When does the rapture occur?

[Elin]

And the clear and certain teaching of the NT is that the rapture occurs at the end of time.

we are resurracted at Jesus 2nd coming, God comes only at the end of time,

The clear and certain teaching of the NT is that Jesus comes at the end of time, shown here.

Unfulfilled prophetic riddles are interpreted to mean entirely different things within the body of Christ.
Our private and uncertain interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles must agree with NT teaching.

once evil is removed from earth, after 1000 year reign with rod of iron.

egypt will be punished with (no rain), living waters are flowing from the city.

this is rain, not the spirit falling down, spirt is a river here

 

[prove-all]

The clear and certain teaching of the NT is that Jesus comes at the end of time, shown here.

Our private and uncertain interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles must agree with NT teaching.

youre private interpertation of danial, you throw out clear revelation in the new testament.

sorry to say God seems not to have given you this ability,

but you are a child of God too also

 

[PlainWord]

In old testament times when an important guest was arriving, those receiving him would go out and meet him on the road and escort him on the last bit of his journey to the host's home. Christ's return will be in the same manner. Christ, as He approaches, gathers us to Him. We have the wedding feast and then accompany Him on His path to earth. It's all one event, known as the second coming to us.

I'm not too sure about this. We don't have anything explicitly telling us that we join Christ as he approaches earth. We are simply told that His angels are sent out to gather us.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So we see the Son of Man coming. Then what?

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We are told that He sends His angels to gather His elect. We don't know if Christ is already on earth when He does this. We know that He is seen standing on the Mount of Olives with 144,000, that much we know.

For those that think 1 Thes 4:13-17 describes the return of Christ, better think again. It doesn't. This is the Return of God, the Father. He comes back too.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

 

[Elin]

i believe revelations has the chronology of end time events,

we have to put other books,or verses into it at the proper place.

hope this helps

Others in the body of Christ see the visions in Revelation, not as a successive chronology,
but as structured like the book of Daniel where
the sum of prophecy revealed by the Son of Man (Da 10:4-9)
from the book of God's eternal decrees (Da 10:21, 12:1)
regarding the OT church/assembly (Da 2:28, 8:26, 10:14) and its end (Da 8:19),
are given in four progressive parallelisms (chp 2, 7, 8, 10-12) each revealing
more detail of the same events and things,
whose numbers and time frame are not literal (Da 9:24-27),

and the book of Revelation where
the sum of prophecy revealed by the Son of Man (Rev 1:12-18)
from the book of God's eternal decrees (Rev 5:1-5, 6:1, 10:1-4, 8-10, 20:12)
regarding the NT church/assembly (Rev 1:19, 10:11) and its end (Rev 10:7, 11:18, 16:17, 21:6),
are given in seven (completion) progressive parallelisms (chp 1-3, 4-7, 8-11, 12-14, 15-16,
17-19, 20-22) each revealing more detail of the same events and things,
and, like the book of Daniel, whose numbers and time frame are not literal.

And because there are such differing interpretations of unfulfilled prophetic riddles in the body of Christ,
clear and certain NT teaching (not prophetic riddles) must govern all private and uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles in order that the Bible not contradict itself.

And that leaves us with Jesus returning at the end of time, as shown here.

 

[Elin]

The clear and certain teaching of the NT is that Jesus comes at the end of time, shown here.

Our private and uncertain interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles must agree with NT teaching.

youre private interpertation of danial, you throw out clear revelation in the new testament.

No clear and certain teaching, not subject to uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles, of the NT is "thrown out."

 

[prove-all]

No clear and certain teaching, not subject to uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles, of the NT is "thrown out."

Danials, the statue of mans ruling kingdom on earth,

is smashed and Christ rules with rod of iron,

youre view that has happened allready.

sorry but the current kings on earth are not following Jesus now.

 

[prove-all]

(Elin)

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him
(a thousand years),

​

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
(reigned with Christ a thousand years).

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him
(a thousand years).

​

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,
( till the thousand years) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

clear verses that say a 1000 years you dismiss, why?​

​

 

[Elin]

Danials, the statue of mans ruling kingdom on earth,

is smashed and Christ rules with rod of iron,

youre view that has happened allready.

sorry but the current kings on earth are not following Jesus now.

I understand that is your private and uncertain interpretation of that prophetic riddle in Daniel.

Others interpret it differently.

Our interpretations must be in agreement with clear and certain NT teaching, which is not subject
to private and uncertain interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles.

 

[Elin]

(Elin)

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him
(a thousand years),

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
(reigned with Christ a thousand years).
​

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him (a thousand years).

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,
( till the thousand years) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

clear verses that say a 1000 years you dismiss, why?​

​

​

Prophetic riddles often contain much symbolism.

Others see that as symbolic of the church age.

 

[prove-all]

Prophetic riddles often contain much symbolism.

Others see that as symbolic of the church age.

so the church age is only 1000 years,

i though his church, 7 church eras, 7 angeles

he was with us , and not leave us.

so what happened to the other 1500 years since,

if it is only 1000 year long

 

[Elin]

so the church age is only 1000 years,

No. . .1000 is one of those numbers of completion, totality, like 7, 12, multiples of 12, etc.
and in this case is seen as symbolic of the totality of the church age.

i though his church, 7 church eras, 7 angeles

he was with us , and not leave us.

And seven parallelisms.

