }
To make reconciliation for iniquity { I believe that Jesus fulfilled this when He was on the cross. }
To bring in everlasting righteousness { Jesus fulfilled this when He resurrected }
To seal up vision and prophesy { ... by the end of the 70 weeks ... }
To anoint the most Holy { I believe this was fulfilled at the baptism of Jesus; otherwise, it is a reference to His resurrection }

The questions to answer are:

~ How long is 'the times of the Gentiles'?
~ How long did / would / will it take for the Jews to 'be led away captive into all nations'?
~ Is Jerusalem currently being 'trodden down of the Gentiles'?
~ When did Jerusalem begin to be 'trodden down of the Gentiles'?

Keep in mind that --- 'the times of the Jews' ended at the end of the 70 weeks --- which is exactly and precisely what the 70 weeks is all about!

The 70 weeks ended before 70 A.D.

 

[GaryA]

~ When did Jerusalem begin to be 'trodden down of the Gentiles'?

~ When did / will Jerusalem begin to be 'trodden down of the Gentiles'?

 

[kennethcadwell]

The abomination that causes desolation has not happened yet.

It did not happen before Christ, it did not happen during Christ, and it did not happen in 70 AD.

The abomination that causes desolation is not the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies, the abomination is caused by the antichrist who has not come to power yet.

Notice in Luke it says when you see the surrounding of Jerusalem know that the desolation is near. The surrounding is the sign to let you know the abomination is about to come to pass. When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD the abomination never happened.

Nobody stood in the temple and claimed to be God during that conflict.

 

[GaryA]

Gary,

I see where you are getting hung up. You look at these passages in Luke 21...

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

and you tie them to these passages in Mat 24...

16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

There are two similarities:

1) Those in Judea are to flee to the mountains
2) Woe to those who are pregnant and to those nursing babies

Ask yourself, could Christ have made the above two warnings for two periods of time? Could He have told those in Judea to flee in AD 70 and in a future event? Was it a difficult time for pregnant and nursing mothers in AD 70. Would you expect it also to be a difficult time for them again if Israel is attacked again? Is it difficult any time for mothers in a war?

Now look at the many differences in the two passages. I'm not going to list them but you can see for yourself.

My view is that by Mat 24:15 Christ was speaking about the future Great Tribulation and that Luke jumps from AD 70 all the way to the signs before Christ returns and skips the Great Tribulation completely in Luke 21.

The key is Daniel. Luke never invokes Daniel but Matthew does.

The key is --- not getting drawn into word-play games that destroy the context...

The key is --- having a "proper balance" between looking at the trees and looking at the forest...

The key is --- allowing the scriptures to "speak to you", instead of trying to force-fit a "figured-out" meaning...

 

[directline2iam]

[h=2]Re: When does the rapture occur?[/h][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Matt 24:36 [/FONT]But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]37[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.…

Is this to simple to understand?[/FONT]

 

[GaryA]

Gary,

First I think we need to define what the "END" is as Christ intended it to be as the disciples inquired. The End is Judgment Day at which point the saved are saved and the wicked are condemned. The End is NOT the beginning of the Great Tribulation or the moment Christ returns. The end certainly is not the destruction of the Second Temple.

The "Gospel being preached" is a prerequisite to the end, not to the return of Christ. The Gospel is preached even after Christ returns as we see from Rev 14:6. Thus Mat 24:14 tells us that the gospel will be preached all the way to Judgment Day.
_______________________________________________________________

The disciples already know much about the events at the end of the world. Remember Jesus already taught them this back in Mat 13 and they said they understood:

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth , and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

So when the topic came up again the disciples inquired as to WHEN this would happen.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately , saying , Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus doesn't give them a date because He doesn't even know, only the Father knows. So instead He tells them of precursor events that will take place prior to the end. The destruction of the second temple was a prerequisite but as we know a long time prior to the end. As I've shown verse 15 does not deal with the destruction of the Second temple. First, Jesus isn't even talking about any temple being destroyed here, instead He is discussing the A of D which I've already shown was not Titus nor was it Jesus, it is the Man of Sin who Paul discusses and it takes place in the future Third Temple.

So, when I say the Olivet is sequential, I mean the events are given in order. This doesn't mean Christ can't give us prerequisites so that we can know the season.

I refer you again to the following:

study - Olivet Discourse ; post #91
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #175
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #192

The question as the disciples inquired puts "of thy coming" and "of the end of the world" together as one 'event'.

