WHERE ARE WE TODAY IN THE BIRTH PAINS???

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Yes using scripture really helps.
The mess comes from isolating the phrase "fullness of the Gentiles" mixing it with "times of the Gentiles"
Then mixing in Daniel where it doesnt belong.

Also the phrase "All Israel will be saved" I see that that is NEVER defined. As if one day
we are to see all Jews/Hebrews/whatever saved. Its really a undefined mess.
Keep all that unqualified and the debate will remain.

zone · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

i want to know what your witness to this Gospel is:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

does that mean what it says or not?

and what about this? what is your witness to this?

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

did Jesus fail EG?

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

did He?
did He fail?
did he say ANYTHING about blinding His elect???????????

John 10:16
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

what is your witness to all of that?
did Jesus find His lost sheep? did they follow Him?
did He keep His word about bringing in Gentiles also?

is there one flock, one shepherd?

NOW? TODAY? EVER?

does any living person on this planet in any nation on earth have any claim whatsoever to any promise made by God at any time throughout history that is not found in Jesus Christ ALONE?

today or 50,000 years from now?

yes or no.

i just want to know about FALSE WITNESS.

what do you say about what JESUS CHRIST testified?

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

Zone i wasnt meaning you dont define it. I mean the ones you post to dont have a
working definition. So it stays a blurr.

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

I think once you build a skyscraper on a faulty foundation such as wrong a understanding "fullness of the Gentiles"
It causes a real problem even touching the foundation. Look how much will fall.

EG i wonder if you think that Israelites who didnt believe the gospel in the last 2000 years
are damned. Or if you believe that all were savable to the jew first then also to the gentiles.
What exactly does "All Israel will be saved" mean to you?

zone · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

"All Israel will be saved" - that's what the "Millennium" was originally FOR.

so that misinterpretation could 'happen'.

the jews originally believed it - the unbelieving jews KEPT believing it.

then antisemitic men like Darby proposed TWO Kingdoms - one for christians (heaven) and one on earth for jews!

mix it all up and you have the mess we deal with every day.

when the TRUTH is right there in plain sight.

zone · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

some dispensationalism has "Old Testament Jews" reincarnated into temporary flesh bodies!

or every last israelite who ever lived resurrected to reign in a Millennium - because of a dull understanding of THE PROMISE!

it's insanity. and i mean it. it really is.

Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

what does that say Mike?
above?

what does it SAY? how hard is this??

zone · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

oh my gosh.
show me Jesus teaching it.
show me.

He wasn't WORRIED about it?

something that would be MORE important than this current age?
and He never talked about it?

come on.....let's see EVERYTHING you have on what takes place during your 1,000 years...tell me what it is FOR.

John taught it...john got "the idea" about it?
you mean from that tiny section in Revelation with the phrase a thousand years?

why is it part of the plan when it ends in DISASTER?

how many times do you have to be shown the term a thousand used in scripture?
how long?

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

zone said:

But the foundations of it are easy to see...."fullness of the Gentiles" and "All Israel will be saved"
"times of the gentiles" and maybe a couple other things. But those are the main ones all is built on.
And easily destroyed. Otherwise its just a slippery debate that never ends. With people who wont
stay on task and deal with one phrase at a time.

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

zone said:

When i first noticed my ideas were wrong i right off noticed how little
I saw Christ in my theology. I then was amazed how He was the fulfillment
off all written in the law and the prophets. And Romans opened up big.
Israel made sense for once and the lights went on.

zone · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

huh? what ever gave you idea i wonder anything of the sort?

what's your witness about the gospel message, EG?
did it go to the jews first?
did they accept Him?
many did...we know many, because Daniel says he confirmed the Covenant with MANY.

but not all....does that mean ANYTHING other than that they were CUT OFF due to unbelief?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

well, if I were to believe as you yes.

But it does not mean

1. we can't do that
2. God did not intend us to do it.
3. It is wrong to do it.

You can't prove I am wrong to do it anymore than I can prove you are wrong for not doing it. Thats is why we believe different and will probably continue to agree different.

But hopefully your not going to be like zone and commit false witness saying I believe something I do not bel;ieve.. In fact I can not understand why people will not confront her for her many sins of bearing false witness against others.. Just because she believes as you do so we should not confront her??

eternally-gratefull · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

lol.. better yet. say they do not have a working defenition you can agree with.

this would be a better truth

zone · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

yah....if it wasn't so darned serious...and so insidious, and pervasive.
it's leaven.

just a little ruins the whole thing.

i guess ya have to really want the simplicity of the story.
which should be fairly simple, seeing as Christ is the Reason and Center of everything.
not Islam or Land or AIPAC or some magic 70th week.

speaking of fullness:

Ephesians 1
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined usb for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9making knownc to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory.

and speaking of promises, and blessing, and God electing

....i dunno. seems like hardly anybody wants to read anything the NT except Revelation.
dragons and chains...

ttyl

eternally-gratefull · Mar 15, 2013

zone said:

I thought you wanted me to stop talking to you? again you want to be a hypocrite and demand everyone do as you say not as you do? I am done. Again you commit false witness against me.. You KNOW I do not claim what you just claimed I did. You know my gospel is FAITH ALONE IN THE WORK OF CHRIST. It does not matter if your jew or gentile. I have said this OVER AND OVER AND OVER..

