when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[rogerg]

Not if they withdraw their repentance, like those Peter says had "escaped" but "became entangled again" or that Paul said "fall away" after they'd repented.

Those who become "entangled again" had never become saved in the first place. Look further down to Heb. 6:9

[Heb 6:9 KJV]
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Repentance is a by-product of becoming saved/born-again, not the reverse. The question is: what do they repent of?
Answer: from their works for salvation, unto trusting from the heart, Christ and the completeness of His offering.
That repentance is also as a gift of God. Christ alone is Saviour: everything starts and ends with Him

 

[rogerg]

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The work of God, not man. Makes sense if we use it in context with Paul's teaching from Jesus. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

You are absolutely correct, and a great cross-reference-- one that I hadn't previously considered! Thank you.

 

[wintersrain]

Those who become "entangled again" had never become saved in the first place. Look further down to Heb. 6:9

[Heb 6:9 KJV]
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Repentance is a by-product of becoming saved/born-again, not the reverse. The question is: what do they repent of?
Answer: from their works for salvation, unto trusting from the heart, Christ and the completeness of His offering.
That repentance is also as a gift of God. Christ alone is Saviour: everything starts and ends with Him

Well said.
Those who are truly of God, have received his call, his free gift of faith and salvation, have received his irrevocable gift, as God said. Such is the promise of Eternal Salvation.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion;
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.i 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Did you read John 6:29? It tells us that it is a work to believe. Your example doesn't address choosing.

"Faith comes by hearing", Romans 10:17. No amount of work can change a person's fundamental belief system. You can drag a Holocaust denier by the ear into a Auschwitz museum and they'll still insist that it's all propaganda props.

 

[Dino246]

Is a husband truly "sorry" for adultery if he habitually does it, and can a wife forgive him if he's not truly sorry?

A Christian wife who understands biblical forgiveness will be able to forgive her husband, whether he is sorry or not.

 

[wintersrain]

A Christian wife who understands biblical forgiveness will be able to forgive her husband, whether he is sorry or not.

I would submit there is no corollary to what the phoneman is trying to impart in comparing God's forgiveness of our sins to that of a mortal and the act of sinful adultery against their spouse.
God's forgiveness is by his grace that bestows faith and eternal irrevocable salvation upon whom he chooses. Not of ourselves so that we cannot boast we chose Salvation.

 

[Gardenias]

Mark 11:26
But if ye DO NOT FORGIVE neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Mt 18:35; Luke 6:37;2 Cor.2;7

We are to forgive even if there is no repentance from someone who hurts us. We at one time were unforgiven and unworthy of forgiveness but God's great mercy and love looked past our unrighteousness and redeemed us from bondage and placed upon us HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A Christian wife who understands biblical forgiveness will be able to forgive her husband, whether he is sorry or not.

There's deadly consequnces nonetheless, for adultery is the only legitimate justification for divorce in Jesus's teaching of marriage. And even if the wife forgives him, his mistress probably won't.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Playing telephone with the Bible
Bible understanding, airline steward who is heard, teacher paraphrasing what was heard

Bible: Salvation is a Gift from God.
Steward: Ensure the seat belts are fastened, etc,,,. The emergency exits are .... Listen to the instructions of the flight attendant. Have a nice flight.
Teacher:Remember children we are on a flight courtesy of the airline. So let us not embarrass our benefactor. On your best behaviour. Remember the seat belts and don't wander everywhere. Always pay attention and listen to the steward, and in the event of a crash where everyone is screaming, don't forget the exits, just in case. Have fun, just follow the rules.

Bible: Salvation is by faith only
Steward: Listen to the instructions of the flight attendant. Have a nice flight.
Teacher:Yes, we were lucky to get those last few tickets. Don't get too greedy with steward's bell. Anyways, listen to the steward, he might have something important to say. Have fun - er - no alcohol, fighting, defecating in the aisles....

Bible: OSAS
Steward: Have a nice flight.
Teacher: Vacation ville here we come, fun underneath the sun! Party hearty!!!! So children behave... No Michael, I wish everyone was as well behaved as you...Lucy from Venus put that weapon down now or else!!!

 

[Chester]

Maybe I don't understand your point exactly, Chester, but it seems to me that your second paragraph fundamentally and dramatically contradicts your first - and both can't be true. How can someone receive eternal life, and yet, not have it eternally? Anyway, the point should not be what "OSAS teaches", all that matters is what the Gospel teaches -- and as you said, the believer's sin is forgiven -- but not through or by anything they may have done -- but by the blood of the Lamb -- and by that do we know the heart of the Gospel.
Regarding your point regarding the believer's moral capabilities, there is a lot more that can be said about that, but I'll defer for the time being.

Eternal life is first and primarily not about "being in heaven forever" or about "living forever" - but as John writes in 17:5 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. " The essence and core of eternal LIFE is knowing Jesus who is life. The person who does not believe in Jesus and does not know Him cannot be said to have "eternal life".

What does Scripture say rather than what OSAS teaches? Amen. Let's do it . . .

Do you agree that Scripture teaches (1) that the one believing in Jesus Christ has eternal life.
(2) the one not believing in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life.
(John 3:36 plus other NT references . . .)

 

[rogerg]

Do you agree that Scripture teaches (1) that the one believing in Jesus Christ has eternal life.
(2) the one not believing in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life.
(John 3:36 plus other NT references . . .)