I believe that Christ intended "the end" with a little bit of a larger scope than that.

So then -- I do not believe that we should define "the end" as Judgment Day. Perhaps, it would be better to call that "the final end" or something...?

Based on the context of Matthew 24, and with specific regard to the phrase 'and then shall the end come' - I believe that "the end" ( as Christ intended ) actually puts it between [ the end of ] the Great Tribulation and the Second Coming of Christ.

I believe that Revelation 14:6 is "extra-contextual" to Matthew 24:14.

 

[GaryA]

OOPS!

study - Olivet Discourse ; post #91
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #175
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #192

study - Olivet Discourse ; post #91
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #175
study - Olivet Discourse ; post #192

 

[PlainWord]

from Wikipedia
The First Jewish–Roman War (66–73 CE), sometimes called The Great Revolt .
even if it is 6 years...it still falls within the week (prophecy)

Watcher,

Let's start at the end and work backwards. Daniel 12:

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

Daniel is to receive his inheritance "AT THE END OF DAYS." The END OF DAYS is 1,335 days from the taking away of the daily sacrifices and 45 days after the Abomination of Desolation is set up. Did the world end in AD 70?? I don't think so. Did Daniel receive his inheritance already?

Christ invoked the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel in Mat 24:15. In the above final chapter and final three verses, Daniel discusses the AoD and gives a timeline. There were no 1,290 days from the taking away of the sacrifice until the Abomination was set up circa AD 70. The Romans surrounded the city in AD 68 and broke through in AD 70. The temple was burned, the daily sacrifices ceased and there was no temple any longer to set up the Abomination.

Here is the command to "WAIT" again. This patience and faith and waiting theme is found throughout the NT as it relates to the return of Christ. Why, because a false God will appear first, just as told by Paul, Jesus and John. So we started at the end of days now lets go back in time *future to us."

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Ask yourself, has the above happened? Did it occur circa AD 70? Were the people of Israel delivered in AD 67-73? Heck no!!! They will killed and scattered. They were NOT delivered. There was no resurrection back then, none awoke to eternal life. AD 70 was not the TIME OF THE END, nor was it a TIME OF DELIVERANCE. Thus, this DID NOT happen in AD 70.

Thus all of Daniel 12 is future. Within Daniel 12 the Abomination of Desolation is discussed with a timeline given that does not fit any past event. Daniel states unequivocally:

there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time...

Thus, this time of trouble has not happened yet. If it had happened in AD 67-73 that would mean no nation will ever endure trouble as great as Israel endured in AD 70. Further, the rest of the verse states this:

And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

Were DANIEL'S PEOPLE DELIVERED IN AD 67-73? NOOOOOO!!!!!!
Jesus invoked this AoD in Mat 24:15. After invoking the AoD which I just showed is future, Jesus speaks of a "time to flee" and to "flee fast."

Luke 21:24 speaks of surrounding armies that cause those to flee. Mat 24:15 speak of a detestable AoD which cause those to flee. AD 70 was the beginning of the "Time of Gentiles trampling the Holy City." This trampling is on-going. It has not ended.

AD 70 was a time of punishment - not deliverance. When Christ returns He defeats Israel's enemies and restores her. This is clear from Dan 12, Zech 13-14 and many other OT passages. Israel will be brought to her knees again just prior to her rescue and salvation.

 

[GaryA]

And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.

Israel will be brought to her knees again just prior to her rescue and salvation.

Now - think...






Think - Armageddon

 

[PlainWord]

The key is --- not getting drawn into word-play games that destroy the context...

The key is --- having a "proper balance" between looking at the trees and looking at the forest...

The key is --- allowing the scriptures to "speak to you", instead of trying to force-fit a "figured-out" meaning...

Exactly. Thank you.

You are looking at Luke 21 as a precise parallel passage to Mat and Mark. It is NOT. Luke discusses events leading up to and including the AD 67-73 events up through verse 24. Luke discusses the martyrdom of many of the disciples, Peter and Paul included, which precede the destruction of the Temple. Some indeed were put to death and they were hated for His name's sake.

When did the "Time of the Gentiles" begin, the trampling of the Holy City?

ANSWER: At least by AD 70 and one could argue long before that

How long will Jerusalem be trampled?

ANSWER: Until the Time of Gentiles is fulfilled.

This is still happening and continues to this day. Jerusalem is broken into 4 quarters; Jewish, Islamic, Christian and Armenian. A despicable and pagan mosque sits on the Temple Mount. The time of Gentiles therefore is on-going.

