When does the rapture occur?

[Straightshot]

"Brother Popeye said that falling away in that verse, base on the original language/ Greek, suppose to translate as departure"


Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia

​

[TABLE="width: 606"]
[TR]
[TD]Transliteration
apostasia[/TD]
[TD]Pronunciation
ä-po-stä-sē'-ä (Key)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Part of Speech
feminine noun[/TD]
[TD]Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 1:513,88[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   [*=left]a falling away, defection, apostasy

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strongs G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).


I would suggest to you that the context of the passage supports that there is a time coming when humanity reaches a level of intransigence [apostasy] toward the Lord that He is going to diminish His restraint against Satan and to allow for them to revel in their corruption .... He is going to give them the devil because they have refused to believe the truth about Him

2 Thessalonians
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Straightshot]

"why would we need a rapture after Jesus returns, it's like tetes on a bull hog it makes no sense."


Exactly

Post tribulation thinking neglects to learn that it is the Lord who brings the tribulation and executes the same .... then He will appear visibly to the survivors of the period

The theology refuses to believe this truth and instead relegates the Lord's judgment to the devil

 

[PlainWord]

"why would we need a rapture after Jesus returns, it's like tetes on a bull hog it makes no sense."


Exactly

Post tribulation thinking neglects to learn that it is the Lord who brings the tribulation and executes the same .... then He will appear visibly to the survivors of the period

The theology refuses to believe this truth and instead relegates the Lord's judgment to the devil

That's some pretty serious circular logic my friend. The Great Tribulation is Satan's Wrath. It is Satan's Man of Sin. It is Satan attacking and killing the Saints. God's wrath comes later but we've been over this ground before. If you want to think God uses Satan to execute HIS judgment, that's your prerogative.

As for 2 Thes 2 which you just quoted you should go back and read the first 3 verses. If you do, you will find that the Lord returns after the Man of Sin, not before.

 

[Straightshot]

"That's some pretty serious circular logic my friend. The Great Tribulation is Satan's Wrath"


You say

..... I don't buy your story

Explain this just for kicks [Revelation 17:16-18; 19:1-10]

 

[PlainWord]

"That's some pretty serious circular logic my friend. The Great Tribulation is Satan's Wrath"


You say

..... I don't buy your story

Explain this just for kicks [Revelation 17:16-18; 19:1-10]

Glad to.

16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

The Last BEAST EMPIRE (8th but of the 7, the healed 7th) alliance of 10 lead by Turkey will attack and destroy MECCA which is Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots most likely by a nuclear missile fired from Turkey (or perhaps Iran if they get that far).

You must first recognize that it is MECCA which is the HARLOT. John was taken to the "wilderness" also translated DESERT to see this "WOMAN." MECCA is the only religious city HQ located in the desert. ISLAM is the world's largest false religion with roots all the way back to the original Babylon. MECCA means "MOTHER of all Settlements" in Arabic. MECCA is located on 7 hills not far from the Red Sea which is the 2nd largest shipping channel in the world. The "kings of the world" are the Arab Oil Merchants who have become rich with their wine = oil. Jeremiah 50 goes into more detail about this Harlot. I could write pages as to why MECCA is MOTHER BABYLON, but just trust me on this for now.

If you go back and read the 4th seal you will find that the GREEN (CHLOROS improperly translated PALE) Horse has control over 1/4 of the world. Green is the color of ISLAM and ISLAM makes up 24% of the world's religions. It is this 1/4 of the world which is mostly affected during the Tribulation. This area, of course includes Israel. If you study Ezekiel 38-39 and Dan 11-12 and other OT prophets you will see that the countries identified to be involved in the end are all either in this region or come to this region (ROSH = Russia), this 1/4 of the world. This 1/4 of the world was also the known world to John in his day.

There is enormous historical precedent for God's anger over ISLAM. It goes back to Towel of Babel, Egypt, Babylon and more recently Ephesus etc. Read Acts 19:34. Diana was called "GREAT." The people chanted "GREAT is DIANA." What do the Muslims chant? "Allahu Akbar" which means (their) god (Allah) is the Greatest.

ISLAM's manner of worship includes a False God (ALLAH) and False Prophet (Muhammad). Since at least Babylon, they all worship the same (see Dan 3) way. They fall down and worship the image (Kaaba Stone) when music plays. Compare Dan 3:7 to Rev 18:22. The musical instruments are nearly identical which call them to "worship" the image of their false god.