THE MELLINIUM IS NOT A SALVATION ISSUE, it is A MOMENT OF TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY, Just like the flood is a MOMENT OF TIME IN MENS HISTORY.. do you want to make that a salvic issue too??

keep bearing false witness. and I will start reporting every post you do it on!!

peacefulbeliever · Mar 15, 2013

zone said:

peaceful...you've stated clearly you adhere to hyper-dispensationalism.
there's no real conversation to be had

why would i 'answer your questions' (i.e: attempting to explain any alternative) when you have no intention of leaving that position?

i have stated the Amillennial, One Church One People, No Millennium view.
provided scripture and outside sources...and am happy to keep posting on that.
for your consideration only.

and you are posting hyper-dispensationalism. which i reject completely.

we will never, ever agree, so long as one believes (hyper)dispensationalism, and the other does not.
not ever.i reject ALL dispensationalism.

particularly Bullingerism

Hyper-dispensationalism (ultra-dispensationalism[1] or more rarely "Bullingerism"[2]) is a niche Protestant doctrine that views the teachings of the Apostle Paul both as unique from earlier apostles and as foundational for the church, a perspective sometimes characterized by proponents as the "Pauline Distinctive."[3] E. W. Bullinger (1837–1913), an Anglican clergyman and scholar, is the best known early expositor of Acts 28 hyper-dispensationalism, although the ideas trace back further to John Nelson Darby (1800–1882).

Hyper-dispensationalism is rejected by mainstream dispensationalism, which holds that the Church began at Pentecost[4] long prior to Paul's conversion to Christianity as described early in the New Testament book entitled "Acts of the Apostles." Popular dispensationalist Harry A. Ironside (1876–1951) unfairly declared Bullingerism an "absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth." [5] Anti-dispensationalists simultaneously admire hyper-dispensationalism as a "consistent Dispensationalism" and condemn it as much like a "cult or sect."[6] Evangelicals reject adherents as "divisive."[7]

Hyperdispensationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

Thank you, zone.

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I think you should know zones style, her irony, and what guilt by association means.
In fact i know you know. So why the surprise? And why do you hit back? Id step in
but not if someone hits back. And keeps up the dialogue knowing by experience exactly
the steps it will take. After 1 is 2 then 3 then 4. If i was a bookie id be rich

I think if we wanted ant resolve. Lets take one verse at a time. If theres no resolve on
just "One" verse...then we cant debate a whole subject.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 15, 2013

Abiding said:

lol.. ok.. Its perfectly fine for her to make false accusations for the WHOLE CHATROOM TAO SEE (including new people who have never seen the issue) And we should not post our true beliefs, but just let the whole chatroom think we believe what we do not believe.

wow.. ok.. (I have actually had PMS asking me about things she said and if I believe them.. so I am not just saying this!)

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

That sounds so common. Why bore ourselves with immature jabs.
What i mean is if we provided our definitions of common "phrases"
first, and held them to scripture...then at least we can see where
the foundational problems are.

And theres a possibility that that alone may change opinions.

Abiding · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

EG in this thread alone you have told zone she:

was teaching a false gospel of hate
refuses to listen
is a hater
she was blind
is a mocker
is a liar
only believes what she was taught
bearing false witness against others.

My point is that im not sure you need protected.

Also you have repeatedly said that what you believe isnt being known. Many times.
Maybe make a thread or a post like Elin and then use the link...itll save having to say that so much.

zone · Mar 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

well go ahead and report for false witness EG.
the only problem you're going to have with that is making sure your actual beliefs are defined.
which they aren't.

yet you continually bear false witness to the clear testimony of scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
even His very own words.

so, The Land is not a salvation issue.
it's a ByProduct of a Promise. a loose end.
that has nothing to do with anything, and it doesn't save the jews, nor bring about their salvation.
is that right?

and now the Millennium is not a salvation issue.
is it a salvation issue for people who are going to depend on it to be SAVED during it?

eternally-gratefull said:

but if you're a gentile in Israel sometime soon the future, God is going to see you are either expelled from there, or subjugated under some kind of jewish rule - which i have no idea what that is, since they reject CHRIST - or be killed (as we see today) - ethnic cleansing.

but in another variation.....somehow some magic blinders will come off....and they (Israelis) will be "following Christ", and STILL gentiles will be under the boot.

that's some other gospel. and some other christ.

WHERE ARE WE TODAY IN THE BIRTH PAINS???

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