After Luke 21:24, Luke jumps to the SIGNS preceding the return of Christ without discussing anything about the Tribulation era which immediately precedes those signs. Luke 17:26-37 parallels Mat 24:15-51. If you want to find parallels for the time leading up to the appearance of Christ between Luke's account and Matthew's account you are looking in the wrong place. Instead look here.

Mat 24:

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Luke 17:

23 And they will say to you, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.
_____________________________________________________________________


Mat 24:

17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.

Luke 17:

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.

____________________________________________________________________

Mat 24:

40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Luke 17:

34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."

_____________________________________________________________________

Then this is my favorite. Both accounts tell us WHERE.

Mat 24:

28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Luke 17:

37 And they answered and said to Him, "Where, Lord?" So He said to them, "Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together."
___________________________________________________________

So obviously, there is a big battle to come, BIGGER THAN ANY BATTLE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN and Israel will be the focal point. This is the battle Daniel discusses in Dan 11 leading up to Dan 12. It is during this battle that the AoD will be set up.

 

[PlainWord]

Now - think...


Think - Armageddon

YES. YOU HAVE IT. ARMAGEDDON not the Jewish Rebellion of AD 67-73.

 

[PlainWord]

Psa 110:

1 A Psalm of David. The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

5 The Lord is at Your right hand; He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.

6 He shall judge among the nations, He shall fill the places with dead bodies, He shall execute the heads of many countries.

You see, God the Father gives His Son a direct command. The SON will not disobey!!!

QUESTION: Where is Christ to stay until He returns?
ANSWER: At the Right Hand of the Father.

QUESTION: For how long is Christ to remain there?
ANSWER: Until the Father makes the Son's enemies His footstool

Sorry, to some of you. No Pre-Trib Rapture return is possible.

 

[Fishbait]

Re: When does the rapture occur?


Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.…

Is this to simple to understand?

Matthew 24:5-8 gives us some important clues so we can discern the approach of the end times, “For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.”

An increase in false messiahs, an increase in warfare, and increases in famines, plagues, and natural disasters—these are signs of the end times. In this passage, though, we are given a warning: we are not to be deceived, because these events are only the beginning of birth pains; the end is still to come.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/signs-end-times.html#ixzz3BK31Ltyf

 

[watcher2013]

Watcher,

Let's start at the end and work backwards. Daniel 12:

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."

Daniel is to receive his inheritance "AT THE END OF DAYS." The END OF DAYS is 1,335 days from the taking away of the daily sacrifices and 45 days after the Abomination of Desolation is set up. Did the world end in AD 70?? I don't think so. Did Daniel receive his inheritance already?

Daniel indeed shall receive his inheritance at the end of days...BUT the text did not specifically said that the end of 1335 is the end of days...

Things not clear in these verses:
1. It did not say, what will occur after 1290 days...It just says there shall be 1290 days after the AoD
2. the term "Blessed who waits" does not automatically mean salvation at the end of days...How about those dead believers who not able to wait the 1335 days??? Are they not blessed?
3. Blessed may mean...to be able to survive the AD 68-73 war, can be considered blessed.

Can you call those who survived the slaughter of Ad 70 till the end of war in 73 blessed?

Christ invoked the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel in Mat 24:15. In the above final chapter and final three verses, Daniel discusses the AoD and gives a timeline. There were no 1,290 days from the taking away of the sacrifice until the Abomination was set up circa AD 70. The Romans surrounded the city in AD 68 and broke through in AD 70. The temple was burned, the daily sacrifices ceased and there was no temple any longer to set up the Abomination.

Were there 1290 days or more between AD70-AD73?

Here is the command to "WAIT" again. This patience and faith and waiting theme is found throughout the NT as it relates to the return of Christ. Why, because a false God will appear first, just as told by Paul, Jesus and John. So we started at the end of days now lets go back in time *future to us."

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Ask yourself, has the above happened? Did it occur circa AD 70? Were the people of Israel delivered in AD 67-73? Heck no!!! They will killed and scattered. They were NOT delivered. There was no resurrection back then, none awoke to eternal life. AD 70 was not the TIME OF THE END, nor was it a TIME OF DELIVERANCE. Thus, this DID NOT happen in AD 70.

Thus all of Daniel 12 is future. Within Daniel 12 the Abomination of Desolation is discussed with a timeline given that does not fit any past event. Daniel states unequivocally:

there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time...