The Man of Sin from Turkey and his northern alliance, the final BEAST kingdom, will elevate himself above the Kaaba. He will hate Saudi Arabia (they already do and are calling for Saudi destruction). They will attack and destroy MECCA the Harlot. The Man of Sin will advance a foreign god, a god his fathers did not know. The god his fathers knew was Allah. He will elevate himself above all gods, including our God.

I could say more but I have to run. But hopefully this helps???

 

[Straightshot]

I think you are way off track with your "Satan's wrath" story with regard to the Lord's coming tribulation

The post tribulation thinking that you attempt to support with the above is flawed for many reasons and the concept also skews other significant exegetical truth .... like the Lord's pre-tribulation intent to immortalize His true ecclesia

And you may not be correct with your Saudi Arabia focus .... you are speculating about this .... there is no scriptural support

Revelation 18 describes but does not name a more comprehensive and larger system of wealth, finance, trade, commercial, and business activities .... Saudia Arabia does not fill the shoes

No doubt that Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions will draw the Saudi Muslims into his Middle Eastern confederation .... and if this takes a removal of the kingdom's present rulers, he will do it

 

[john832]

That's some pretty serious circular logic my friend. The Great Tribulation is Satan's Wrath. It is Satan's Man of Sin. It is Satan attacking and killing the Saints. God's wrath comes later but we've been over this ground before. If you want to think God uses Satan to execute HIS judgment, that's your prerogative.

As for 2 Thes 2 which you just quoted you should go back and read the first 3 verses. If you do, you will find that the Lord returns after the Man of Sin, not before.

I do agree here, the Tribulation is the Beast Power under the direction of the False Prophet, both of which are influenced by the Devil. The Tribulation lasts 2-1/2 years, then comes the one year period known as the Day of the Lord.

 

[jsmoove]

However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (Matthew 24:36)

 

[PlainWord]

I think you are way off track with your "Satan's wrath" story with regard to the Lord's coming tribulation

The post tribulation thinking that you attempt to support with the above is flawed for many reasons and the concept also skews other significant exegetical truth .... like the Lord's pre-tribulation intent to immortalize His true ecclesia

And you may not be correct with your Saudi Arabia focus .... you are speculating about this .... there is no scriptural support

Revelation 18 describes but does not name a more comprehensive and larger system of wealth, finance, trade, commercial, and business activities .... Saudia Arabia does not fill the shoes

No doubt that Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions will draw the Saudi Muslims into his Middle Eastern confederation .... and if this takes a removal of the kingdom's present rulers, he will do it

Keep studying my friend. You are years and thousands of hours behind where I am today. I was where you were about 13 years ago too, so I'm not surprised you aren't grasping it yet. But keep an open mind and heart, do not allow yourself to become blind and you will get there some day.

You aren't seeing Saudi Arabia as the home of Mother Babylon because you don't recognize the significance of this location scripturally. When the children of Israel left Egypt and crossed the Red Sea they wandered around in the wilderness, as you know. A large part of their wandering was in present Saudi Arabia. Mt. Sinai where Moses received the 10 commandments is located here. While Moses was on the mount, the Israelites made a golden calf. Thus false worship for them started here.

You also aren't fully appreciating the fact that the Saudis have been "whoring" themselves with the west with their oil. Today the Saudis produce 13% of the worlds crude which is #1 in the world. Their 4 main ports export this oil. It will be here and in their oil fields that will burn causing the heavenly lights to dim by 1/3. It is MECCA that will be destroyed and the merchants who have been getting rich trading this oil will stand far off and lament.

Don't even think about America my friend, we are new comers to the world stage, less than 100 years as a super power and already on the decline. It is all about the past. It is all about Israel and her neighbors.

 

[Straightshot]

"You are years and thousands of hours behind where I am today"


You wish

Many speculate .... the prophets do not

When does the "rapture" occur?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Keep studying my friend. You are years and thousands of hours behind where I am today. I was where you were about 13 years ago too, so I'm not surprised you aren't grasping it yet. But keep an open mind and heart, do not allow yourself to become blind and you will get there some day.

You aren't seeing Saudi Arabia as the home of Mother Babylon because you don't recognize the significance of this location scripturally. When the children of Israel left Egypt and crossed the Red Sea they wandered around in the wilderness, as you know. A large part of their wandering was in present Saudi Arabia. Mt. Sinai where Moses received the 10 commandments is located here. While Moses was on the mount, the Israelites made a golden calf. Thus false worship for them started here.

