WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

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DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I am aware of one particular angel who wanted to "GO UP HIGHER" (and took some with him in that "aspiration", apparently)… as in setting his sights in his own 5 "I WILLs"... Is that what you mean??



You mean you believe [those created to be] "angels" are (or were supposed to be) "waiting to be born" of water (womb)?? hmm... interesting. o_O
Absolutely.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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So, to you, "I WILL ASCEND" is equated with "let's go down lower"... okay then. :rolleyes:
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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Who do you believe "the morning stars" are, who "sang together"??



So you believe Jeremiah existed "before time" did??



2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

2 Peter 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2 Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2 Peter 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.




2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


REMEMBER 2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly. Did the world perish or was there man and animal saved? Were there "trees" still left? If not where did the "branch" come from?


2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

What does perished mean? Does it remind you of anything, like Genesis And the earth was without form, and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters?

Did God create the "world without form and void and in darkness?
And if so then what was meant by God when He said
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited I am the LORD; and there is none else.

When was it that Satan, a protector of the Mercy Seat, made the full pattern, was found with iniquity? If the garden of Eden was the very beginning and there was ALREADY a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, when did it come from?


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (We are in the "age" that man is made flesh, so Noah, a flesh man is of the "which are now")

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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So, to you, "I WILL ASCEND" is equated with "let's go down lower"... okay then. :rolleyes:

WAS
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Zodiac)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (7-10-7)
"SAYS 'I WILL ASCEND', BUT CAST DOWN" along with that age. katabole.


IS
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The serpent

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The Christ

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The scattered

IS COMING
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
The war

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The silence in heaven

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The tribulation

IS COMING AFTER THAT
Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
The deception, Noahs flood, 5 months

Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
The knowledge and wisdom of God

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Gods Elect

IS COMING AFTER THAT
Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

THE LORD RETURNS AND ALL ARE CHANGED AND THE LORDS DAY BEGINS

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Revelation 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened

THE SEVEN ANGELS WITH THE WRATH OF GOD GO OUT AND NOW ARE THE VIALS TO BE POURED OUT, IN QUICK SUCCESSION BUT WE ARE ALL IN OUR SPIRITUAL BODIES PROTECTED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD TO COME UPON THE UNGODLY, NOT HAVING BEEN DECEIVED, NOT HAVing TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST

Revelation 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Revelation 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Revelation 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I don't believe "the seven LAST plagues" are the STARTING POINT of the wrath of God, for it says, "for IN THEM [7 Vials] the wrath of God WAS COMPLETED" (not where it was STARTED).

We see the "wrath" words in the Ezekiel 38:18-19 "Gog-Magog War" (which I believe is a PART of the "SEAL 2 WARS" [2nd "birth PANG"] toward the BEGINNING of the 7-yr period); because we see how 39:7's wording is parallel to the wording of Genesis 45:1 "there STOOD NO MAN WITH HIM, while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN *UNTO HIS BRETHREN*" (in the SECOND YEAR of his "seven year famine" [v.6]), where Ezek39:7 says (of that event and time-slot), "SO [/IN THIS WAY] will *I MAKE MY HOLY NAME KNOWN* in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL [see Rom9:26/Hos1:10 re: ISRAEL (not 9:25/Hos2:23b re: the Gentiles)]--This is *when* Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13; Rev5:6; [Lam2:3-4 paralleling the wording in 2Th2:7b-8a] at the START of the 7-yr period], and yet "the 24 elders" will have just "fell down and worshipped Him" (NO MAN STOOD WITH HIM, WHILE [JOSEPH] MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO HIS BRETHREN [see also Hosea 5:15-6:3 and Micah 5:3, etc...]).



["know ye not that WE [the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] SHALL JUDGE ANGELS"... Post-trib does not account for this, at all]
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Is it just me,or is there an acceleration in mis interpreting the 144k?
Lately there is a lot of mis labeling of the 144k
It's not you :)

This is exactly how false teachings start. Someone brings in some off-the-wall teaching and then people pick up on it, then all of a sudden it's scripture. It stems from lack of complete study of scripture, just picking out this and that and other false teachings. This is exactly why we have people believing and teaching that the church is going to be gathered after God's wrath and after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.