Thus, this time of trouble has not happened yet. If it had happened in AD 67-73 that would mean no nation will ever endure trouble as great as Israel endured in AD 70. Further, the rest of the verse states this:

And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

Were DANIEL'S PEOPLE DELIVERED IN AD 67-73? NOOOOOO!!!!!!
Jesus invoked this AoD in Mat 24:15. After invoking the AoD which I just showed is future, Jesus speaks of a "time to flee" and to "flee fast."

Luke 21:24 speaks of surrounding armies that cause those to flee. Mat 24:15 speak of a detestable AoD which cause those to flee. AD 70 was the beginning of the "Time of Gentiles trampling the Holy City." This trampling is on-going. It has not ended.

AD 70 was a time of punishment - not deliverance. When Christ returns He defeats Israel's enemies and restores her. This is clear from Dan 12, Zech 13-14 and many other OT passages. Israel will be brought to her knees again just prior to her rescue and salvation.

Let me ask, how you understand Daniel 12...
1. Is this a time of trouble or deliverance?
2. Is the time of trouble the same day as the resurrection?
3. If your answer to no. 2 is NO, Then there is a gap between time of trouble and Resurrection. DID IT SAY HOW LONG?NO.

Let me tell you something about the AD70:
1. It was a time of trouble
2. It was also a time of Deliverance to those who believe (those who's names are written in the book of life), why? Because they believed the Lord prophetic Words, and were able to flee/escape the slaughter.
The same about those who were marked were not hurt during the Baylonian conquest Eze 9:6
3. Resurrection is still future.

 

[GaryA]

Look carefully at what is said in the following verses:


Matthew 24:

[SUP]21[/SUP] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mark 13:

[SUP]19[/SUP] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Daniel 12:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Notice that, in Daniel 12:1, there is no mention of an 'after'.


Why is there not a "nor ever shall be" / "neither shall be" in Daniel 12:1 ?


"Think about it..."

 

[sparkman]

All except for the fact that a man's actions can change God's mind...

Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
Exo 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

This view of God is called open theism and it is a heresy in my opinion. It denies that God is Creator and stands apart from the creation. He created time and space, and stands apart from it. Being limited by time and space is a characteristic of being created, and God is not created...he is the Creator.

Scripture speaks of God changing his mind, as if God does not know the end from the beginning..but this is an anthropomorphism. God knows the details of the future in detail.

Is 46: 9“Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;


Here are two good articles on the subject:

What is open theism?
Does God know the future?

 

[PlainWord]

Watcher,

Can you call those who survived the slaughter of Ad 70 till the end of war in 73 blessed?

There were no survivors who made it through Masada. Study the conflict of AD 67-73. After the Temple was destroyed on Aug 20 AD 70 (9 Av 3830), the Jews living in Jerusalem and Judea scattered. Incidentally, 9 Av was the exact day the first temple was also destroyed. This date, 9 Av 3830 is one of the best known dates on the Jewish calendar.

Following the destruction of the Temple the Romans continued their extermination of the Jews. They moved south and destroyed the fortress of Herodian. They killed Jews wherever they found them. The last bastion of Jewish occupied territory and last coherent Jewish civilization was of course Masada. Masada was breached and all Jews were found dead on April 16, AD 73. The time lapse from August 20, 0070 to April 16, 0073 was only 988 days.

Were there 1290 days or more between AD70-AD73?

No, do the math. Even if you go back to the start of Titus' siege and attacks shortly after passover, this famous date was 17 Tammuz, you only add a couple of months to the 988 days, not the 302 days you need.

1. Thus there is no connection to 1,290 or 1,335 days back in AD 70-73.

2. There was no Abomination in the Temple in AD 70 which caused the desolation. It was the destruction of the temple which caused desolation.

3. There was no deliverance in AD 70 or AD 73. We know the Jewish people would continue to endure hardship, persecution and death all the way up to and including Hitler. There would be nothing which could even be considered a deliverance until 1948. You had a time of trouble and a scattering. If you study the OT prophesies you see that at the end, there will be a time of trouble with a deliverance after Israel has been restored and once restored, they will never be scattered again. Thus nothing in the past fits Daniel 12 where as we know the Abomination of Desolation is mentioned in a time frame that contains the end.

Thus, the events of AD 67-73 do not fit Daniel's Abomination of Desolation and since they don't fit Daniel Chapter 11-12, they cannot fit Jesus' account of Mat 24:15.

