When was the Messiah put in the grave? and when did He resurrect?

[Hizikyah]

You still have not answered this question, what is Jesus teaching in Matthew 20:17-19

“And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”

Once you answer that we can move on to other things, please answer the question.

It means what it says, Yahshua would be physically killed and 3 days later would resurrect.

You can isolate all you want, on the 1st 3 posts I used the majority of Scriptures concerning this matter to Scriptually prove the time line, you single out 3rd day and ignore the rest.

Your entire isolation of "3 days" to form a doctrine goes out the window as soon as these verses are considered;
(this is why on the 1st 3 posts I used many Scriptures to show the timeline, for if one does not take all the evidence into consideration they will not find the truth)

Mark 8:31 “He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.”

Mark 9:31 “He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.”

So then I ask you the same thing I have asked you a few times, if this verse does not mean what I beleive it to mean as you say, then tell me your understanding of it please;

Mat 12:39-40, “But He answering, said to them, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Yonah. For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

 

[Johnny_B]

It means what it says, Yahshua would be physically killed and 3 days later would resurrect.

You can isolate all you want, on the 1st 3 posts I used the majority of Scriptures concerning this matter to Scriptually prove the time line, you single out 3rd day and ignore the rest.

Your entire isolation of "3 days" to form a doctrine goes out the window as soon as these verses are considered;
(this is why on the 1st 3 posts I used many Scriptures to show the timeline, for if one does not take all the evidence into consideration they will not find the truth)

Mark 8:31 “He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.”

Mark 9:31 “He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.”

So then I ask you the same thing I have asked you a few times, if this verse does not mean what I beleive it to mean as you say, then tell me your understanding of it please;

Mat 12:39-40, “But He answering, said to them, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Yonah. For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

Isolate, I post over 15 Scripture where taught that He would suffer before the chief preist, the elders, the teachers of the Law, be condemned to death and rise to life and three of them are the Scripture you posted. Not one of those Scripture say anything about Jesus being died for three day, they say He will suffer all the things that Isaish prophesied.

You still have not posted any Scripture where Jesus literally taught that He would be died for three days and night, all you do is read into the Scripture what you believe, you do not take Jesus at His word. I read all your other posts and they are all just what you believe with again no clear teaching about Jesus being died for the 3 days and nights.

You keep going back to Matthew 12:40 and it says nothing about Him being dead for your time frame. You keep using circular reasoning your unbrakable chain is Matthew 12:40 one Scripture, when Jesus teaches about His atoning work in the Scripture it is very clear.

Look at how Jonah described what happened to him. Johan 2:1-2 "Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said:“I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me.“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, and You heard my voice."

Now let's look at what Isaiah says about Jesus' atoning work Isaiag 53:7

"He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,so He opened not His mouth."

They were both afflicted in what they suffered and we know Sheol is a place of affliction or torment where one suffers and Jesus taught that He would suffer many things, you even posted the Scripture where He taught that, Mark 8:31,
remember what Jesus taught in Luke 24:44.

“Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

He says all things, not one mention of 3 days and nights in the Tomb or it would be in the Law of Moses, the Prophets or the Psalms, so can you find in one of those where it is written that Jesus would be in the Tomb three days and nights?

Isaiah is the prophesy of Christ atoning work and it say nothing about 3 days and night in the Tomb, it eve says that "He made His grave with the wicked." So we know grave can not mean the Tomb because we both know He did not make His grave with the wicked. Or do you believe He was in the Tomb with the wicked?

 

[garee]

Hi Garee,
Very refreshing to read, anyone having good understanding of parable language (hidden meaning) should get a recommendation. It sad that understanding mysteries does not help to grow in Love, but on the bright side those who don't understand have as much Hope to grow up in Christ, and we don't need to try an help God. Be blessed and refreshed, am also fascinated by mysteries.

Thanks it was kind of you.I am sure that at time many feel alienated.

Its away of humbling oneself from not eating to much perceived honey..glorying in the flesh. Not saying I have a better understanding but different. Knowledge puffs up... Love builds up

Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him.1Co 8:1

 

[garee]

Isolate, I post over 15 Scripture where taught that He would suffer before the chief preist, the elders, the teachers of the Law, be condemned to death and rise to life and three of them are the Scripture you posted. Not one of those Scripture say anything about Jesus being died for three day, they say He will suffer all the things that Isaish prophesied.