We shouldn't be surprised though, because God's word warns us that the time was coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine and that they would abandon the truth. And that is exactly what has been happening. When the Lord removes His church from the earth, then the truth will without a doubt, be crystal clear. For when that event takes place, the question will have been answered. Then everyone who wasn't gathered and remains on the earth, will know what to expect next.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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WAS
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Zodiac)

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
The woman is representing Israel, as revealed in Genesis 37:9-10. It is not representing the Zodia!

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (7-10-7)
"SAYS 'I WILL ASCEND', BUT CAST DOWN" along with that age. katabole.
The dragon represents Satan as a whole. He's the one orchestrating.

Seven heads = Seven hills upon which the woman sits and they also represent a succession of seven kings

Ten horns = Ten persons who will receive authority in a short amount of time as kings along with the beast.

IS
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The serpent
Revelation verses 1 thru 6 is a summary, with 7-17 being a detailed account, e.g.

Summary - "His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth!" - (V.4)

Detail - "And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (V.9)

Summary - "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days. " (V.6)

Detail - "But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time." - (V.14)

===================================================

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The Christ
The word "harpazo" translated as "caught up" is defined as "force suddenly exercised. Properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively." It is the same word used to describe Phillip when he was snatched away from the Ethiopian eunuch. And it is the same word used when Paul was "caught up" to the third heaven. All that said, when was Jesus ever snatched up? The answer is that He wasn't! Jesus was crucified, buried, resurrected and later ascended back up into heaven.

Making Jesus out the man child is just a knee-jerk reaction because the woman is Israel and therefore, the male child must be Jesus. The Male Child is a collective name representing the 144,000 who come out of unbelieving Israel, ergo, gives birth to.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The silence in heaven
The half an hour of silence in heaven takes place in between the seventh seal and the first trumpet. Satan and his angels being cast out will be the result of the sounding of the seventh trumpet/3rd woe. You are just misapplying scripture here.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Those who will have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb and who will have not loved their lives unto death, is referring to the great tribulation saints who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17, which is that great number of white robed saints which no one can count from every nation, people, tribe and language, which makes them all Gentiles.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
The deception, Noahs flood, 5 months
The woman giving birth and the dragon being cast down to the earth are future events, not past. Jesus made this clear when He said to John "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this," i.e. after the church period. Therefore, the flood coming out of the mouth of the dragon to overtake the woman/Israel, has nothing at all to do with Noah's flood. Throughout scripture, torrents, rivers, floods, etc., have figuratively represented an army or armies. For example:

"If the Lord had not been on our side—let Israel say—if the Lord had not been on our side when people attacked us, they would have swallowed us alive when their anger flared against us; the flood would have engulfed us, the torrent would have swept over us, the raging waters would have swept us away."

The flood, torrent and raging waters in the scripture above, are figurative representing the people attacking Israel. Here are some more examples:

"His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress."

"Who is this that rises like the Nile, like rivers of surging waters?
Egypt rises like the Nile, like rivers of surging waters. She says, ‘I will rise and cover the earth; I will destroy cities and their people."

There are many more examples in scripture where a flood, torrent, raging waters, are used to represent an army. Therefore, when Revelation states that the dragon/Satan spews water out of his mouth to overtake the woman, it means that after Satan and his angels are cast to the earth, he will be sending and army after the woman/Israel as she is fleeing to that place that God will have prepared for her out in the wilderness.

IS COMING AFTER THAT
Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

THE LORD RETURNS AND ALL ARE CHANGED AND THE LORDS DAY BEGINS
The Lord does not return to the earth at the pouring out of the seven bowl judgments. And this is not where the church is changed and caught up! Those angels having the seven last plagues is referring to the seven bowl judgments which begin in chapter 16. The Lord DOES NOT return to the earth until sometime after the seventh bowl has been poured out. If you don't believe that, look at Rev.16:15.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Those above are once again referring to the great tribulation saints who will have died during the great tribulation. This is the same group of white robed saints mentioned in Rev.7:9-17.