You also aren't fully appreciating the fact that the Saudis have been "whoring" themselves with the west with their oil. Today the Saudis produce 13% of the worlds crude which is #1 in the world. Their 4 main ports export this oil. It will be here and in their oil fields that will burn causing the heavenly lights to dim by 1/3. It is MECCA that will be destroyed and the merchants who have been getting rich trading this oil will stand far off and lament.

Don't even think about America my friend, we are new comers to the world stage, less than 100 years as a super power and already on the decline. It is all about the past. It is all about Israel and her neighbors.

I would have to side with you on this, after looking at all the different descriptions of the daughter of Babylon. I would say yes that Saudi Arabia fits more then America does.

 

[Straightshot]

All speculation

Stick with the prophets

 

[PlainWord]

"You are years and thousands of hours behind where I am today"


You wish

Many speculate .... the prophets do not

When does the "rapture" occur?

Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that.

 

[secularhermit]

Next year! ()2015) When an asteroid comes over Puerto Rico.

 

[PlainWord]

I would have to side with you on this, after looking at all the different descriptions of the daughter of Babylon. I would say yes that Saudi Arabia fits more then America does.

Well Kenneth, thank you for that. I really appreciate you saying that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well Kenneth, thank you for that. I really appreciate you saying that.

No problem, and one of the reasons I believe this is because I do not think America will either be here ( as in destroyed ) or not a major player at this time.
The other thing is that after researching and studying this topic, the reasoning that some have come up with America is they insert words that are not there or put things in perspective that does not quit fit.
Like the whole export and import issue. Does not actually specify except that those who sell goods to them cry out that their is no longer anybody their to buy their goods. The only thing that Saudi Arabia exports really is oil, they have to pretty much import the rest of what they have.

 

[Straightshot]

"Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that"


Speculation is something that people do and the problem is simply that if not true then one has painted themselves into a corner

You and I will never agree on the next topic ..... post-tribulation thinking is bogus .... a corner already painted

 

[RickyZ]

"Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that"


Speculation is something that people do and the problem is simply that if not true then one has painted themselves into a corner

You and I will never agree on the next topic ..... post-tribulation thinking is bogus .... a corner already painted

It's interesting, no one knows the day or hour, yet we are given signs lest it take us unaware...

and your use of the term "satan's tribulation", frankly, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up

 

[GaryA]

Post #953:

Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that.

Post #957:

Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that.

Speculation is something that people do and the problem is simply that if not true then one has painted themselves into a corner

You and I will never agree on the next topic ..... post-tribulation thinking is bogus .... a corner already painted

Post #958:

Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that.

Speculation is something that people do and the problem is simply that if not true then one has painted themselves into a corner

You and I will never agree on the next topic ..... post-tribulation thinking is bogus .... a corner already painted

It's interesting, no one knows the day or hour, yet we are given signs lest it take us unaware...

and your use of the term "satan's tribulation", frankly, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up

It was actually PlainWord that used that term.



I'm just wondering...

Why do so many people on CC have so much trouble getting quote bubbles to work properly?

Do they use 'Quick Reply' and somehow corrupt their message as they begin to type it?


I have noticed that some folks seem to not even use 'Reply With Quote' to post?

Have some people actually given up completely on using quote bubbles?


Sometimes, I think it is more confusing when people do not use them. Is the above example a good case-in-point?

 

[PlainWord]

"Which part are you struggling with, the identity of the Harlot? If you want to have a little fun, list all the things we are told about the Harlot. Then see what fits. It ain't NYC or Rome.

As for the "rapture," no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels. Only the father knows. I do know this though. He doesn't come until after Satan's great tribulation and the great upheaval of the middle east. He comes after all of that"


Speculation is something that people do and the problem is simply that if not true then one has painted themselves into a corner

You and I will never agree on the next topic ..... post-tribulation thinking is bogus .... a corner already painted

We don't have to agree. It matters not that you believe in pre-trib. The Lord has His plan and it doesn't need to make sense to you or conform to your way of thinking. You believe a doctrine without any clear teaching to support it. Do as you like. I am 100% convinced that the Lord comes after the Tribulation because that is what He himself has told us. Everything, and I mean everything is consistent with a post tribulation return if you apply the scriptures correctly.

No need to debate this any further. You will see that you are wrong soon enough. Just don't lose your faith my friend. As Peter teaches, you will be scoffed at.