You still have not posted any Scripture where Jesus literally taught that He would be died for three days and night, all you do is read into the Scripture what you believe, you do not take Jesus at His word. I read all your other posts and they are all just what you believe with again no clear teaching about Jesus being died for the 3 days and nights.

You keep going back to Matthew 12:40 and it says nothing about Him being dead for your time frame. You keep using circular reasoning your unbrakable chain is Matthew 12:40 one Scripture, when Jesus teaches about His atoning work in the Scripture it is very clear.

Look at how Jonah described what happened to him. Johan 2:1-2 "Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said:“I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me.“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, and You heard my voice."

Now let's look at what Isaiah says about Jesus' atoning work Isaiag 53:7

"He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,so He opened not His mouth."

They were both afflicted in what they suffered and we know Sheol is a place of affliction or torment where one suffers and Jesus taught that He would suffer many things, you even posted the Scripture where He taught that, Mark 8:31,
remember what Jesus taught in Luke 24:44.

“Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

He says all things, not one mention of 3 days and nights in the Tomb or it would be in the Law of Moses, the Prophets or the Psalms, so can you find in one of those where it is written that Jesus would be in the Tomb three days and nights?

Isaiah is the prophesy of Christ atoning work and it say nothing about 3 days and night in the Tomb, it eve says that "He made His grave with the wicked." So we know grave can not mean the Tomb because we both know He did not make His grave with the wicked. Or do you believe He was in the Tomb with the wicked?

It does not say he was dead three days but gave his Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit as a living, suffering sacrifice . God cannot die. It is compared to Jonas he was not dead. he was suffering .The death in a twinkling of the eye changed from the corruptible to the incorruptible showed he gave spirit life as that which did profit.. The focus is on the living . Let the dead bury the dead.

 

[Johnny_B]

It means what it says, Yahshua would be physically killed and 3 days later would resurrect.

You can isolate all you want, on the 1st 3 posts I used the majority of Scriptures concerning this matter to Scriptually prove the time line, you single out 3rd day and ignore the rest.

Your entire isolation of "3 days" to form a doctrine goes out the window as soon as these verses are considered;
(this is why on the 1st 3 posts I used many Scriptures to show the timeline, for if one does not take all the evidence into consideration they will not find the truth)

Mark 8:31 “He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.”

Mark 9:31 “He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.”

So then I ask you the same thing I have asked you a few times, if this verse does not mean what I beleive it to mean as you say, then tell me your understanding of it please;

Mat 12:39-40, “But He answering, said to them, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Yonah. For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

That is why you have not found it, when it is right in front of you, but you fulfill the Scriptures,

Jerimiah 5:21-23 “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.22 Do you not fear me? declares the Lord.Do you not tremble before me?I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;though they roar, they cannot pass over it.23 But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away.”

Here we go, here is a direct question to Jesus from Peter and John and James, where they directly asked, what rising from the dead means, in verse 10 of chapter 9 of Mark, and also about Elijah's part in the restoration in verse 11 of Mark 9, Jesus answers in verse 12

Mark 9:9-13 “And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.10 So they kept the matter to themselves, questioning what this rising from the dead might mean.11 And they asked him, “Why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?”12 And he said to them, “Elijah does come first to restore all things. And how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt?13 But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him.”

These three disciples keep the transfiguration to themelves, but questioned what rising from the dead might mean and you can read the answer. The answer was, "how it is written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt?" Here was Jesus' perfect oppertunity to teach that rising from the dead taught about Him being in the Tomb 3 days and nights, but He did not do that. His answer was that He should suffer many things and be treated with contempt, as it is written of the Son of Man. Again, no teaching of Him being in the Tomb for 3 days and nights, He once again taught His disciples that He would/should suffer many things and be treated with contempt or betrayed.

I have to say, I appreciate this discussion because the more you post Matthew 12:40 the more Scriptures I find that teach what was prophesied about the atoning work of Christ would be what would happen to Him in His atoning work.

Like, Luke 24:5c-7 “Why do you seek the living among the dead?6 He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee,7 that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.”

These verses in Mark 9:9-13 “And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.10 So they kept the matter to themselves, questioning what this rising from the dead might mean.11 And they asked him, “Why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?”12 And he said to them, “Elijah does come first to restore all things. And how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt?13 But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him.”