THE SEVEN ANGELS WITH THE WRATH OF GOD GO OUT AND NOW ARE THE VIALS TO BE POURED OUT, IN QUICK SUCCESSION BUT WE ARE ALL IN OUR SPIRITUAL BODIES PROTECTED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD TO COME UPON THE UNGODLY, NOT HAVING BEEN DECEIVED, NOT HAVing TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST
The church will have been changed and caught up before any of God's wrath begins which will have started at the opening of the first seal. If you have the church being changed and caught up just before the pouring out of the seven bowls, you would be putting the church through the seals and trumpets, which are also God's wrath and which we are not appointed to suffer.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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I appreciate your post @DeighAnn and it has given me encouragement to continue. I've seen certain radio hosts basically say what they will say and if you want to listen, fine. If not, tune out. I sort of like that approach and may adopt it.

Olive tree views and voice of the martyrs radio programs are excellent in this regard and I would encourage anyone to check them out. Basically Post-trib pre wrath if I gleaned correctly...but very focused on news and current events that are not reported mainstream, but can be found if you look.


@Ahwatukee perhaps you could private message me. This is a discussion forum, not a pulpit, a radio ministry, and outreach or even a bible study. It is a discussion... I think I was clear I think it is unscriptural for the church "at large" to be here during wrath, unless you do not believe the 144,000 are part of the body.

False teaching is too serious of a charge to ignore. All the viewpoints that have been presented to me are from private reading and cerebration. If something is error, fine. I'm here to search/seek/knock and grow...to discuss and augment. Gain encouragement and edification and give the same if I may. Strife and dissension can come from simply misreading and being in a negative frame of mind. Yule masquerading as Jesus birthday puts me there, and I find I often get depressed and heartbroken. Hopefully I can continue to glean from your posts.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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We see the "wrath" words in the Ezekiel 38:18-19 "Gog-Magog War" (which I believe is a PART of the "SEAL 2 WARS" [2nd "birth PANG"] toward the BEGINNING of the 7-yr period);

Is this what you are saying here?


Ezekiel 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Ezekiel 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Revelation 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Revelation 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Revelation 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Revelation 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.



Revelation 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Revelation 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Revelation 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Revelation 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Revelation 16:21
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

So do you believe these are events that will happen once when Ezekiel is speaking of it, and again at a later time?

I don't know, do you believe that Satan (666) comes at the 6th seal, 6th trump and the 6th vial and Jesus returns at the 7th seal, 7th trump and the 7th vial? or do you believe that the "seals" are actual events (if so do you believe they are given in order or in order of importance?) followed by the trumps being actual events followed by the vials being actual events? Do you believe that the "seals" are (the knowledge and wisdom) of future events that are going to take place that Gods people receive in their foreheads, so they are aware that when they hear a trump, (battle cry) that a vial is being poured out? (action)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Is this what you are saying here?
[…]
[note that where it says in Ezek "IN THAT DAY" (38:19) that I do not believe this refers merely to "a singular 24-hr day" but a "TIME PERIOD of much duration [involving JUDGMENTS]"]

The Second Seal: War

3 And when He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come!”
4 And another horse went forth, bright red; and to the one sitting on it, to him was granted to take the peace from the earth, and that they will slay one another [see Ezek38:21]; and a great sword was given to him.

The Third Seal: Famine

5 And when He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, “Come!”
And I looked, and behold, a black horse, and the one sitting on it having a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A choenix of wheat for a denarius,a and three choenixes of barley for a denarius; and you should not injure the oil and the wine.”

The Fourth Seal: Death

7 And when He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come!”
8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and the one sitting on it, the name of him was Death, and Hades was following with him; and authority was given to them over the fourth of the earth, to kill with sword [see Ezek38:21], and with famine, and with plague [see Ezek38:22-23], and by the beasts of the earth.

The Fifth Seal: The Martyrs

9 And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those having been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had upheld.


[and, parallel to the above, "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [plural]"]

4 And Jesus answering, said to them, “Take heed, lest anyone [G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'] mislead you [<--that is the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period, at the same moment of the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" 2Th2:9a/8a]. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many [2Th2:9b-12]. 6 And you will begin to hear of wars and rumors of wars. Behold, do not be alarmed; for it is necessary to take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes [Ezek38:20b] in various places. 8 And all these are the beginning of birth pains.

[followed by...]

