When does the rapture occur?

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Satan has been wandering to and fro down here on earth but also is still allowed in Heaven. He was in heaven when he and the Father discussed Job. But he had been on earth walking "to and fro." We know from Rev 12 that a war will break out in heaven and Satan will be finally and permanently cast out to earth. Once this happens, Satan has just a short time so he comes with Great Wrath.

So again, I ask you since you dodged the question.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Staightshot, if you want to quote something, rather than just copying the text then responding to it, try using the bubble on the top right of the tool bar. Highlight the text you want to copy then You can use "Control C" then hit the bubble button, then do "Control V" and the text will go inside the bubble. It will make it easier for you and us to see what you are quoting and responding to. Just a hint.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Tribulation is of Satan, not GOD. Is God delivering (them) up to Tribulation in the below?

Matthew 24:9 NKJV

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

Since the above Tribulation is not of God then neither is the below. Same author, same passage, same topic, so same use of the word only now the Tribulation is "GREAT."

Matthew 24:21 NKJV

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Who is stumbling from Tribulation in the below? Christians or the wicked?

[h=4]Mark 4:17 NKJV[/h] and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they stumble.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Jesus PROMISES us Tribulation. He never goes back and reverses this teaching for the end times Church. Nowhere does Christ reverse this truth!!!

John 16:33 NKJV

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

Paul REPEATEDLY teaches about tribulation will will suffer as Christians and he considers it an honor. So why are so many Christians today thinking they should get a pass from this suffering for their faith??

[h=4]Romans 5:3 NKJV[/h] And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
[h=4]Romans 8:35 NKJV[/h] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[h=4]Romans 12:12 NKJV[/h] rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
[h=4]2 Corinthians 1:4 NKJV[/h] who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
[h=4]2 Corinthians 7:4 NKJV[/h] Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
[h=4]1 Thessalonians 3:4 NKJV[/h] For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

John also teaches us about Tribulation for our faith. John even identies the DEVIL as the one responsible....

[h=4]Revelation 1:9 NKJV[/h] I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
[h=4]Revelation 2:9 NKJV[/h] I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
[h=4]Revelation 2:10 NKJV[/h] Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

PlainWord · Dec 6, 2014

So all these passages about tribulation with a small "t" deal with Satan's persecution of believers. So what about Great Tribulation, with a "T?" Who are the victims of the GREAT TRIBULATION??

Revelation 7:14 NKJV

And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So much false doctrine in the churches today. So many traditions of men which make void the very Word of God. So many of my brothers and sisters in Christ being lead away by the wiles of Satan.

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

The devil wants us to think Christ comes first because it is he (the devil) who comes first with all lies and unrighteous deception. Jesus Himself tells us:

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

Our Lord has given us a command, DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!!

Christ comes after the Man of Sin, not before. Paul makes this so crystal clear too. Are we going to listen to Christ and Paul or the Tradition of Men (AKA the Lies of Satan)???

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... 3...Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine is an "ANY MEANS" by which Satan will deceive us.

Straightshot · Dec 6, 2014

Do you know that there is a difference between the trials an tribulation of this short trouble filled life and the tribulation that the Lord is going to bring for a different purpose?

Not only upon a world that has ignored Him, but also upon a devil thrown down and barred from the heavenly realm

You need to know that it is the Lord who will instigate His period of wrath and judgment .... but first He will call His ecclesia of both the dead and the living just as He has promised .... His schedule

Then He will unleash unprecedented judgment upon the earth .... His timing

And at the same time the devil will be cast out and confined to the earth for his own whipping

This devil will attempt to win the battle, but his fate is already written in stone

The Lord will toss him about like a rag doll as he runs around the earth with his beast and false prophet thinking that he has captured the victory .... only to be cut short by His Adversary at every turn

.... like a road runner cartoon .... the fox always looses

The Day of the Lord [of many vexing days] will come upon an unsuspecting world in a flash .... not at the end, but at the beginning .... and the earth will reel and convulse as His power is displayed over many days [Psalms 2; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 6:12-17]

.... these things are not of the devil's design who could not do them in the first place

And in the process the nation's are going to know that He is the Lord .... the One rejected

Satan will come to the party at the very beginning of this nightmare whether he wants or not

And his short gasping effort will be totally wiped out by the God who made him

.... no, Satan will not be the Master of the tribulation period of the Lord's coming wrath as you think

He will be the victim along with his human followers .... this devil is a coward and when faced with the infinite power of the Living God he will wildly thrash about because he knows that his due is coming

And you give him credit for administering the Lord's Day of His Wrath and judgment

Who ever heard of the "day of Satan?" .... no one

PlainWord · Dec 7, 2014

Yes of course I know this. But what you don't seem to grasp is that this wrath comes after Satan's Great Tribulation and is in response to it. Because Satan has been harming God's people (both Christians and Jews) the Lord will come with great wrath and defeat Satan and evil.

Ask yourself, what happens during the Great Tribulation? List the events.

1. Broken Peace Treaty with Israel
2. Man of Sin declaring to be above God (Deception)
3. Satanic miracles
4. Invasion of Israel
5. Massive slaughter of believers (GM in Heaven)
6. Great Apostasy - Falling away from faith

Do any of the above sound like they come from GOD???

There is absolutely ZERO biblical support for the above statement. There is no passage that discusses any living being taken up to heaven. If you study the timing of the resurrection in passages like John 6:40, 44, 54, etc, you will see that it happens on the very last day, not at some point before the Tribulation.