Matthew 16:21 “From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”

Matthew 17:9-12 “And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.”10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?”11 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things.12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.”

Luke 18:31-33 “And taking the twelve, he said to them, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished.32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon.33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.”34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.”

If we keep going maybe I will find more Scripture where Jesus teaches on His atoning work that He must suffer at the hands of the chief priests, elders, teachers of the Law, the Gentiles, to be mocked, spit on, to be flogged, treated with contempt, be condemned to death, be crucified, be put to death and rise to glory after three days or in three days. Because you are not finding Scriptures that teach Jesus would be in the Tomb/grave for 3 days and nights.

 

[Hizikyah]

That is why you have not found it, when it is right in front of you, but you fulfill the Scriptures,

Jerimiah 5:21-23 “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.22 Do you not fear me? declares the Lord.Do you not tremble before me?I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;though they roar, they cannot pass over it.23 But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away.”

You are very rude and speak of things you have no way of knoing yet you proclaim them inaccuraetly...and aothing like misusing a verses to falsely accuse someone?

Jeremiah 5:19-24, "5:19, "“And it shall be, when they say, ‘Why does יהוה our Elohim do all this to us?’ then you shall answer them, ‘As you have forsaken Me and served foreign mighty ones in your land, so you shall serve foreigners in a land that is not yours.’"5:20, "“Declare this in the house of Ya‛aqoḇ and proclaim it in Yehuḏah, saying,"5:21, "Hear this now, O foolish people without heart, who have eyes and see not, and who have ears and hear not:"5:22, "Do you not fear Me?’ declares יהוה. ‘Do you not tremble at My presence, who have placed the sand as the boundary of the sea, by an everlasting law, and it does not pass over it? Though its waves toss to and fro, they are not able; though they roar, they do not pass over it."5:23, "But this people has a backsliding and rebellious heart, they have turned aside and gone away."5:24, "And they do not say in their heart, “Let us now fear יהוה our Elohim, who gives rain, both the former and the latter, in its season. He guards for us, the required-by-law, weeks of the (Shaḇu‛oth) harvest.”

You must have ignored my 1st 3 posts just as you also continually ignore my question to you.

If one takes all the Scriptures into consideration of when each event hapopened from each of the 4 gospels, there is the ability to find the timeline.

 

[Johnny_B]

You are very rude and speak of things you have no way of knoing yet you proclaim them inaccuraetly...and aothing like misusing a verses to falsely accuse someone?

Jeremiah 5:19-24, "5:19, "“And it shall be, when they say, ‘Why does יהוה our Elohim do all this to us?’ then you shall answer them, ‘As you have forsaken Me and served foreign mighty ones in your land, so you shall serve foreigners in a land that is not yours.’"5:20, "“Declare this in the house of Ya‛aqoḇ and proclaim it in Yehuḏah, saying,"5:21, "Hear this now, O foolish people without heart, who have eyes and see not, and who have ears and hear not:"5:22, "Do you not fear Me?’ declares יהוה. ‘Do you not tremble at My presence, who have placed the sand as the boundary of the sea, by an everlasting law, and it does not pass over it? Though its waves toss to and fro, they are not able; though they roar, they do not pass over it."5:23, "But this people has a backsliding and rebellious heart, they have turned aside and gone away."5:24, "And they do not say in their heart, “Let us now fear יהוה our Elohim, who gives rain, both the former and the latter, in its season. He guards for us, the required-by-law, weeks of the (Shaḇu‛oth) harvest.”

You must have ignored my 1st 3 posts just as you also continually ignore my question to you.

If one takes all the Scriptures into consideration of when each event hapopened from each of the 4 gospels, there is the ability to find the timeline.

Can't you come up with anything original, you post the same Scripture I post from Jerimiah and if you would have read my posts I did read you first three post and none of them teach that Jesus was in the Tomb 3 days and nights and if they did you would of reposted them. You have not posted one Scripture where Jesus literally teaches that He would be in the Tomb 3 days and nights. The Scriptures you did post showed that Jesus taught He would suffer many things in those 3 days, no where does He teach Him being in the Tomb for that time frame. When all the Scriptures that I have posted Jesus teaches clearly what I believe what He literally taught that in those 3 days He would suffer many thing, the thing that Isaiah prophesied.