Witnessing to All Nations
(Mark 13:10-13; Luke 21:10-19)

9 Then will they deliver you [the "proleptic 'you'" (believing remnant of Israel in the trib--see Ezek39:7-8)] to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of My name. 10 And then many will fall away, and they will betray one another, and will hate one another; 11 and many false prophets will arise, and will lead many astray [this is still in the first half of the trib, leading up to the mid-point at Matthew 24:15-21, the second half of the 7-yrs starting from there].

So do you believe these are events that will happen once when Ezekiel is speaking of it, and again at a later time?
I believe the mention of "Gog Magog" in Rev20:8 (at the end of the MK age) is at a distinct time-slot (not the same events as here at "the beginning of birth PANGS" in the trib yrs leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth)

I don't know, do you believe that Satan (666) comes at the 6th seal, 6th trump and the 6th vial and Jesus returns at the 7th seal, 7th trump and the 7th vial?
I believe "the man of sin" ARRIVES [2Th2:9a/8a (Dan9:27a[26]) ; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "A CERTAIN ONE" ; Rev6:2 ] at the FIRST SEAL, at the START of the 7-yr trib [the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL [TIME PERIOD]" i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]"... THEN LATER (at mid-trib) is when the Rev13:5-7/Dan7:20-25 thing starts (same time as 2Th2:4, Matt24:15-21) which is at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe [unto the earth; @ Rev12:12,13-17]" [--i.e. mid-trib]

I believe the SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS are SEQUENTIAL (the SEALS and the first FOUR TRUMPETS are in the FIRST HALF, with 5th Trumpet at MID-TRIB; so the last 3 TRUMPETS with the "3 WOES" attached with them plus then the 7 VIALS are in the SECOND HALF).

I believe "the four living creatures" (involved with the announcing of the SEALS events) represent in some way the "four-directional plotment of Israel" in OT times (their descriptions being the same--I made a post about that long ago), I won't go into that here...

or do you believe that the "seals" are actual events (if so do you believe they are given in order or in order of importance?) followed by the trumps being actual events followed by the vials being actual events? Do you believe that the "seals" are (the knowledge and wisdom) of future events that are going to take place that Gods people receive in their foreheads, so they are aware that when they hear a trump, (battle cry) that a vial is being poured out? (action)
I believe you may be referring to the "144,000 [servants of our God 7:3 (see also 1:1)]," whom I believe are the "firstfruit" [Rev14:4] of the "WHEAT harvest" (distinct harvest) [Lev23:17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"--the SECOND mention/kind of "firstfruit" in Lev23]; parallel Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 when the "angels" will "REAP" ("wheat" vs "tares"--at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth [NOT "our Rapture"])

More, but this post is long enough... :D
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I believe "the man of sin" ARRIVES [2Th2:9a/8a (Dan9:27a[26]) ; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "A CERTAIN ONE" ; Rev6:2 ] at the FIRST SEAL, at the START of the 7-yr trib [the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL [TIME PERIOD]" i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]"... THEN LATER (at mid-trib) is when the Rev13:5-7/Dan7:20-25 thing starts (same time as 2Th2:4, Matt24:15-21) which is at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe [unto the earth; @ Rev12:12,13-17]" [--i.e. mid-trib]
So, where I mentioned 2Th2:8a (the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" at the START of the trib yrs, SEAL #1), I made a post some time back showing the parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and that of Lam2:3-4 [context with "wrath" words]:

[quoting that post]

The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),

--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and

--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."




IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")

--the "whose COMING" v.9a and the v.8a "be revealed" of the "man of sin" is at the START of the 7-yrs, equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (1Th5:2-3); Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']" i.e. SEAL #1 rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "deception"), parallel with Dan9:27a[26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME"... and "for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--so this is at the START of the 7-yrs, not at its MIDDLE, and not at its END; 2Th2:3-9a is covering ALL 7 yrs (in its THREE PARTS: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END), just as Dan9:27[26] is: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END [7-yrs]

[end quoting]

____________

[the "he, he, he" of Dan9:27[26] IS the "who, who, who" of 2Th2:3-9a (the 'man of sin' IN HIS TIME)--BOTH PASSAGES covering ALL 7-yrs of the trib--its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, *and* its END]
 

DeighAnn

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So, where I mentioned 2Th2:8a (the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" at the START of the trib yrs, SEAL #1), I made a post some time back showing the parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and that of Lam2:3-4 [context with "wrath" words]:

[quoting that post]

The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),

--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and

--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."




IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")

--the "whose COMING" v.9a and the v.8a "be revealed" of the "man of sin" is at the START of the 7-yrs, equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (1Th5:2-3); Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']" i.e. SEAL #1 rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "deception"), parallel with Dan9:27a[26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME"... and "for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--so this is at the START of the 7-yrs, not at its MIDDLE, and not at its END; 2Th2:3-9a is covering ALL 7 yrs (in its THREE PARTS: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END), just as Dan9:27[26] is: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END [7-yrs]

[end quoting]

____________

[the "he, he, he" of Dan9:27[26] IS the "who, who, who" of 2Th2:3-9a (the 'man of sin' IN HIS TIME)--BOTH PASSAGES covering ALL 7-yrs of the trib--its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, *and* its END]


That certainly explains why the Pre Trib Rap is so important to you, I would be looking to get out of here to is that was my understanding of the end times. Most certainly it would take a straight up intervention by the Lord Himself to bring us anywhere near the same understanding. I read, tried to anyhow, a book on taking them as sequential and well...no go for me, to confusing. I do better with the simplicity in which the Word was written.

I do not know why you can over lap a he he he in Dan with a who who who in Th, but not "see" that "a book" has" written" information that was sealed, needed to be unsealed, then needed to be "sealed in the foreheads" before the winds are released, information that had been sealed shut until the worthy Lamb was able to open those seals to reveal the once hidden "information" till now, and how each seal opened gives information of an event that will be taking place, though I admit in order of importance, not chronological order.

How many times does Satan come and go in your version?? 1st seal is one, 6th trump must be another, 6 vial another, then another in thess or does that count as 3 times since they are written one after another??? , and then there is the one in Matt, one in Mark, one in Luke, or can those overlap? How do you discern what can overlap from what can't? Why is it God has the exact same events happening again and again?? Not sure how that brings about "love" in those who didn't love Him, or didn't care or were flat out uneducated in His Truth, His Word but... OK

God blinded so others could see. Are those who were blinded "taken"? What is the difference between a "church member and an elect"? Do they know it themselves? What if you think you are "church" but you are "elect"? What if you want to stay, can you? What if you want to go, can you? And questions no one ever answers, so the list is just getting longer, do ALL church congregations go? all denominations? Do they just have to "say" we are Christian? What about all those who aren't really teaching His truth and the preacher is just in for the money? Does he stay while they go? What about those who think they are but never really weres? What if someone in the congregation is "an unrepentant sinner", does that effect the whole church or just that person? Is Christ judging you all now? If someone doesn't "attend" a church but studies the Bible do they count as church? What if someone doesn't study the bible but goes and sits on a pew once a week but doesn't know anything more than Christ died for our sins? What about an age limit? Is there a certain age of "accountability" What if you are in the throws of a pre marital affair? Or adultery? Is it just luck of the draw? Is there a moment that will be too late to repent? Do you even have to repent? Are you being "marked" today so that some just have like a "boarding ticket" pre paid?

I ask because from what I read and believe, at the 2nd coming of Christ, EVERY person on the earth will either have the mark of the beast or they wont.
 

DeighAnn

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Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

How many of the 7 churches (candlesticks) did God approve of? two (2)
Where are these 2 churches when the two witnesses are here? here (on earth)
To believe a "pre trib church gathering to be taken away as "the bride" you WOULD HAVE to believe that "bride" is made from only "those 5 churches that were found with fault".

Where do I think the 5 that were lacking are going? On to deception, to the devil, to get their mark, I presume, MOST certainly not to a wedding.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud and their enemies beheld them.

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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To believe a "pre trib church gathering to be taken away as "the bride" you WOULD HAVE to believe that "bride" is made from only "those 5 churches that were found with fault".
I've made this point before, but will put it here (again).

To say "the churchES" is NOT the same thing as saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY".