The Battle of Armageddon is the final battle before the Millennial reign of Christ. Christ returns in time to win this battle. The Tribulation is over by this point. Yes, I agree with you but all of this is after the period which Christ Himself calls the Great Tribulation.

The Day of the Lord comes after Satan's Great Tribulation.

The Great Tribulation is Satan's Wrath. The Day of the Lord comes after and is God's Wrath. It is really important that you understand this. I know it doesn't fit your fanciful story about a Pre-Trib rapture that you have been taught since Sunday School but the facts are as they are.

This is because you have read certain passages without fully understanding them.

10 'Thus says the Lord God: "On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan:

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish...

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

4 No one calls for justice, Nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and speak lies; They conceive evil and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch vipers' eggs and weave the spider's web; He who eats of their eggs dies, And from that which is crushed a viper breaks out.
14 Justice is turned back, And righteousness stands afar off; For truth is fallen in the street, And equity cannot enter. 15 So truth fails, And he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. Then the Lord saw it, and it displeased Him That there was no justice.

23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. 24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. 38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

There was no such thing.
IOW, Adams sin was the original sin/rebelliuon. Any teaching or notion of another prior race/beings is heresy.

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

The great trib starts with the 4 horsemen and ends with the second coming. The whole thing has a greater wrath in the second half,but tthere is no indication whatsoeever that the 4 horsemen are NOT released fromm heaven and the WRATH they carry is a nominal "trouble" (tribulation) as 1/3 of men and half the planet are already destroyed a few months/weeks into the 7 yr GT.4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword...........
............ And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
"..............power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth........."
So,if satan acted alone,why does he not just do the "peace removal" now?(this shows you the church is absent,and why peace CAN be removed,and where the "power given" came from)

How can some read this and minimize it???

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

PlainWord said:

Staightshot, if you want to quote something, rather than just copying the text then responding to it, try using the bubble on the top right of the tool bar. Highlight the text you want to copy then You can use "Control C" then hit the bubble button, then do "Control V" and the text will go inside the bubble. It will make it easier for you and us to see what you are quoting and responding to. Just a hint.

tried it,but did something wrong

Straightshot · Dec 7, 2014

I don't use the quoting system on any forum PW ..... too much wasted repetition .... it just clogs up the forum with unneeded wordage

Good luck with your post-tribulation resurrection ruse .... the pied pipers of "devil lie" have snookered you

Do not second guess the Lord [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19; 16:15] .... if you wait until you are in the tribulation you will be able to count the days to His appearing at the end of it ..... and there will not be a resurrection for you

Make certain that you accommodate His brethren of Israel during their time of trouble .... you do not want to be a goat on the Lord's left

Sophia · Dec 7, 2014

Straightshot said:

Why do people assume that someone's opinion on when the Rapture/Resurrection takes place is going to somehow affect them being Raptured/Resurrected? The Gospel is not a college level course. The Pharisees and Saducees fought over silly things like this too. What benefit was it to them? How funny will it be when God does it all in some way that makes all of us wrong about what we thought was going to happen!

Sophia · Dec 7, 2014

Until the 1800s, all Believers were either amillenial, postmillenial, post trib premillenial, or agnostic about the topic. Will they not be resurrected if they were wrong? A very silly thought.
(I say "silly" in a very serious tone)

Straightshot · Dec 7, 2014

"Why do people assume that someone's opinion on when the Rapture/Resurrection takes place is going to somehow affect them being Raptured/Resurrected?"

No assumption

Here is why

The denominations of the professing church are loaded with members that think they are saved for various reasons and are not .... those deceived by false teaching and those self deceived .... and many who argue against the pre-tribulation "rapture" reflect this condition ... but not always

It is this condition of spiritual depravity that the Lord warns about and so He says that one must be ready [either just before they die physically, or if alive at His coming for His true ecclesia]

Notice that His warning to the "church" is stated in Matthew 25:1-13 and Revelation 3:15-19

Those warned are the unsaved who think they are saved .... and if they do not repent and are not borne again He will not save them for eternity

Examples of religious organizations that create cultures of these kinds of people are the RCC, most of the protestant denominations of today, and even fundamental cult like memberships

This would also include any human for that matter who thinks they are good enough and not concerned about what happens to them when they die

However, the Lord is observing the professing church

One who truly preaches and or teaches the Gospel has the responsibility to point this out to others, not judging any, but to lead them to the truth about the matter

It must be understood that it is the Lord's warning from His Word that one must deal with

What often happens is that when the warning is given, people will accuse the messenger of passing judgment upon others

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

Sophia said:

False
Pretrib is on record throughout church history
Jesus comes with the saints in mat 24,rev 19
So even pre history we see the pretrib rapture.

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

Will they not be resurrected if they were wrong?

Resurrected...yes (that would include martyers and dead saints) ..pretrib
Caught up pretrib? ...no
Why? they are not even looking for the groom,....to them he is NOT COMING.
No faith=no rapture (mat 25=Even the ones waiting were denied due to Proceedures")

popeye · Dec 7, 2014

It is impossible for the reader of mat 25 (the ten virgin parable) to miss the timing of the event. Only pretrib fits. Nothing else allows for the foolish virgins to be "christian" ,which is a slam dunk,no brainer.

When does the rapture occur?

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