Luke 24:44-46 "Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,"

Does Jesus say He would be in the Tomb for 3 days and night? No.

Again Matthew 20:17-19 “And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,18 “See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death19 and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.”

Jesus is clearly teaching that He would be delievered to the chief priests, scribes, they will condemn Him to death and deliever Him to the Gentiles, he will be mocked, flogged, crucified and rise on the thrid day. He will suffer all those things in the 3 days and rise to life after. Again no mention of Him being in the Tomb for 3 days, you read into the Scriptures what you believe you don't believe what you read in the Scriptures, you read into the Scriptures your doctrine.

Again I have posted many Scriptures where Jesus is teaching about His atoning work being more then his death and resurrection and as I posted I appreciate this discussion because it has lead me to more Scripture where Jesus is teaching on all He would suffer in His atonement just as Isaiah prophesied.

You refuse to submit to the plain teaching of Scripture, brother you allow your doctrine to interpret the Scripture, instead of allowing the Scriptures to interpret your doctrine. You have not and cannot post Scripture where Jesus teaches that He would be in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights, you have to read into the Scripture your doctrine. Because the Scriptures clearly do not teach what you believe. I am not saying that you are not saved, only the Lord can make that call. All I can do is show you what the Scriptures teach, cannot make you believe them.

You do not exegete the Scriptures, you eisegete the Scriptures.

May the Lord Bless You!

 

[shrume]

Jesus is clearly teaching that He would be delievered to the chief priests, scribes, they will condemn Him to death and deliever Him to the Gentiles, he will be mocked, flogged, crucified and rise on the thrid day. He will suffer all those things in the 3 days and rise to life after. Again no mention of Him being in the Tomb for 3 days, you read into the Scriptures what you believe you don't believe what you read in the Scriptures, you read into the Scriptures your doctrine.

That is not what the Bible says. It does not say he will suffer all those things in the three days.

Again I have posted many Scriptures where Jesus is teaching about His atoning work being more then his death and resurrection and as I posted I appreciate this discussion because it has lead me to more Scripture where Jesus is teaching on all He would suffer in His atonement just as Isaiah prophesied.

You refuse to submit to the plain teaching of Scripture, brother you allow your doctrine to interpret the Scripture, instead of allowing the Scriptures to interpret your doctrine. You have not and cannot post Scripture where Jesus teaches that He would be in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights, you have to read into the Scripture your doctrine. Because the Scriptures clearly do not teach what you believe.

Matt 12:
40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

"in the heart of the earth" is the grave.

I am not saying that you are not saved, only the Lord can make that call. All I can do is show you what the Scriptures teach, cannot make you believe them.

You do not exegete the Scriptures, you eisegete the Scriptures.

 

[Johnny_B]

That is not what the Bible says. It does not say he will suffer all those things in the three days.


Matt 12:
40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

"in the heart of the earth" is the grave.

Matthew 20:17-19, Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:25-26 say exactly that.

"Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, 18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, 19 and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”

8:31 "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again."

Luke 24:25-26 this is Jesus speaking to the disciples. “Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”

Can you point out where those Scripture are teaching that Jesus would be in the Tomb 3 days and nights?

Also the writer of Hebrews writes and Chirst'd atoning work in 10:5-10 “So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You.6 As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek”;7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,”

Notice verse 7 is what Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane to show that verse 8 is about His atoning work. As I mention to Hizikyah I appreciate these discussions because I am finding more Scripture to support that Christ must suffer many things, while you guys are stuck on Matthew 12:40 and reading into the Scripture your doctrine, while not believing what the Scriptures plainly teach.

Hebrews 5 is for Hizikyah and his doctrine that Jesus takes the place of Aaron and his sons priethood, the Scriptures teach that Jesus is an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron or his sons. So what do people that keep the Sabbath do to fulfill the Sabbath offering to worship the Lord on the Sabbath. With no priesthood of Aaron and his sons or a Temple to offer the offering in.

Again I am not saying you guys are not brothers because that is not my call the Lord knows the heart, not me. You brothers do not exegete the Scriptures, you eisegete the Scriptures. Neither one of you have posted any Scripture that plainly teaches that Jesus would be in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights. I am almost positive that with more research I will find more Scripture about His suffering. May the Lord Bless you guys!

