when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[posthuman]

Is it just me or are other offended when with the label OSAS?
Yes I have reluctantly used it. I will not in the future.
Each time that label is put on a person it is followed with attacks and efforts to discredit that person.
Not going to complain, just stating an opinion.

i do not use the term. i think it is poorly phrased -- typically by 'once saved' the implication is that someone made an emotional decision at a carefully orchestrated altar call at one time in their life, and repeated some kind of magic-words-sinners-prayer or raised their hand because they were convicted by a compelling speech. that kind of thing is suspect. people can be easily manipulated into taking actions or making statements. this is not salvation; this is akin to voting for a secular political party. propaganda can make you go to the ballot but it cannot fundamentally change who you are as a person.

that is not what i call salvation. salvation is a supernatural work of God that literally changes a person's heart and thinking. i was transformed by God into an entirely different mindset and worldview. this does not describe what people who use the term 'OSAS' usually mean by it.

'eternal security' is better -- but i think it really needs to be implicit that we are not talking about someone only making a mental choice here, or agreeing with some kind of theology that was persuasively laid out to them in an emotionally-biased setting. we are talking about the Creator of the universe literally reaching into a person's soul and illuminating them, changing them into a new creation. when that happens, there is no turning back. even if i were to relapse or backslide or whatever, i know Whom i have believed, and i know He has bought me, that He owns me, that He will not discard me but mold me, through chastisement if He must, even through the complete destruction of my flesh if i am so obstinate -- but He is never giving up. He will not lose me -- He is the Good Shepherd not the worthless one. i am the worhtless sheep that He found value in, the whole field in which He perceives a pearl.

there is no doubt.
God is faithful -- i will live forever, because He has loved me
anyone who does not believe this?
look again in 10 million years. i will persist, because Christ is faithful.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 9:30-32 and 11:5-6

i love you purple big-sister ♥♥♥

 

[RichMan]

i do not use the term. i think it is poorly phrased -- typically by 'once saved' the implication is that someone made an emotional decision at a carefully orchestrated altar call at one time in their life, and repeated some kind of magic-words-sinners-prayer or raised their hand because they were convicted by a compelling speech. that kind of thing is suspect. people can be easily manipulated into taking actions or making statements. this is not salvation; this is akin to voting for a secular political party. propaganda can make you go to the ballot but it cannot fundamentally change who you are as a person.

that is not what i call salvation. salvation is a supernatural work of God that literally changes a person's heart and thinking. i was transformed by God into an entirely different mindset and worldview. this does not describe what people who use the term 'OSAS' usually mean by it.

'eternal security' is better -- but i think it really needs to be implicit that we are not talking about someone only making a mental choice here, or agreeing with some kind of theology that was persuasively laid out to them in an emotionally-biased setting. we are talking about the Creator of the universe literally reaching into a person's soul and illuminating them, changing them into a new creation. when that happens, there is no turning back. even if i were to relapse or backslide or whatever, i know Whom i have believed, and i know He has bought me, that He owns me, that He will not discard me but mold me, through chastisement if He must, even through the complete destruction of my flesh if i am so obstinate -- but He is never giving up. He will not lose me -- He is the Good Shepherd not the worthless one. i am the worhtless sheep that He found value in, the whole field in which He perceives a pearl.

there is no doubt.
God is faithful -- i will live forever, because He has loved me
anyone who does not believe this?
look again in 10 million years. i will persist, because Christ is faithful.

Brother, I wish I could express myself as well as you do. It is a gift.

 

[Phoneman-777]

do you realize that you are defeating your own arguments every time you cite scripture?

​

This is the commandment, that, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.​

(2 John 1:6)​

​

This is My commandment, that you love ((AGAPAÓ)) one another as I have loved ((AGAPAÓ)) you.​

(John 15:12) ​

"Agape" is a "feast of love" compared to the intensity of "agapeo" which is merely a potted meat sandwich, so please stop with this false equivalence mess, OK?

No serious Christian will ever agree with you that the wicked can partake of God's "agape" love while lost.

 

[posthuman]

"agapeo" which is merely a potted meat sandwich

so in your opinion Christ commanded potted meat sandwiches?

interesting.

 

[Magenta]

i love you purple big-sister ♥♥♥

Thank you Mr. Post I ♥♥♥ you, too

 

[Gideon300]

Spoken as someone who embraces osmosis as a means of learning and argument. Show me your wonderful spirit teaching through the internet. What I can tell, it is something not worth knowing. Political correctness and judgement of language skills.

Like I said, if this is about the Scriptures, you should have paraphrased it properly. Your quote, use the Scriptures to write it out. Right now, your spiritual osmosis says "world" to me, so no pearls for you as they say.

My mistake. I assumed that you knew something about God's word.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16

".......But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. “For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

 

[Phoneman-777]

so in your opinion Christ commanded potted meat sandwiches?

interesting.