 

[Hepsibah]

Luke 17:26-36 -explains the day of rapture

Mark 13 - Entire chronology of end time events

Comparing Luke17:31 and Mark 13:15,16 one can clearly understand that the rapture occurs immediately after the abomination is revealed.

 

[john832]

Luke 17:26-36 -explains the day of rapture

Mark 13 - Entire chronology of end time events

Comparing Luke17:31 and Mark 13:15,16 one can clearly understand that the rapture occurs immediately after the abomination is revealed.

Luke 17 has to do with the church fleeing to a place of safety, not the resurrection...

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

do you think that at the times of these angels sounding the seven trumpets, life on earth will be carrying on as usual?

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Lot fled to a place of safety, a little town named Zoar.

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Christ is coming...

Read Rev 19:11 through the end of the chapter and consider what is going on here. Would you be on your housetop? Now if you even were, would the first thought that entered your mind be to run down the ladder, into the house and grab up your stuff? If you were even in the field when all of these things took place, would the first thought be to run back to your house and get your stuff?

Now if conditions had not gotten to that point yet and it was just before beginning of the tribulation and you saw the AoD, you might consider running into the house to get a change of underwear and a toothbrush to take with you to a place of safety where the church will be protected for the 3-1/2 years.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Oh and by the way, when you are fleeing for your life...

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

And don't even consider turning back.

 

[Hepsibah]

I look at Luke 17 26-36 as referring to the day of the rapture.

The Lord admonishes us to remember Lots wife.

Lots wife did not waste time in gathering things. She was running along with her family. Here it refers to her heart condition not the time factor. The angel instructed her not to turn back. It required hating the place of sin not longing after anything in that sinful place.

And Luke 17:33 says Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

The meaning of the above verse is leaving our temporal to gain the eternal.
It does not refer to leaving something to save our earthly life.

And he who is on the house top and his goods are in the house let him not come down to take them away.
Without coming down and staying on top. What is accomplished?

I think some see half a glass of water as half full while others see it as half empty.

 

[PlainWord]

We are all a bunch of idiots!! I just fell off my chair when I realized this. Some may think me crazy but I truly believe what I am about to share is the truth.

The first thing that happens is not the Return of Christ. It is the return of heaven itself and heaven returns immediately after the Tribulation. This causes a massive earthquake and the darkening of the sun and stars as heaven partially blocks them. The appearance of physical heaven in close proximity with earth will cause spectacular chaos on earth as described below.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. ...the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

We are told the below a bunch of times. Anyone ever stop to think what this really means and how it fits?

Psalm 110:1

The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

I always wondered how Christ could return before God. I just figure God caused all these bad things to happen remotely. But in reality, I think His Vials of the Wrath are poured out while He is in close proximity BEFORE Christ leaves his right hand. This is exactly what the below passage from Rev 6 says, as we continue reading...

“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

They have time to hide in caves, time to understand what is happening before Christ actually returns to earth. How? Because they see God sitting on His throne literally in the sky above them. Notice the above includes both God and the Lamb? They are still together.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues... ...Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”

I believe Heaven was in close proximity to earth before, but that's a topic for another day.

 

[john832]

We are all a bunch of idiots!!

Speak for yourself. LOL.

 

[prove-all]

No. . .1000 is one of those numbers of completion, totality, like 7, 12, multiples of 12, etc.
and in this case is seen as symbolic of the totality of the church age.


And seven parallelisms.

do you have a verse for that, symbolic, it does not jive sorry, 7 is # here.

rev is the time order, put into it, not other way a round,but need to know danial chapters,

Danial see going forward adding on , unless in night vision, that happen in (his) past,

but John talks about past events, current , then future.



1000 year church age does not even close, church eras are progressive till His return.

I guess it ended so we can go home now, no millinium rule of Jesus, no rod to strike mortal on earth.

or kingdoms of man are subdued, i do not see kings doing good still on earth,but a bowel for tears.

the stone that smashes that statue, at his 2 comming, at the trumpet call,at our change.


no the seven churches are in revilings[rev] thing that is, and things to come.

again youre interpation[private]that you do not see verses not lining up an force something.


Danial statue is still going, rome 4th beast was dead , are so everyone through,

the churched healed the wound, and Danial is a latter days book, not understood until now, unsealed-rev..

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.



rome ended...out of ten horns, 4th little horn,one anti christ religon, growing in europe now,

with sunday observance law in europe and soon else where, the mother of it all.

pushed by pope, now one more time comming, but only a sheep in wolves clothing.


you throw out my view and inforce youres, on private inter.

8In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,

has Christ done this, mortals punished over city.


p.s. sorry about past edit crack, was my bad.

 

[john832]

We are all a bunch of idiots!! I just fell off my chair when I realized this. Some may think me crazy but I truly believe what I am about to share is the truth.

The first thing that happens is not the Return of Christ. It is the return of heaven itself and heaven returns immediately after the Tribulation.

This is absolutely contrary to scripture.

 

[popeye]

The first thing that happens is not the Return of Christ. It is the return of heaven itself and heaven returns immediately after the Tribulation.

No,No,and No.
Heaven "returns" AFTER THE 100K. ...THE NEW JERUSALEM.
Rev 19; Jesus w/ saints on white horses. Heaven stays put.

The added bonus of postribs; "He ain't coming folks"!!!
The bible ;"come lord Jesus"

You postribs have any idea what you are doing??????

 

[RickyZ]

Yes... we are preparing for the days ahead. Like Jesus told us to, lest we be caught unawares and abandon Him. Like He said so many will.