 

[shrume]

Matthew 20:17-19, Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:25-26 say exactly that.

"Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, 18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, 19 and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”

It's talking about the third day after he was crucified, not the third day since his arrest.

8:31 "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again."

Jesus said he would rise again three days after he was crucified, not three days after he began suffering (at his arrest).

Luke 24:25-26 this is Jesus speaking to the disciples. “Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”

That verse does not support your position that Jesus' suffering and the time he was in the tomb both occurred within three days and three nights.

Neither one of you have posted any Scripture that plainly teaches that Jesus would be in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights.!

Jesus himself said it:

Matt 12:
40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

There are many verses that describe Christ's suffering. But his sufferings occurred before he spent three days and three nights in the grave.

 

[Johnny_B]

There are many verses that describe Christ's suffering. But his sufferings occurred before he spent three days and three nights in the grave.

Can you proved the Scripture that teaches this?

I think you missed this Mark 9:9-12 “Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead. 10 So they kept this word to themselves, questioning what the rising from the dead meant.
11 And they asked Him, saying, “Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”

12 Then He answered and told them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things. And how is it written concerning the Son of Man, that He must suffer many things and be treated with contempt?”

If you eisegete this to say 3 days and nights in the Tomb, you need to remember the ninth commandment.

Matthew 16:21 "From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day."

Jesus is explaining what would happen when He went to Jerusalem, that He would suffer many things, then He explains by who He will suffer these many things, and that He would be killed, and that He would rise the third day after all these things happened to Him in Jerusalem. Again the simple reading of this Scripture teaches what I believe, there are no periods that seperate all that is mentioned before the third day, the commas and the "ands" are placing these things together, commas do not exclude the items spoken of, but as promised I found more Scripture that teaches Jesus would suffer.

Acts 1:3 “to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.”

Acts 3:18 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.”

Acts 17:3 “explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.”

Acts 26:22-23 “Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come—23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

No where do the Apostles teach that Jesus was in the Tomb for 3 days and nights, but they teach what Jesus taught them.

There you go again back to your circular reasoning your unbrakable chain, one Scripture Matthew 12:40 that says nothing about Jesus being in the Tomb for three days and nights, you have yet to post any Scripture where Jesus teaches that "in the heart of the earth" is the Tomb. Encase you did not know His glory is the resurrection.

So now I have posted Scriptures from the OT prophets Isaiah 53 which is the prophesy on Jesus' atoning work and it says nothing about three days in the Tomb, Jesus' teachings on what "heart of the earth" means, His suffering, by the Jewish leaders and the Gentiles, being mocked, spit on, flogged, treated with comtempt, be condemned to death, being crucified and to rise on the third day, striaght from the mouth of Jesus in the Gospels and you still can only post Matthew 12:40 but no Scripture where Jesus teaches that it means the Tomb. I posted Scripture from the epistles where they teach that Jesus would suffer and rise again and now I have posted four Scriptures from the book of Acts that teach that Jesus would suffer as told by the prophets and it is what the Apostles preached.

II Corinthians 13:1 “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” If every word shall be established by two or three witnesses, I have provided 4, the prophet, the Gospels by the word of the disciples, Jesus before and after His resurrection, the angel at the Tomb, the apostles in Acts and the writer of Hebrews, none of them ever said anything about Jesus being in the Tomb for the 3 days and nights. And all you have is Matthew 12:40, one verse and Jesus never said it again or did He teach 3 days and nights in the Tomb. There are more Scriptures where the apostles teach that Jesus suffered and rose from the dead.

 

[beta]

It's talking about the third day after he was crucified, not the third day since his arrest.


Jesus said he would rise again three days after he was crucified, not three days after he began suffering (at his arrest).


That verse does not support your position that Jesus' suffering and the time he was in the tomb both occurred within three days and three nights.


Jesus himself said it:

Matt 12:
40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

There are many verses that describe Christ's suffering. But his sufferings occurred before he spent three days and three nights in the grave.

