When does the rapture occur?

[popeye]

Those who are waiting for a pre trib rapture will be a part of the falling away. There is more taught about hell and repentance, overcoming to the end, do not fear, ect. God's people suffered, Paul suffered, Jesus suffered, we will all encounter persecution and will be safe from God's wrath for the unbelievers. The very definition of tribulation means suffering...

http://youtu.be/uW4E83N8pog


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKbuSvqL8go&list=UUmLJ1lhe9G_2gWwo_rRtLRg

Wow,amazing you omit by your doctrine the waiting for the groom.Mat 25;Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

You are waiting for the AC.
We hopefully do not get what we pray for if we find ourselves duped by postrib error.

 

[popeye]

They all went through it. They didn't dematerialize and go to heaven until it was over. Sure God can save them through it, that fits a biblical pattern. Getting transported to heaven until the mess is over doesn't seem to fit any major biblical patterns.

This is not scriptural. The bible says "Power was given to the AC to overcome the saints" The ac kills every believer. You have zero basis for your comment

 

[Kerry]

If Jesus was the first fruits of the Resurrection, then what is the second fruit?

 

[popeye]

This is what the Bible really tells us.

You got maybe 2 "correct" out of what, 15?

 

[Sophia]

"Jan Luyken's three-part illustration of the rapture described in Matthew 24, verse 40, from the 1795 Bowyer Bible"
To see this quote google "rapture,wiki" and see the illustrated bible (from the 1700's) except debunking the "1830s" hogwash.
Other evidence is so easy to obtain,however postrib "teachers" offer a very false and deceptive picture.
"darby" mess is false
"Mdonald" mess is false
"jesuit" mess is false.
Ask a postrib to back up the false info and they can not. It is pure hear-say 3rd party gossip. Increadable that postrib followers do not check out what their "teachers" parrot.

Do you have a quote or not? Maybe YOU should check out what your teachers parrot. Do you have an excerpt from Jan Luyken's own interpretation of when this gathering takes place? Those 3 pictures aren't on a timeline, and judging by the symbolic images engraved around the border, are likely from an amillennialist point of view.
Again, I never said that I was "postrib", you labelled me that. I was just commenting about how foolish it is to question someones salvation based on their view of the rapture. If you took it as some sort of a challenge, that's your own mind playing tricks on you.

 

[popeye]

If Jesus was the first fruits of the Resurrection, then what is the second fruit?

1st resurrection is multtifaceted. Rev 20 is not what postribs say it is. They have gotten away with a twist.I need no such twist

 

[Straightshot]

The post tribulation theology is a ruse and actually a "lie of the devil"

Even then men have concocted the idea for various other proprietary reasons .... just an other ploy to destruct the Lord's more sure word of prophecy

This ambition can be detected when you look beneath the post-tribulation ranting about the "rapture"

Ripping the pre-tribulation "rapture" out of the prophetic scriptures opens grounds for meddling .... much like the preterist who morphs future unfulfilled prophecy into metaphorical mush

Both behaviors are suspect of deceptive motives

The most of the post crowd come from religious organizations that teach arrays of un-scriptural dogmas that are vulnerable to massive failure if subjected to critical exegesis and if you look under the cover of their insistence to promote their post-fetish you will discover what is going on with their religion

They also have a persecution complex and think that they must be "purified" by going through the coming tribulation period .... this indicates the thinking of one who has been deceived by religions that teach selected works as a necessary requirement for salvation

Do not follow this false theology .... but point out the error of the thinking

Many that do follow will enter the tribulation period as they desire if they happen to be living at the time .... in an unsaved condition

 

[popeye]

Do you have a quote or not? Maybe YOU should check out what your teachers parrot. Do you have an excerpt from Jan Luyken's own interpretation of when this gathering takes place? Those 3 pictures aren't on a timeline, and judging by the symbolic images engraved around the border, are likely from an amillennialist point of view.
Again, I never said that I was "postrib", you labelled me that. I was just commenting about how foolish it is to question someones salvation based on their view of the rapture. If you took it as some sort of a challenge, that's your own mind playing tricks on you.

Do you have a quote or not? Maybe YOU should check out what your teachers parrot.

It is a bible written in 1700's.
It is up to you to look. I am only a reporter,not a tutor.
All their extra biblical mess is false. It is easy to find out. I already looked . It is debunked. They can not show me a source.Really false and pathetic that they continue to spread thier made up mess.

Those 3 pictures aren't on a timeline,

Look again. Postribs EMPHATICALLY TEACH and NEED the "one taken" to be "wicked taken",the "one left" to be the righteous left.
Postrib teachable moment much?????

 

[Straightshot]

Let them continue on into the tribulation pop

What does need to be done is to expose the deception so that others do not follow their fate

Most of them have relied upon extra-biblical material for their ilk ..... so they want you to prove likewise

..... they refuse to stick with the scriptures that clearly give the truth about the matter .... written long before

 

[Sophia]

It is a bible written in 1700's.
It is up to you to look. I am only a reporter,not a tutor.
All their extra biblical mess is false. It is easy to find out. I already looked . It is debunked. They can not show me a source.Really false and pathetic that they continue to spread thier made up mess.



Look again. Postribs EMPHATICALLY TEACH and NEED the "one taken" to be "wicked taken",the "one left" to be the righteous left.
Postrib teachable moment much?????

I did look it up. It supports amillennialism, as I suspected, not pre trib rapture. look up your own sources before posting.
The one who needs a source is you. You said that pretrib rapture was a view before the 1800s. Where is your quote to prove that?

