WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?
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Insert your pre trib rapsure where it belongs here
Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Uh,lets see,Angels gather NOT JESUS
And they that are gathered are where????......IN HEAVEN
THEY ARE GATHERED FROM/IN HEAVEN.
You know,like rev 19 says....WE ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN DURING THE GT.
Thanks for affirming the bride is in heaven DURING THE GT.
WHO IS DEATH? Satan.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED. You would have to be here for that.
10 DAY Trial, You would have to be here for that
WITH STAND You would have to be here for that
OVERCOME You would have to be here for that
You seem to have no problem deeming yourself "worthy" and throwing everyone else under the bus with an attitude of sarcasm and judgment of them.
Comical?? POOF Presto??. Such carnality. Any fruit of the Holy Spirit you would like to bring to this BIBLE DISCUSSION? At the VERY LEAST you are saying that GODS ELECT, who will STAND for the Word of God during the tribulation of Satan are a joke. Children of God who are willing and worthy to suffer FOR HIM. Not sure how that is going to look and I am not one to judge but I am sure glad I wont be standing in your shoes.
And yes, I can feel your hatred. Yet still, I am not worried about a hair on my head. It is your lack of faith that causes your fear. Remember this when Satan has come and you have been deceived into believing he is Christ returned and you start to see those who oppose him in their 10 day trials. Hopefully it will not be to late. And yes, you will be here on earth. Where incidentally, Jesus is returning to at the 2nd Advent, as lord of Lord and king of Kings. Do you know how He can be called that??
I am going to go out on a limb and say you also believe in OSAS and haven't studied any of the Old Testament believing it doesn't have anything to do with you or the future.
I DON'T HAVE A DEAL. you do.
I will explain the bride if we ever resolve the rest. Why is it you never respond to most of the scriptures? Just wondering
DO NOT BE DECEIVED. You would have to be here for that.
10 DAY Trial, You would have to be here for that
WITH STAND You would have to be here for that
OVERCOME You would have to be here for that
You seem to have no problem deeming yourself "worthy" and throwing everyone else under the bus with an attitude of sarcasm and judgment of them.
Comical?? POOF Presto??. Such carnality. Any fruit of the Holy Spirit you would like to bring to this BIBLE DISCUSSION? At the VERY LEAST you are saying that GODS ELECT, who will STAND for the Word of God during the tribulation of Satan are a joke. Children of God who are willing and worthy to suffer FOR HIM. Not sure how that is going to look and I am not one to judge but I am sure glad I wont be standing in your shoes.
And yes, I can feel your hatred. Yet still, I am not worried about a hair on my head. It is your lack of faith that causes your fear. Remember this when Satan has come and you have been deceived into believing he is Christ returned and you start to see those who oppose him in their 10 day trials. Hopefully it will not be to late. And yes, you will be here on earth. Where incidentally, Jesus is returning to at the 2nd Advent, as lord of Lord and king of Kings. Do you know how He can be called that??
I am going to go out on a limb and say you also believe in OSAS and haven't studied any of the Old Testament believing it doesn't have anything to do with you or the future.
I DON'T HAVE A DEAL. you do.
I will explain the bride if we ever resolve the rest. Why is it you never respond to most of the scriptures? Just wondering
I do not believe in turning all the worlds in the Bible into Symbols that mean something else.. That's where people come up with some very weird interpretations of scripture.. Often the Bible means literally what it says and sometimes it is using symbolism.. Through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit we can know when it's literal and when it is symbolic..
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Just to ponder,
It isn't too weird to find a mass or group to be referred to as "a cloud" cloud of blossoms, cloud of ladybug, cloud of balloons, etc.
Who is coming with Jesus when He returns?
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(Looks like everyone is going to be here for this too)
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
(Looks like everyone is going to run the race too)
1 Thess 4:17 Then we the living remaining, together with them, will be caught away in clouds for meeting of the Lord in air and so always with Lord we will be.
529 apantesis a meeting
the act of meeting, to meet (a phrase seemingly almost technical for the RECEPTION of a newly arrived official)
109 aer air, the lower air we breathe
particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer
It isn't too weird to find a mass or group to be referred to as "a cloud" cloud of blossoms, cloud of ladybug, cloud of balloons, etc.
Who is coming with Jesus when He returns?
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(Looks like everyone is going to be here for this too)
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
(Looks like everyone is going to run the race too)
1 Thess 4:17 Then we the living remaining, together with them, will be caught away in clouds for meeting of the Lord in air and so always with Lord we will be.
529 apantesis a meeting
the act of meeting, to meet (a phrase seemingly almost technical for the RECEPTION of a newly arrived official)
109 aer air, the lower air we breathe
particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer
Yes sometimes the word cloud has a symbolic meaning in scripture.. I said as much in my last post.. The problem comes when people think all mentions of clouds in the bible carry the symbolic meaning.. And yes when Jesus feet touch down on the mount of olives His Saints will be coming down with Him.. Because they have just been raptured up into the sky too meet Him as He arrives..
Zechariah 14: KJV
1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Zechariah 14: KJV
1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Please understand I write in response to you but also for others who read and don't comment, hence the "just to ponder".
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Those who are changed on earth wont be many according to
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth THE WHOLE WORLD he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The whole world will be deceived except those who are ready with the wisdom and knowledge of God, the full gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan.
Do you know how many people believe that tribulation period will be a period of great "torture"? They don't even study enough to know that it isn't
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Have you ever thought about how "accessible" the Bible has become? Not only is the Word available in book, now through satellite tv and internet, access to any language along with preachers and teachers world wide. If you want to get to know God in this day and age, you are without excuse for lack of knowledge. Seek and ye shall find. Don't and you won't. I would say that that has been fulfilled.
Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
(and the brightness of HIS COMING shall destroy)
It is through "mans traditions" of "ugly" Satan coming to torture that will deceive many. But what is it Satan wants? What has he always wanted? TO BE WORSHIPPED AS GOD.
What did Satans temptation of Jesus consist of?? I will GIVE you, if you worship me. That will be the Tribulation of Satan on us.
It is going to be a WAR FOR YOUR SOUL, through DECEPTION. He is an "abomination" because he OPPOSES the True GOD. The TRUTH of God.
You can't go around torturing and killing the world if you want to be worshipped as God.
No, the deadly wound will be healed, And the world will "THINK" Satan has saved it and as he is performing wonderous things, miracles, this supernatural being will give you all you have ever wanted and bring "Peace and safety" to the world.
Problem is it is a FAKE PEACE.
Believed by the world to be real BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T READ AND STUDY THE BOOK, THE LETTER GOD SENT TO US TO "keep us from temptation", keep us from being deceived. The fiery darts are lies, not bullets. And these lies started thousands of years ago. And the system has been "under construction" all that time.
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Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness
Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness
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Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap
Judgment to the disobedient, Mercy to the obedient.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Fullers soap - The water boiling into which spotted clothes are put in to soak, and when taken out, rubbing out spots any spots and whitened.
Refiners fire - a fire so hot the metal becomes liquid and all the impurities are separated from the pure metal.
Only the TRUTH OF GODS WORD will stand, all the "traditions and theories of man", the slag or dross will not survive.
Spotted men with their spotted doctrine will not fair well, at least not in the beginning.
Those expecting Him to judge the heathen first, will find themselves being judged first.
Put on the full gospel armor. If you think God will take excuses, of any sort, He already told you what happens to those who preach a false doctrine "Get away, I never knew you". No excuses like but " I thought", but my preacher said, no buts, etc.
Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time for it is an evil time.
Amos 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Amos 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD, saith thus Wailing shall be in all street and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amos 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Judgment to the disobedient, Mercy to the obedient.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Fullers soap - The water boiling into which spotted clothes are put in to soak, and when taken out, rubbing out spots any spots and whitened.
Refiners fire - a fire so hot the metal becomes liquid and all the impurities are separated from the pure metal.
Only the TRUTH OF GODS WORD will stand, all the "traditions and theories of man", the slag or dross will not survive.
Spotted men with their spotted doctrine will not fair well, at least not in the beginning.
Those expecting Him to judge the heathen first, will find themselves being judged first.
Put on the full gospel armor. If you think God will take excuses, of any sort, He already told you what happens to those who preach a false doctrine "Get away, I never knew you". No excuses like but " I thought", but my preacher said, no buts, etc.
Amos 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time for it is an evil time.
Amos 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Amos 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD, saith thus Wailing shall be in all street and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amos 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
"And yes, I can feel your hatred. Yet still, I am not worried about a hair on my head"
Uh,no.
Not at all
I even commended you for your excellent posts in the works thread.
I have fun in here.
It is intense in a good way.
My "job",as i see it,is to put all on the table,your verses,my verses,and everybodies verses,and take my position from there.
Then you are forced to go against the Word of God.
That is my purpose.
And i have done exactly that.
You have not addressed,and can not,rev 14 alongside 1 thes 4.
Thread killer big time.
But your emotions have you in a different mix.
Sorry for that my sister. I know you are a saved child of God,by your posts on other subjects.
We differ greatly,but i have the biblical high ground....big time
Uh,no.
Not at all
I even commended you for your excellent posts in the works thread.
I have fun in here.
It is intense in a good way.
My "job",as i see it,is to put all on the table,your verses,my verses,and everybodies verses,and take my position from there.
Then you are forced to go against the Word of God.
That is my purpose.
And i have done exactly that.
You have not addressed,and can not,rev 14 alongside 1 thes 4.
Thread killer big time.
But your emotions have you in a different mix.
Sorry for that my sister. I know you are a saved child of God,by your posts on other subjects.
We differ greatly,but i have the biblical high ground....big time
"For this we declare to you in the word of theLord, that we the living, remaining unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those having fallen asleep,"
1 thes 4
Hmmmm,no christians taken untill those asleep in Christ are resurrected,and immeditely those alive are taken to meet those resurrected IN THE AIR.
BUT...what a dilemma for a post trib rapture in rev 14;
13 and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Hmmm,so paul was mistaken.
Jesus takes the living DURING THE GT.!!!!
OOOPS!!!!
1 thes 4
Hmmmm,no christians taken untill those asleep in Christ are resurrected,and immeditely those alive are taken to meet those resurrected IN THE AIR.
BUT...what a dilemma for a post trib rapture in rev 14;
13 and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Hmmm,so paul was mistaken.
Jesus takes the living DURING THE GT.!!!!
OOOPS!!!!
SO,by failing to test fit verses,we see not only the IMPOSSIBILITY to a post trib rapture,but those assuming that position poorly thought that doctrine out.
But lo,the major,major clue was Jesus picturing lot and noah as examples.
Neither went anywhere post trib.!!!!
Nor did the baby Jesus, the 5 wise virgins,or ruth the gentile bride.
There is nothing pointing to a postrib rapture.
But lo,the major,major clue was Jesus picturing lot and noah as examples.
Neither went anywhere post trib.!!!!
Nor did the baby Jesus, the 5 wise virgins,or ruth the gentile bride.
There is nothing pointing to a postrib rapture.