Even potted meat is better than nothing.

In your opinion, devil worshipers, mass murderers, and homicidal rapists can partake of "agape"?

 

[Stumbling]

 

[de-emerald]

1. i don't know what you mean 'agenda' - what agenda? steadfast belief in the faithfulness of God to keep His promises to save us? bro that's the gospel. if you call that agenda, great: i have that agenda. we all should.
2. i have never heard the security of the believer preached promoting sin. i have only heard others accuse us of promoting sin. as i wrote to you earlier, i also read that Paul was similarly falsely accused of promoting sin because the gospel he preached made the ignorant think he was. something about the true gospel makes people think we are saying you can and/or maybe even should go around sinning as much as you want. why does the true, actual gospel sound like that? because it sets us free!!!
3. this only causes division because many people believe and are taught & teach that they are saved by their own works, will & effort. but Christ came to bring division, not peace: that the truth may be known, and those who reject it may be known. division is not inherently bad. division is the necessary result when some are false teachers and some are trustworthy. they have to be divided because there is only one truth.
4. no idea what you're trying to say. we are appealing to the faithfulness & power of God, not to people's 'nature' -- people have evil nature, every single one of us, myself included. that is only changed by a supernatural work of God, so that if anyone has a righteous nature you know it is not them but God working in & through them.

I thinks it's probably fair to say that many people who get involved in discussions about OSAS end up getting involved in a debate, would you agree on that much,? Would you also agree that some people who get involved with debates about there eternal security end up harbouring grudges for reasons being it means so much to them,. Now would you also agree that to preach OSAS it really must be done by sombody who is a highly skilled minister who who can overcome there eternal security being questioned when being told what they must not do to receive salvation and what they must not do, to think they can get it, for the simple reason eternally security is a matter for God with the individual and a private walk, with the individual,

Would you agree that when it comes to deciding salvation it is a really the Job of God, and a highly trained minister would know that and be very kind in just praying for the person to receive God, and help the individual with his or her concerns about there salvation, with a prayer. Like Jesus Christ our light and saviour please receive brother postman today, and help him to overcome any hurt that may building up over his eternal security, or other people's eternal security. Amen

Do you ever see debates about salvation in church,. And is Christian chat a church.

Do you ever see people coming in to church with peace in there heart and leaving with a grudge about salvation the most precious gift of them all, a precious gift so precious holy and lovely, and heavenly kind and embracing.

We see the warm embrace in gladness in peoples heart in church, when people talk about there lord and saviour of how Jesus can save you. A lovely honour to to uphold and talk about, How Jesus can love you no matter who you are,

 

[de-emerald]

Even potted meat is better than nothing.

In your opinion, devil worshipers, mass murderers, and homicidal rapists can partake of "agape"?

I don't think it's a good idea to ask brother post human to decide another persons salvation, so I think you should retract your question.

 

[de-emerald]

When I read the bible, and I come to a verse that seems a bit "off"- 100% of the time it's my understanding of the verse that is off, and not the verse itself. The scriptures are trustworthy, they're just difficult to understand sometimes. Even if Paul was struggling with something, he would not have allowed some demon inspired thought to make it's way into an epistle- And remember- Paul didn't handwrite most of his letters... So, even if he had said something that sounded crazy to his scribes, surely they would have known something was wrong.

When Paul is talking about vessels of honor and dishonor, the fact that he is using a pottery analogy should tell us something. If you are making pottery, you might make some cups that you want to be for special occasions- you might make those nicer than cups the cups that you want to be used on a day to day basis. That is the difference between "honor" and "dishonor". Unless you are some crazy mythbuster, or doing some weird experiment- you would never make a piece of pottery with the intent that it explodes when you put it in the oven. That's crazy!

We have in Romans, the idea that God is our potter, and he can make the clay into whatever he wants- but in 2Tim, we see that we have some inputs to the Lord that affect what kind of vessel he makes us into-
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness... If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
All of our vessels are destined for the oven, but we are only destined for destruction in the oven if we resist his work on us while we are still soft clay.

you make some very interesting points, I have thought quite a bit about what you've said and it does need more study, to which I will try to give a more in depth answer soon.

I don't want to go to the place as believing the Bible as a lie but rather understand it as the Bible revealing lies, perhaps with some lack of interpretation or missing writing of those many lies about how evil lies and tempts, if Paul did have scribes writing all his writings, did some of Paul's unfinished writing perhaps get found unfinished and not spotted, that's my concern, and I believe this is a good reason why must examine his scriptures to see if they are true of the spirit, or to see if they line up with, Jesus. We need to follow the holy spirit to identify lies, even tho that Paul was of the spirit you know your self, that sometimes our flesh gets in the way when writing thoughts down on paper. This is why I'm taking time to answer your verry good point, in the hope we don't cause any un-belief or suspicion.

I really do understand your interpretation of predestionation as also, but I think the word predestionation has perhaps been miss used in scripture or miss interpretated, because it goes against the direct words of the spirit, that one must confess that Jesus is lord and God befor being saved,

Is there also missing interpretation of his torment from his thorn in his side, ? Or is a lot of his writing a result of his thorn in his side ?

 

[RichMan]

I thinks it's probably fair to say that many people who get involved in discussions about OSAS end up getting involved in a debate, would you agree on that much,? Would you also agree that some people who get involved with debates about there eternal security end up harbouring grudges for reasons being it means so much to them,. Now would you also agree that to preach OSAS it really must be done by sombody who is a highly skilled minister who who can overcome there eternal security being questioned when being told what they must not do to receive salvation and what they must not do, to think they can get it, for the simple reason eternally security is a matter for God with the individual and a private walk, with the individual,

Would you agree that when it comes to deciding salvation it is a really the Job of God, and a highly trained minister would know that and be very kind in just praying for the person to receive God, and help the individual with his or her concerns about there salvation, with a prayer. Like Jesus Christ our light and saviour please receive brother postman today, and help him to overcome any hurt that may building up over his eternal security, or other people's eternal security. Amen

Do you ever see debates about salvation in church,. And is Christian chat a church.

Do you ever see people coming in to church with peace in there heart and leaving with a grudge about salvation the most precious gift of them all, a precious gift so precious holy and lovely, and heavenly kind and embracing.

We see the warm embrace in gladness in peoples heart in church, when people talk about there lord and saviour of how Jesus can save you. A lovely honour to to uphold and talk about, How Jesus can love you no matter who you are,

When a person come on a forum and states that the Biblical teaching that salvation can not be lost (eternal security of the believer) should be banned because it is a lie, do not expect to not be challenged. Do not expect to make such statements and not stir up anger and debate.
Do not expect such heresy to be allow without a fight.

 

[Dino246]

I thinks it's probably fair to say that many people who get involved in discussions about OSAS end up getting involved in a debate, would you agree on that much,? Would you also agree that some people who get involved with debates about there eternal security end up harbouring grudges for reasons being it means so much to them,.

Says the guy who started this debate, and who has demonstrated clearly that he holds grudges.

smh...

 

[de-emerald]

Just because you are eternally saved doesn't mean you don't need to be perfected before you come before God. These are two unrelated things.

You are gifted with eternal salvation. Doesn't matter if you come early in the morning or the last minute of the day, FAITH and Belief will allow you to receive that gift EXACT SAME AS EVERY OTHER SOUL WHO HAS EVER BEEN SAVED. YOU AND I receive the exact same gift as ABRAHAM, MOSES, JOHN THE BAPTIST, PETER, PAUL. That indeed is the gift.

but THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT KIND OF VESSEL YOU WILL BE DURING THAT ETERNAL LIFE.

WHAT WILL THAT 'SEED' become? WHEAT or perhaps some other grain. A vessel of honor, or a vessel of dishonor. Gold, silver, brass, maybe just wood....

Those are works. That WE CHOOSE.

THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. SAME EXACT GIFT OF SALVATION AS JOHN THE BAPTIST. One believed for a second the other a life time


AND THAT SEEMS TO BE EVERYONES CONCERN. BUT THEY FALL SHORT in that they don't understand the difference between the OLD and NEW COVENANTS and what did change and what didn't.

BUT even when it comes to salvation, it's like they don't even get that reward in this life. They live their lives waiting for death.



John the Baptist is arriving WELL DRESSED. John the Baptist had many wonderful works. Faith. Saved souls to his credit. Suffered for our Lord, was persecuted didn't care. He had a job and he did it.

Vessel of honor made of Gold

Thief on cross is arriving NAKED. Thief had no works. Thief came to FAITH and thief CONFESSED in front of the world who Christ was. GOOD WORK THERE. Still, nothing else is being brought with him. He didn't put anything into his eternal retirement account

Vessel of ? made of ?.


The difference between teaching what is written vs hath God said.

One makes God happy the other makes man happy

One is Gods Truth the other is mans doctrine

One brings rewards the other brings punishment


One of the things God hates most is HIS WORDS not being taught HIS WAY.


So back to why the eternally saved be tested.

GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE. What GOD consumes are the parts of us that have not been perfected.

Wouldn't you rather learn your lessons NOW rather than IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE WORLD on Judgment day?

Remember Dad taught you to look both ways before crossing the street SO you didn't go splat.

SAME EXACT THING going on with God and us. He is TEACHING US DISCIPLINE SO THAT when judgment day all there is for us is rewards. Any part that would have gone up in flames was fixed before we got there.

PROVING. even Jesus was 'perfected' though what He suffered. GOD ISN'T EVEN making us do something HE didn't do Himself.