You are indeed making the point...we are talking about the 'sign Yashua/Jesus personally gave to 'identify Himself as 'the One who would be resurrected Mat 12v40....and not any other resurrecting at some other time....the 3 nights and 3 days in the tomb would show us exactly who the true authentic Jesus is...and scripture shows the exact time from Wednesday sunset to Sabbath sunset ! so anyone claiming to be the Mesiah rising at another time ie sunday would be a FALSE jesus because he would not be able to fulfill the exact time as per scripture 1Cor 15v3,4....the false jesus shows he was in the tomb longer than predicted.
It's a matter of IDENTITY who is real and who is false....Yashua warned against 'deception ! let us stay with Mat 12v40 and the sabbath resurrection which fulfills scripture completely !!!
It is fitting that Jesus rose on His Fathers Holy day and not on a common work day of man.
This is not denying what He suffered...it just is not the issue here...it's Knowing the REAL Jesus/Yahshua ....and it's not the sunday one !!!

 

[Johnny_B]

You are indeed making the point...we are talking about the 'sign Yashua/Jesus personally gave to 'identify Himself as 'the One who would be resurrected Mat 12v40....and not any other resurrecting at some other time....the 3 nights and 3 days in the tomb would show us exactly who the true authentic Jesus is...and scripture shows the exact time from Wednesday sunset to Sabbath sunset ! so anyone claiming to be the Mesiah rising at another time ie sunday would be a FALSE jesus because he would not be able to fulfill the exact time as per scripture 1Cor 15v3,4....the false jesus shows he was in the tomb longer than predicted.
It's a matter of IDENTITY who is real and who is false....Yashua warned against 'deception ! let us stay with Mat 12v40 and the sabbath resurrection which fulfills scripture completely !!!
It is fitting that Jesus rose on His Fathers Holy day and not on a common work day of man.
This is not denying what He suffered...it just is not the issue here...it's Knowing the REAL Jesus/Yahshua ....and it's not the sunday one !!!

Sister I am guessing that all of the Sabbath resurrection believers and 3 days and nights in the Tomb are part of the same sect of Christianity. Remember I believed in the Wednesday crucifixion so that Jesus could be in the Tomb for the 72 hours of Jonah, after searching the Scriptures I have come to understand that that is not what He was teaching by reading all of His teaching about His atoning work.

I will say that you guys are totally commited to something that from what you guys have posted is based on one verse. When there is an over wheming number of Scriptures that show that "heart of the earth" does not mean the Tomb/grave, it seems as thou you are so indoctrinated that you will not even consider Scripture that teaches contrary to your beliefs, even when it is Jesus that is teaching it, it would be great if you guys were Bereans that examined the Scriptures to see if what is being said is so. But rather you are like those of Thessalonica that resisted the Scriptures, the most interesting part is that Paul was preaching that it was nessacary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead.

Acts 17:1-3 "Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

He was not preaching that the Christ that Paul preached was in the Tomb for 3 days and nights and the 4 evangelists that wrote the Gospels did not record that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, here are their accounts.

Matthew 28:1-6 “Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.4And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.6He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.”

Mark 16:1-6 “When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.2And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.3And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”4And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back—it was very large.5And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed. 6And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him.


Luke 24:1-3 “But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.2And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb,3but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. “


John 20:1 “Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”

If Christ had risen on the Sabbath why would not the Lord of the universe move the women to go to the Tomb after 6 P.M. while it was still light or in the dark with torches? You know that the Sabbath ends at 6 P.M. on what is the Sabbath day or Saturday on our calander. Because He was not rised on the Sabbath, the Lord God wanted to show that Jesus was raised on the first day of the week. Both Matthew and Mark made it plain that it was in the morning of the first day of the week and not the Sabbath which would of proved that Jesus rose on the Sabbath if the women would of been there right after 6 P.M.

Matthew "Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week" Mark "When the Sabbath was past,....2And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb", Luke "But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb", John "Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark"

Both Matthew and Mark made it plain that the Sabbath had past and as Luke and John did they made it plain that the women where there around the time of the sun rising, around 6 A.M. around 72 hours after Jesus was handed over to Pilate (John 18:28)to be mocked, flogged, treated with comtempt, rejected by the high preist. Which is very important that Jesus was to be inspected by the high priest because the passover lamb had to be inspected by the priest before it could offered to the Lord, but as Jesus taught He would be rejected and He kept His mouth shut to fullfil what Isaiah prophesied (53:7) He would do in His atoning work.