  • "the churchES" are made up of both "[genuinely] saved persons" *AND* "those who come in His name, but who are not vitally connected with Christ [they are NOT actually SAVED--much of "Christendom" fits in this latter category--they are NOT SAVED]"
  • "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is made up of *ONLY* "saved persons"

… they are not to be EQUATED as though they are the same identical thing, where spoken [written] of, in Scripture (and particularly in Rev2-3, where "the churchES" are being addressed--this does not "mean" the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY exclusively is being addressed, here, in this context of these two chpts)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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How many times does Satan come and go in your version?? 1st seal is one, 6th trump must be another, 6 vial another, then another in thess or does that count as 3 times since they are written one after another???
"Satan"??

I said (re: "the man of sin") that it says of him "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" is "after [/according to] the working of Satan"... the text being referred to (2Th2:9a) is not saying that "the man of sin" IS Satan, but that his coming is "after the WORKING OF Satan". I'm not sure how you got that I think "Satan" is coming and going "multiple times," from my post or posts. ;)
 

DeighAnn

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You mean to say that you believe *we* existed before creation?

Do you mean that you believe the word that is used in Eccl12:7 which is also used in Gen6:17 means that those in this Gen6:17 verse (who were "destroyed") went to heaven?



Do you believe the word "fore-hoped" in Ephesians 1:12 means that *we* existed before time, and "hoped" at that point??
Ecclesiastes 12:3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
Ecclesiastes 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (But not before Judgment, unless you are a fallen angel)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Philipians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom the rich man also died, and was buried
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

AND BEFORE I GET THE "PARABLE" COMMENTS (No, it is not a parable, IMO)
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


Ezekiel 47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
Ezekiel 47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters were to the loins.
Ezekiel 47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
Ezekiel 47:6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
Ezekiel 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.


And for the 2nd part of your question
Do you believe the word "fore-hoped" in Ephesians 1:12 means that *we* existed before time, and "hoped" at that point??[/QUOTE]

Yes, I absolutely believed we existed "before" this age in just the same insane way " YOU BELIEVE WE WILL EXIST AFTER this age". Funny, how one thing can be so clear and without question, yet something EXACTLY the same, just on the other end seems "so crazy".


But like I asked before WHEN DID SATAN GO FROM BEING THE PROTECTOR OF THE MERCY SEAT TO THE SERPENT IN THE GARDEN? GOD DIDN'T JUST "MAKE IT UP".
 

TheDivineWatermark

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"Satan"??

I said (re: "the man of sin") that it says of him "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" is "after [/according to] the working of Satan"... the text being referred to (2Th2:9a) is not saying that "the man of sin" IS Satan, but that his coming is "after the WORKING OF Satan". I'm not sure how you got that I think "Satan" is coming and going "multiple times," from my post or posts. ;)
I mentioned that Satan (and his angels) are "cast down" unto the earth (and limited to that sphere--I believe this is a result of an aspect of his [and their] "judgment") at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe [unto the earth]" time-slot, which is the mid-point of the trib (with 1260 days remaining until Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19).

It is all very "orderly" as I see the "chronology" (spelled out in Rev).
 

DeighAnn

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"Satan"??

I said (re: "the man of sin") that it says of him "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia" is "after [/according to] the working of Satan"... the text being referred to (2Th2:9a) is not saying that "the man of sin" IS Satan, but that his coming is "after the WORKING OF Satan". I'm not sure how you got that I think "Satan" is coming and going "multiple times," from my post or posts. ;)

I don't know how either at this point, like I said, it is hard for me to follow your posts, I get really confused, really fast but I think I am getting better but maybe not. I apologize to you, if you didn't, and for thinking you did.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I mentioned that Satan (and his angels) are "cast down" unto the earth (and limited to that sphere--I believe this is a result of an aspect of his [and their] "judgment") at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe [unto the earth]" time-slot, which is the mid-point of the trib (with 1260 days remaining until Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19).

It is all very "orderly" as I see the "chronology" (spelled out in Rev).


How do you fit the "time being shortened" for the elects sake and references to the hour of temptation, Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Revelation 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Matthew 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I am not certain if it has to do with old age or the prophecy, but the past year or so I find myself seemingly observing the Sabbath every other day, lots of rest, but there really are six days between each. The days just disappear. At first I was thinking our dear Father was making things quicker just for me, but I hear others saying similar things...…….are the days beig shortened? I cannot say, but they seem to fly.