ETERNAL LIFE is a really long time. Would you want to give that to someone who turned out to be a liar? No, you would want everyone who was there to be deserving of being there. I myself really like the idea. I don't want people around who don't love God nor their brethren. I want people there who BELIEVE it is the best thing in the world and we are LUCKY to be offered such a thing.

I look forward to hearing from you

Thankyou I'm just re reading the entire thread and I missed your post here, sorry for not replying soon, in the scripture the holy Bible teaches that the holy spirit will teach you all things,

Jesus Christ teaches come to me all ye who are heavy and laden my yoke is light, and come to me as children,

For me personally I see both scriptures to mean I will teach you all things with love, I don't see a teaching that's says I will teach you then test you, and if ye shall fail your banished or i don't see a teaching there in Jesus I will send a messenger of satan to keep you in check along the way.

I see i will teach you in the hope you don't stumble, but if you should I will be there to rescue you, should you fall

I see teaching of ye should forgive a brother 77 times as ye could make the same mistake 77 times.

I see teaching all over the Bible of how evil can make you stumble, but Jesus still rescuing those who do, so I do believe in OSAS that way,

So please dont get me wrong.
I see Jesus and the scripture that's goes that extra mile to rescue his lost sheep who have wondered astray, and these teaching of eternal salvation do fall under OSAS, and not man made tradition,

If OSAS was preached like this I would not have any issues, but it's not always and that was my issue.

However it's not something I want to fall out with over with other people when it is preached with issues I can't agree with. As eternal salvation should be remembered as a precious gift not a grudge match. Or who has better in sight, all these issues. Which quite often the the subject of eternal security becomes a grudge match, and what happens when a Christian harbours a grudge, well Jesus has to go that extra mile to re-find him.

Anyhow I look forward to your reply.

 

[RichMan]

Thankyou I'm just re reading the entire thread and I missed your post here, sorry for not replying soon, in the scripture the holy Bible teaches that the holy spirit will teach you all things,

Jesus Christ teaches come to me all ye who are heavy and laden my yoke is light, and come to me as children,

For me personally I see both scriptures to mean I will teach you all things with love, I don't see a teaching that's says I will teach you then test you, and if ye shall fail your banished or i don't see a teaching there in Jesus I will send a messenger of satan to keep you in check along the way.

I see i will teach you in the hope you don't stumble, but if you should I will be there to rescue you, should you fall

I see teaching of ye should forgive a brother 77 times as ye could make the same mistake 77 times.

I see teaching all over the Bible of how evil can make you stumble, but Jesus still rescuing those who do, so I do believe in OSAS that way,

So please dont get me wrong.
I see Jesus and the scripture that's goes that extra mile to rescue his lost sheep who have wondered astray, and these teaching of eternal salvation do fall under OSAS, and not man made tradition,

If OSAS was preached like this I would not have any issues, but it's not always and that was my issue.

However it's not something I want to fall out with over with other people when it is preached with issues I can't agree with. As eternal salvation should be remembered as a precious gift not a grudge match. Or who has better in sight, all these issues. Which quite often the the subject of eternal security becomes a grudge match, and what happens when a Christian harbours a grudge, well Jesus has to go that extra mile to re-find him.

Anyhow I look forward to your reply.

You continue to make charges about people teaching in a way you see as wrong but have never given us names.
If you cannot give names, how are we to believe you when you have a history of making false statements?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yep, Matthew 24:12-13 KJV proves that.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Bottom line: if you’re teaching the Saint can’t choose to walk away and be lost, you’re not teaching the Bible.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Bottom line: if you’re teaching the Saint can’t choose to walk away and be lost, you’re not teaching the Bible.

Why would the saint choose to walk away? Even the pretender Simon the Sorcerer wanted Peter to pray for him to be spared God's wrath. Any genuine saint will hold fast to Christ and His salvation. But pretenders may not do so. Christians under Rome were willing to die rather than "walk away". So this whole theory is hypothetical and Christians should be focused on Christ, not walking away from Him.

Nobody can lose their salvation since it involves (a) the New Birth, (b) the gift of eternal life, (c) the gift of the Holy Spirit, (d) the gift of Christ Himself within, and (e) being "kept by the power of God". This is no ordinary matter, since Christ is involved at every point.

At the same time, God has ways and means of dealing with His disobedient children. And therefore He tells Christians to examine themselves. But the chastisement of believers is not the same as the damnation of unbelievers. Therefore it is Satan who is behind the false doctrine of loss of salvation. He would love to see everyone in the Hell created for him and his evil angels.

 

[rogerg]

In your opinion, devil worshipers, mass murderers, and homicidal rapists can partake of "agape"?

Saul/Paul?

[Act 22:3-4 KJV]
3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

[Act 22:8 KJV] 8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

[1Ti 1:12-13
KJV] 12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.