John 18:28 "Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the governor's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover."

Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.”

They handed Jesus over to the Gentiles as He taught and it was early morning or around 6 A.M. on Thursday morning, with Christ rising around 6 A.M. in the morning of the first day of the week, as recorded by the evangelist, the women were at the Tomb around 6 A.M. on the first day of the week. If Christ had risen on the Sabbath the Holy Spirit would not have moved them to make it plain that the Sabbath had past and that the women waited until 6 A.M. in the morning of the first day of the week. Thje sad part os you guys will hang to your one verse doctrine and refuse the teachings of Jesus in 16 Sriptures in the Gospels, 4 in the book of Acts and 9 in the epistles and not one where Jesus teaches that He would be in the Tomb for those 3 days. Sure you can read into it and say that "heart of the earth" means the Tomb or grave, but none of you have answered the question as to what grave means in Isaiah 53:9

"And they made his grave with the wickedand with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth."

If grave means the Tomb or being buried in the ground can you give the Scripture(s) that Jesus was in the Tomb or grave with the wicked?

Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.”

 

[Hizikyah]

Hebrews 5 is for Hizikyah and his doctrine that Jesus takes the place of Aaron and his sons priethood, the Scriptures teach that Jesus is an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron or his sons. So what do people that keep the Sabbath do to fulfill the Sabbath offering to worship the Lord on the Sabbath. With no priesthood of Aaron and his sons or a Temple to offer the offering in.
[/SIZE]

youre funny, you announce something I say and know as if I don't say or know it, yes Yahshua is High Priest after the order of the Messenger of Righteousness (malakzadiq), yet you add your own doctrine to it that is found nowhere is Scripture. Where was the Sabbath changed? Nowhere righteously in Scripture, you made that up.

but a false change was attempted in the minds of the people;


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Your highlights are in res, 1st day, may highlights are in blue, He was already gone when they arrived on the 1st day.

Matthew 28:1-6 “Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.4And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.6He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.”

I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.6He is not here, for he has risen

Mark 16:1-6 “When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.2And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.3And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”4And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back—it was very large.5And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed. 6And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him.

You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here

Luke 24:1-3 “But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.2And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb,3but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. “

they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus

John 20:1 “Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”

while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb

So in every account He was already risen when they showed up on the 1st day.

 

[Johnny_B]

youre funny, you announce something I say and know as if I don't say or know it, yes Yahshua is High Priest after the order of the Messenger of Righteousness (malakzadiq), yet you add your own doctrine to it that is found nowhere is Scripture. Where was the Sabbath changed? Nowhere righteously in Scripture, you made that up.

but a false change was attempted in the minds of the people;


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

You had the exact response of someone that is losing a disscussion by using ad hominem rsponse. You still have not answered my question. What commandment does one break by keeping the two great commandments? Love the Lord God with all your heerat, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength and the second is like the first, love your neighbor as yourself.

Please explain how one breaks the 10 commandments by keeping these two.

 

[Hizikyah]

You had the exact response of someone that is losing a disscussion by using ad hominem rsponse. You still have not answered my question. What commandment does one break by keeping the two great commandments? Love the Lord God with all your heerat, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength and the second is like the first, love your neighbor as yourself.

Please explain how one breaks the 10 commandments by keeping these two.

What? So show me where you have alreasy asked this question. You keep saying I said things I did not and it is "evidence" im wrong... If one keep the great 2 they keep them all, if one breaks any of the Laws/Commandments they have broken one of the great 2.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

 

[beta]

Sister I am guessing that all of the Sabbath resurrection believers and 3 days and nights in the Tomb are part of the same sect of Christianity. Remember I believed in the Wednesday crucifixion so that Jesus could be in the Tomb for the 72 hours of Jonah, after searching the Scriptures I have come to understand that that is not what He was teaching by reading all of His teaching about His atoning work.

I will say that you guys are totally commited to something that from what you guys have posted is based on one verse. When there is an over wheming number of Scriptures that show that "heart of the earth" does not mean the Tomb/grave, it seems as thou you are so indoctrinated that you will not even consider Scripture that teaches contrary to your beliefs, even when it is Jesus that is teaching it, it would be great if you guys were Bereans that examined the Scriptures to see if what is being said is so. But rather you are like those of Thessalonica that resisted the Scriptures, the most interesting part is that Paul was preaching that it was nessacary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead.