 

[watcher2013]

Watcher,



There were no survivors who made it through Masada. Study the conflict of AD 67-73. After the Temple was destroyed on Aug 20 AD 70 (9 Av 3830), the Jews living in Jerusalem and Judea scattered. Incidentally, 9 Av was the exact day the first temple was also destroyed. This date, 9 Av 3830 is one of the best known dates on the Jewish calendar.

Following the destruction of the Temple the Romans continued their extermination of the Jews. They moved south and destroyed the fortress of Herodian. They killed Jews wherever they found them. The last bastion of Jewish occupied territory and last coherent Jewish civilization was of course Masada. Masada was breached and all Jews were found dead on April 16, AD 73. The time lapse from August 20, 0070 to April 16, 0073 was only 988 days.


No, do the math. Even if you go back to the start of Titus' siege and attacks shortly after passover, this famous date was 17 Tammuz, you only add a couple of months to the 988 days, not the 302 days you need.

If we are going to based our calculation on those dates:
20 august 0070 - 16 Apr 0073

Definitely you would not get the 1290 days...

From Wikipedia The siege of Masada was among the final accords of the Great Jewish Revolt, occurring from 73 to 74 CE on a large hilltop in current-day Israel.
Date
Late 72 – early 73 (traditional date)
Late 73 – early 74 CE (proposed date)

From Wikipedia
The First Jewish–Roman War (66–73 CE), sometimes called The Great Revolt

From the same source:
first Jewish roman war ended in 73, as a traditional date:
there is however a proposed date of late 73 or early 74:

The Question now is what really is the starting date and the end Dates.... Which record is precise to calculate the days with precision.

Now, if you are going to base your calculation on the first day of siege which is at Passover of 70 AD and end it late 73 or early 74, you will have enough days to fill in the 1290 days.

1. Thus there is no connection to 1,290 or 1,335 days back in AD 70-73.

Based on your reference dates, there are no connection, however should the date referenced to early 70's and finished late 73...You will have enough days to cover the 1290 or 1335

2. There was no Abomination in the Temple in AD 70 which caused the desolation. It was the destruction of the temple which caused desolation.

Ezekiel did not mentioned the abomination of Desolation when he prophesied about the destruction of the 1st Temple, Also the Babylonian and the destruction of the 1st temple that made the land desolate;

BUT The Lord said it is because of their abomination that the Land was made desolate:
Eze 33:29 Then shall they know that I am the LORD, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed.
There were multiple abominations:
1. the abominations committed by the children of Israel
2. the foreigner entered the sanctuary

3. There was no deliverance in AD 70 or AD 73. We know the Jewish people would continue to endure hardship, persecution and death all the way up to and including Hitler. There would be nothing which could even be considered a deliverance until 1948. You had a time of trouble and a scattering. If you study the OT prophesies you see that at the end, there will be a time of trouble with a deliverance after Israel has been restored and once restored, they will never be scattered again. Thus nothing in the past fits Daniel 12 where as we know the Abomination of Desolation is mentioned in a time frame that contains the end.

Thus, the events of AD 67-73 do not fit Daniel's Abomination of Desolation and since they don't fit Daniel Chapter 11-12, they cannot fit Jesus' account of Mat 24:15.

The fact that the Jewish people remains up until this day proved that there was DELIVERANCE during those great revolt. IF there was no deliverance John would have not survived...

Matthew 24 fits the account of:
Daniel 9:27 regarding the last week and the taking away of sacrifices and the destruction of sanctuary
Daniel 12:1 about the time of trouble

Daniel 11 has nothing to do with it...was already fulfilled:

You are probably overwhelmed by the words from 2 thess 2:3-4 about the man of Sin that you might have overlooked the historical events:

Here a sample fulfilled prophecy about Tyrus (the area of Lebanon)
Eze 28:1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Eze 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
Eze 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

from your statement above: "You had a time of trouble and a scattering. If you study the OT prophesies you see that at the end, there will be a time of trouble with a deliverance after Israel has been restored and once restored, they will never be scattered again."

Daniel 12 talks about time of trouble, If this is future (as you believed) then you are talking of Future scattering and future DESOLATION and not the scattering of AD 66-73... (that will give you another scattering and 3rd gathering)

I would like to know how you understand Daniel 12:
1. Do you understand the trouble to be the same time as the resurrection?
2. if No, how long is the period between trouble and the resurrection: