when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.
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Let's get something straight: we're either "with" Jesus or "against" Him.
THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL SWITZERLAND.
The text plainly says they "escaped" the pollution of the world, and the difference between "escaped" and "entangled" is a stark as "pregnant" and "not pregnant". They were escaped, grace-saved, born again Christians who kicked Jesus off their heart throne to make room for themselves and will go to hell.
THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL SWITZERLAND.
The text plainly says they "escaped" the pollution of the world, and the difference between "escaped" and "entangled" is a stark as "pregnant" and "not pregnant". They were escaped, grace-saved, born again Christians who kicked Jesus off their heart throne to make room for themselves and will go to hell.
Hebrews 4:9 would beg to differ. It plainly says "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath..."
Are we going to ignore that "rest" is the Greek "kataposis" from Hebrews 3:11 to Hebrews 4:11 except verse 9 where it is "Sabbatismos"? I guess when it comes to inspiration, God took the day off when Paul got to this passage, right?
Are we going to ignore that "rest" is the Greek "kataposis" from Hebrews 3:11 to Hebrews 4:11 except verse 9 where it is "Sabbatismos"? I guess when it comes to inspiration, God took the day off when Paul got to this passage, right?
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Yes, Jesus spoke of these "better things" mentioned by Paul here: "..the love of many shall wax cold, but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:12 KJV
Let's not twist "better things" into meaning "saved" so that we can make the escaped "lost", OK? It's referring to the steadfast, unceasing faith versus faith that fails to endure to the end.
Let's not twist "better things" into meaning "saved" so that we can make the escaped "lost", OK? It's referring to the steadfast, unceasing faith versus faith that fails to endure to the end.
I’m not necessarily pro-OSAS but reframing those people as perverse people looking for a license to sin is called demonizing the opposition. It means that rather than defeating someone you disagree with with ideas and facts, you attempt to destroy their character in the eyes of other people. If you can at least make them look evil then maybe you’ve scored a few points. We see this a bit too much around the board.
What I will leave you with is this nugget:
No one needs a license to sin because everyone is sinning just fine without a license.
Isn’t that the truth though?
What I will leave you with is this nugget:
No one needs a license to sin because everyone is sinning just fine without a license.
Isn’t that the truth though?
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sorry to see you go! I was beginning to wonder why I hadn’t seen you post much. This board is mostly just for sport any way. There are no serious studies or serious fellowship here. Just a bunch of debates and discussions. Take a break and try to reach some lost folk who want to be saved and are reachable. It’s refreshing and I think it’s necessary at times.
[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Wait... are you trying to say the verse doesn't mean they were saved? It clearly states that those Paul addressed were saved, and that there were things given directly to them of God as a by-product, and accompanying salvation. There is no other way to reasonably interpret or understand that verse.
Wait... are you trying to say the verse doesn't mean they were saved? It clearly states that those Paul addressed were saved, and that there were things given directly to them of God as a by-product, and accompanying salvation. There is no other way to reasonably interpret or understand that verse.
No, they weren't -- they were never of the saved:
[Mar 4:15-19 KJV]
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
[Mar 4:15-19 KJV]
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
".".faith without works is dead"....?"
Just to explore your logic a little deeper, isn't it your understanding (but not mine) that a person is saved by/through their own faith? If so and if their faith is a "dead" faith by lacking works, it would be unable to bring salvation. So, if works are a prerequisite to alive faith, which alive faith is a prerequisite for salvation, then we must know precisely how to achieve those works in their numbers, to satisfy the standard of faith, by which we will be judged. Therefore, I suggest it is incumbent upon you to provide for our edification those criteria. If you are unable to, it may just be that you're working under an incorrect assumption as to the correct meaning of that biblical phrase ("faith without works is dead").
Just to explore your logic a little deeper, isn't it your understanding (but not mine) that a person is saved by/through their own faith? If so and if their faith is a "dead" faith by lacking works, it would be unable to bring salvation. So, if works are a prerequisite to alive faith, which alive faith is a prerequisite for salvation, then we must know precisely how to achieve those works in their numbers, to satisfy the standard of faith, by which we will be judged. Therefore, I suggest it is incumbent upon you to provide for our edification those criteria. If you are unable to, it may just be that you're working under an incorrect assumption as to the correct meaning of that biblical phrase ("faith without works is dead").
If the eternal security of the believer is getting banned, you might as well ban Christ and His finished work of redemption. Who said that this is a license to sin? Who said that this makes people a law unto themselves? Do you have any documented evidence, or is this all something you have concocted? [Note: I have not fixed any of the errors in the quote]
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I never said they were "perverse", so kindly don't put words in my mouth. What I say is they want a License to Sin to escape the same punishment the Unlicensed will suffer for doing the same things the Licensed do whatever that reason may be: presumption, a stop-gap measure, security (however false), etc.
I have a question: how come no one complains when the arguments of the Conditional Salvation crowd are reframed so as to "prove" they teach Legalism?
Can't we do both? Defeat them with sound arguments as I've done over and over, but also make clear what is obscured to them: that there's only one reason a person desires a License: to escape the same punishment the Unlicensed will suffer for doing the exact same thing the Licensed do. This is called "stripping away the dignity with which false doctrine is clothed".
No, it's not the truth. While the Just Man may stumble and fall into sin but is lifted up by the grace of God, the Presumptuous Man climbs down into the pit, sits down comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and waves his OSAS "License to Sin" in His face. He thinks his license will grant him immunity from suffering the same punishment which the Unlicensed will suffer for doing the exact same thing the Licensed do.
I have a question: how come no one complains when the arguments of the Conditional Salvation crowd are reframed so as to "prove" they teach Legalism?
Can't we do both? Defeat them with sound arguments as I've done over and over, but also make clear what is obscured to them: that there's only one reason a person desires a License: to escape the same punishment the Unlicensed will suffer for doing the exact same thing the Licensed do. This is called "stripping away the dignity with which false doctrine is clothed".
No, it's not the truth. While the Just Man may stumble and fall into sin but is lifted up by the grace of God, the Presumptuous Man climbs down into the pit, sits down comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and waves his OSAS "License to Sin" in His face. He thinks his license will grant him immunity from suffering the same punishment which the Unlicensed will suffer for doing the exact same thing the Licensed do.
LIsten to me very closely: WORDS MEAN THINGS.
OK?
It says right there that these "better things" ACCOMPANY salvation...or "ALONG WITH salvation" just as an "accompanying instrument" means an instrument played alongside a different instrument.
These "better things" are not "salvation" but are things which "accompany" salvation: specifically, steadfast faith, without which no man will see God.
OK?
It says right there that these "better things" ACCOMPANY salvation...or "ALONG WITH salvation" just as an "accompanying instrument" means an instrument played alongside a different instrument.
These "better things" are not "salvation" but are things which "accompany" salvation: specifically, steadfast faith, without which no man will see God.
Let's be clear: all four recipients were saved:
1. "in their hearts".
2. "received with gladness".
3. "became unfruitful" which means they previously brought forth fruit.
4. of course, continued to bring forth fruit.
Can the "unsaved" be said to have "received" God's Word "in their hearts" but later "became unfruitful" when Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't bring forth the fruit of obedience to God's Law even if they wanted to? Never.
BTW, even if the first three were symbolic of the "never saved", that still does not take away from the fact that Peter's dogs and pigs had escaped the pollutions of this world. YOU CAN'T BE SIMULTANEOUSLY "ESCAPED" AND "ENTANGLED AGAIN THEREIN" ANY MORE THAN A WOMAN CAN BE SIMULTANEOUSLY "PREGNANT" AND "NOT PREGNANT".
1. "in their hearts".
2. "received with gladness".
3. "became unfruitful" which means they previously brought forth fruit.
4. of course, continued to bring forth fruit.
Can the "unsaved" be said to have "received" God's Word "in their hearts" but later "became unfruitful" when Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't bring forth the fruit of obedience to God's Law even if they wanted to? Never.
BTW, even if the first three were symbolic of the "never saved", that still does not take away from the fact that Peter's dogs and pigs had escaped the pollutions of this world. YOU CAN'T BE SIMULTANEOUSLY "ESCAPED" AND "ENTANGLED AGAIN THEREIN" ANY MORE THAN A WOMAN CAN BE SIMULTANEOUSLY "PREGNANT" AND "NOT PREGNANT".