Acts 17:1-3 "Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

He was not preaching that the Christ that Paul preached was in the Tomb for 3 days and nights and the 4 evangelists that wrote the Gospels did not record that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, here are their accounts.

Matthew 28:1-6 “Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.4And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.6He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.”

Mark 16:1-6 “When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.2And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.3And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”4And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back—it was very large.5And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed. 6And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him.


Luke 24:1-3 “But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.2And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb,3but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. “


John 20:1 “Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”

If Christ had risen on the Sabbath why would not the Lord of the universe move the women to go to the Tomb after 6 P.M. while it was still light or in the dark with torches? You know that the Sabbath ends at 6 P.M. on what is the Sabbath day or Saturday on our calander. Because He was not rised on the Sabbath, the Lord God wanted to show that Jesus was raised on the first day of the week. Both Matthew and Mark made it plain that it was in the morning of the first day of the week and not the Sabbath which would of proved that Jesus rose on the Sabbath if the women would of been there right after 6 P.M.

Matthew "Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week" Mark "When the Sabbath was past,....2And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb", Luke "But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb", John "Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark"

Both Matthew and Mark made it plain that the Sabbath had past and as Luke and John did they made it plain that the women where there around the time of the sun rising, around 6 A.M. around 72 hours after Jesus was handed over to Pilate (John 18:28)to be mocked, flogged, treated with comtempt, rejected by the high preist. Which is very important that Jesus was to be inspected by the high priest because the passover lamb had to be inspected by the priest before it could offered to the Lord, but as Jesus taught He would be rejected and He kept His mouth shut to fullfil what Isaiah prophesied (53:7) He would do in His atoning work.

John 18:28 "Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the governor's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover."

Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.”

They handed Jesus over to the Gentiles as He taught and it was early morning or around 6 A.M. on Thursday morning, with Christ rising around 6 A.M. in the morning of the first day of the week, as recorded by the evangelist, the women were at the Tomb around 6 A.M. on the first day of the week. If Christ had risen on the Sabbath the Holy Spirit would not have moved them to make it plain that the Sabbath had past and that the women waited until 6 A.M. in the morning of the first day of the week. Thje sad part os you guys will hang to your one verse doctrine and refuse the teachings of Jesus in 16 Sriptures in the Gospels, 4 in the book of Acts and 9 in the epistles and not one where Jesus teaches that He would be in the Tomb for those 3 days. Sure you can read into it and say that "heart of the earth" means the Tomb or grave, but none of you have answered the question as to what grave means in Isaiah 53:9

"And they made his grave with the wickedand with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth."

If grave means the Tomb or being buried in the ground can you give the Scripture(s) that Jesus was in the Tomb or grave with the wicked?

Isaiah 53:7 “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.”

JESUS' suffering is not given as the 'identifying sign' that HE was the authentic Jesus'.
Yahshua HIMSELF gave Mat 12v40 to proof that His time in the heart of the earth (rock) makes HIM the 'legitimate/authentic/real and true Jesus....NOT the one peddled by Rome in a sunday resurrection...because that one 'went OVER time thus breaking scripture.
It's easy to verify if you check scripture....buried before sunset on preparation day and rose before sunset 3 days later = exact timing while the sunday jesus was not. THAT is the point Mat 12v40 is making to show which Jesus is false and which is True !!! It's not His suffering that gives us this clarification !

 

[beta]

You had the exact response of someone that is losing a disscussion by using ad hominem rsponse. You still have not answered my question. What commandment does one break by keeping the two great commandments? Love the Lord God with all your heerat, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength and the second is like the first, love your neighbor as yourself.

Please explain how one breaks the 10 commandments by keeping these two.

because without the DETAIL you would not KNOW HOW to LOVE God or neighbour according to HIS Word !!!...you would use your OWN imagination ...you call that SUBmitting to God !?!

 

[Hizikyah]

because without the DETAIL you would not KNOW HOW to LOVE God or neighbour according to HIS Word !!!...you would use your OWN imagination ...you call that SUBmitting to God !?!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Judges 17:6, "In those days there was no sovereign in Yisra’ĕl – everyone did what was right in his own eyes”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:13-14, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it.[/FONT]