 

[Straightshot]

Tell Sop to read the Bible pop .... all you have to say .... the only authority on the matter

Sop knows this, but gets a charge out of banter

 

[Sophia]

Let them continue on into the tribulation pop

What does need to be done is to expose the deception so that others do not follow their fate

Most of them have relied upon extra-biblical material for their ilk ..... so they want you to prove likewise

..... they refuse to stick with the scriptures that clearly give the truth about the matter .... written long before

I only ask for extra-biblical quote, because you claimed that millions of my brethren and forefathers who died before hearing Darby preach, will not be resurrected on the Last Day, because none of them ever heard of or considered pretrib rapture.

 

[popeye]

Even if the reference is saints in heaven, there is nothing in the text to indicate those are saints who were raptured from a tribulation. Those who die go to be with the God, so it could be them also.

There isn't anything in Matthew 24 that indicates some pretrib saving of saints as they're swept off the Earth to heaven.

Those who die go to be with the God, so it could be them also.

Yep,they are included in that same group

There isn't anything in Matthew 24 that indicates some pretrib saving of saints as they're swept off the Earth to heaven.

There is indeed;
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[Straightshot]

"I only ask for extra-biblical quote, because you claimed that millions of my brethren and forefathers who died before hearing Darby preach, will not be resurrected on the Last Day, because none of them ever heard of or considered pretrib rapture."


You ask amiss ..... Darby has nothing to do with the matter ..... just a man preaching

An by the way your quote "on" the last day does not exist in scripture .... did you know this?

It is either "in" the last day .... or "at" the last day .... this correctly signifies the Day of the Lord ..... a period of time, not just one day

..... and one does not have to hear about the timing of the pre-trib" rapture" .... but one must be ready for it ..... ready means saved .... get it?

Why do you think the Lord has warned to be "ready"

I will tell you why .... because He is speaking to those who think they are saved, and are not

Do you know that there are?

Do you want to know something? .... or are you just trying to tell

 

[Straightshot]

Pop

Be careful with the "taken and left" stuff

This does not have anything to do with the "rapture"

This is given to Israel during the coming time of Jacob's trouble

Those taken of Israel will be the unbelieving .... they will be taken in the judgment [Zechariah 13:8-9]

Those left will be mortal and will enter and populate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom .... as mortals [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31]

Neither can the post tribulation thinkers use this argument to support their "wicked" ranting

This idea is a common belief of the SDA church taught by their prophetess Ellen G, White .... read about her on the Internet

 

[popeye]

I did look it up. It supports amillennialism, as I suspected, not pre trib rapture. look up your own sources before posting.
The one who needs a source is you. You said that pretrib rapture was a view before the 1800s. Where is your quote to prove that?

You got the cart before the horse. THEY make the claims.Extra biblical claims. My "source" is the bible. I look at their mess as a courtesy,and am not forbidden by a doctrine from any reaserch.( they are as is shown by their lack of investiagation)
Postrib ABSOLUTELY MUST adjust the "2 in the field" verses to agree with the "wicked taken"
My reference to the opposite taught in the 1700 has zero reflection on my BASIS for belief,as I do not elevate man over the word. IOW it matters not to me that herasy was abundant in the early church.Some did not even adhere to the virgin birth.
Under the "no such doctrine before 1830's" template they, by their own precedent,need an infallable "church belief system" for some doctrine to override the scripture.(so bizarre beyond words)..I can not wrap my mind around the addiction to ancient saints
So,I am not moved by ANY such methods of man. The WORD OF GOD debunks them hands down and a babe in christ with a bible can easily defend the pretrib rapture.
BTW,the catholics burned entire groups of believers and their writings as herasy...LEAVING CATHOLIC ERRONEOUS DOCTRINE in full force !!! Fast forward to today where there are those WITH DOCUMENTS IN HAND ready to use and base their entire beliefs on!!!!

 

[Straightshot]

"a babe in christ with a bible can easily defend the pretrib rapture"


No doubt

All who rail against this truth have been deceiving, or are being deceived [many of the professing denominations of professing Christianity carry the baggage]

David MacPherson as of late is the champion of rapture bashing ..... says this is the "lie" of the devil

Many have read his books .... a very confused and negative man .... find him on the Iinternet

 

[popeye]

Pop

Be careful with the "taken and left" stuff

This does not have anything to do with the "rapture"

This is given to Israel during the coming time of Jacob's trouble

Those taken of Israel will be the unbelieving .... they will be taken in the judgment [Zechariah 13:8-9]

Those left will be mortal and will enter and populate the Lord's coming millennial kingdom .... as mortals [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31]

Neither can the post tribulation thinkers use this argument to support their "wicked" ranting

This idea is a common belief of the SDA church taught by their prophetess Ellen G, White .... read about her on the Internet

I let them paint themselves in a corner. Because they must "flow out" their reckless statements for the sake of harmony (zero harmony actually) to make it work for them. Thus ,they say "wicked are ALWAYS taken first" WOW,what a mess they have made.

 

[Straightshot]

True, for themselves and for others

 

[popeye]

I only ask for extra-biblical quote, because you claimed that millions of my brethren and forefathers who died before hearing Darby preach, will not be resurrected on the Last Day, because none of them ever heard of or considered pretrib rapture.

All "dead in christ" WILL BE RESURRECTED.....NOT raptured. Darby is of zero factor either way.