I would state it in the reverse: those who have been given eternal life, believe; those who have not
been given eternal life, believe not. Belief/faith is a fruit of the Spirit as a result of becoming born-again - God's work, not ours.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I'm not really a fan of using the word "saved" ...because it is SOOO vague if not clarified thoroughly. If someone has been saved it technically only means they have been delivered from something. It doesn't necessarily imply religious conversion or any specific level of permanence. Someone can be "saved" from a house fire. Did they "get saved" from that housefire? YEP. Does their "being saved" mean they're automatically going to heaven because they "got saved"? We know it doesn't work like that but those were all legitimate usages of "saved".

Saved also has many biblical applications and they do NOT all reference "eternal life". So I would disagree with your statement.

But I did get a good chuckle on your post #9.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Jesus saved mankind from the PENALTY of sin, but the POWER and PRESENCE of sin are still there. His job was finished, but ours is not. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin, helps us overcome the power of sin, and eventually sets us free from sin, with no more pleasure in sin and no more practice of sin.

 

[peldom10]

OSAS is one of those ingrained traditions that will never get uprooted; it's too much a part of Americanity. You just have to accept it.

That is so wrong.
Show me teaching reference or mention of OSAS prior to the 1960's?
Nothing against God is so ingrained that it must be acceptable.

 

[peldom10]

I would state it in the reverse: those who have been given eternal life, believe; those who have not
been given eternal life, believe not. Belief/faith is a fruit of the Spirit as a result of becoming born-again - God's work, not ours.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

If one has been given eternal life....they are dead and have entered the spiritual life. Reminder....it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement....
Get the point?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

it's looking that way. But What I can't figure out why does once saved always also preach God needs to tempt you or test you , if your saved.

GOD doesn't temp you but the world will test you and once a person has been saved they will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 John 3:3
King James Version
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure
+++
Once GOD makes the Spirit perfect that person will try to renew his/her mind/body to match the perfect Spirit GOD has created In them.

 

[rogerg]

If one has been given eternal life....they are dead and have entered the spiritual life. Reminder....it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement....
Get the point?

Yes, I get the point, do you? Yes, those given spiritual life were dead - dead spiritually, but through Christ given eternal spiritual life.
Spiritually, they will/can never again die. What do you think it means to be born-again? Certainly not in the physical realm because they are/were already physically alive, but instead, in the spiritual realm.

 

[Chester]

I would state it in the reverse: those who have been given eternal life, believe; those who have not
been given eternal life, believe not. Belief/faith is a fruit of the Spirit as a result of becoming born-again - God's work, not ours.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

So from that view the conclusion is that once a person has been given eternal life, then they will continue to believe? Is this your view?

If yes, then what do you believe about freedom of choice for the Christian? Can the believer decide that he will no longer believe, or is he forced by God to remain a believer?

(Unfortunately I will not be able to answer till at least Sunday, as I will be out of town . . . )

 

[rogerg]

So from that view the conclusion is that once a person has been given eternal life, then they will continue to believe? Is this your view?

If yes, then what do you believe about freedom of choice for the Christian? Can the believer decide that he will no longer believe, or is he forced by God to remain a believer?

(Unfortunately I will not be able to answer till at least Sunday, as I will be out of town . . . )

Yes, they will continue to believe, and over time, that belief will increase .... but that is not what saves - it was Christ's faith(fulness) to the Father that brings about our salvation. His faith is reckoned to certain people, through which, is their faith manifested unto them

Upon becoming born-again, the believer is given a renewed mind. Having a renewed mind, they would never, ever, consider or desire to return to un-belief. Why? Because in their heart of hearts and soul of souls, they know the truth. After all, are you able no matter how hard you might try, to make yourself believe something that you just truly don't believe? When saved, our understanding changes, with the old one never to return. Now, in the Bible we are told that there are those who do fall away, but they are never of those who were saved/born again: it wasn't a spiritual change.

So, to get to the essence of it all -- in all ways Christ alone is the Saviour and we are not.

[Rom 12:2 KJV]
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

[Phl 2:12-13 KJV]
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

No problem regarding the timing of your response - do so whenever convenient for you. Have a safe trip.

 

[wintersrain]

There's deadly consequnces nonetheless, for adultery is the only legitimate justification for divorce in Jesus's teaching of marriage. And even if the wife forgives him, his mistress probably won't.

His mistress needs repentance.

 

[wintersrain]

So from that view the conclusion is that once a person has been given eternal life, then they will continue to believe? Is this your view?

If yes, then what do you believe about freedom of choice for the Christian? Can the believer decide that he will no longer believe, or is he forced by God to remain a believer?

(Unfortunately I will not be able to answer till at least Sunday, as I will be out of town . . . )

Even if they fall out of faith, those who are reborn in Christ, and for a time they are still saved.
Because God calls us to himself. As Jesus told us, we did not choose him, he chooses us. And being God is all knowing, and eternal, he would also see the rocky road ahead and those who lose faith in him.
God's seal is on the believer for eternity. He knew us before the womb. He won't abandon us when we think we've abandoned faith in him. There is nothing we can do or say that God has not foreseen. And yet, he loves us enough to call us to himself knowing all of who we are and shall become.

Jesus parable of the two sons is key there I think. https://www.biblejournal.net/2022/02/28/the-lost-son-vs-the-entitled-son/