Where did King James only originate?

[ResidentAlien]

Before 1930:

William Lyon Phelps published his "Human Nature in the Bible" copyrighted 1921- (Paper Trail) which is before 1930.

But the crowning achievement of those spacious times was the Authorised Translation of the Bible, which appeared in 1611. Three centuries of English literature followed; but although they have been crowded with poets and novelists and essayists, and although the teaching of the English language and literature now gives employment to many earnest men and women, the art of English composition reached its climax in the pages of the Bible....

Germans or the Italians or the Spanish; our English translation is even better than the original Hebrew and Greek. There is only one way to explain this; I have no theory to account for the so-called "inspiration of the Bible," but I am confident that the Authorised Version was inspired.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/hnb/intro.htm

Phelps, Human Nature in the Bible, Introduction, p. iv:

"Priests, atheists, sceptics, devotees, agnostics, and evangelists are generally agreed that the Authorised Version of the English Bible is the best example of English literature that the world has ever seen."​

​

Ibid, p. xii:

"In this book I shall consider the Old Testament as a work of literature, revealing the grandeur, the folly, the nobility, the baseness of human nature. . .I shall consider it as I would a play, an essay, a novel, a poem."​

​

I admit I haven't read the whole book, but it doesn't sound like it's a treatise on the spiritual preeminence of the KJV. What he does is laud the value of the KJV as a work of literature. This reinforces what I've been saying: the KJV is a work of high literature, but it runs counter to the colloquial Greek in which the New Testament is written. A work of great high English does not a great version of the Bible make.

If Phelps' book is what is considered a milestone in KJV onlyism, it explains why KJV onlyists are so confused.

Phelps, Human Nature in the Bible, Introduction:

https://archive.org/details/cu31924029277195/page/n14/mode/1up

 

[fredoheaven]

Phelps, Human Nature in the Bible, Introduction, p. iv:

"Priests, atheists, sceptics, devotees, agnostics, and evangelists are generally agreed that the Authorised Version of the English Bible is the best example of English literature that the world has ever seen."​

​

Ibid, p. xii:

"In this book I shall consider the Old Testament as a work of literature, revealing the grandeur, the folly, the nobility, the baseness of human nature. . .I shall consider it as I would a play, an essay, a novel, a poem."​

​

I admit I haven't read the whole book, but it doesn't sound like it's a treatise on the spiritual preeminence of the KJV. What he does is laud the value of the KJV as a work of literature. This reinforces what I've been saying: the KJV is a work of high literature, but it runs counter to the colloquial Greek in which the New Testament is written. A work of great high English does not a great version of the Bible make.

If Phelps' book is what is considered a milestone in KJV onlyism, it explains why KJV onlyists are so confused.

Phelps, Human Nature in the Bible, Introduction:

https://archive.org/details/cu31924029277195/page/n14/mode/1up

Well, just giving you a paper trail...long before 1930

 

[fredoheaven]

How can a language as flawed and week as the english be better than the more indepth and more complete language of the greek?

Explain this one please.

Just giving some paper trail, anyway, I am just after what the OP is all about.

 

[fredoheaven]

Resident Alien, see also post 82, I just cut and paste there. Try to read that might interest you also regarding your paper trail. Thanks

 

[ResidentAlien]

Just giving some paper trail, anyway, I am just after what the OP is all about.

I understand.

 

[fredoheaven]

Here's more of the paper trail to consider:

http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/orthodox-creed.pdf

 

[ResidentAlien]

I'd like to hear from KJV onlyists. If not Benjamin G. Wilkinson, what was your first exposure to KJV onlyism? Were you influenced by an earlier source?

So far one person said they arrived at the idea entirely on their own. Is that the case for everyone?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If the Westcott and Hort text removed "thou shalt not bear false witness" from Romans 13:9, it may very well be that certain translators gravitated towards that text because they were in all reality liars.

Westcott and Hort were undoubtedly liars since they blatantly lied about the history of the Greek text, and perverted the truth. They falsely claimed that the Received Text had been corrupted, and that the corrupted manuscripts which they were using was the pure text! Indeed the Westcott & Hort Theory was a total hoax, yet there were only a few who exposed these liars. Here is an apt comment by Burgon in The Revision Revised:

"Shame, — yes, shame on the learning which comes abroad only to perplex the weak, and to unsettle the doubting, and to mislead the blind! Shame, — yes, shame on that two-thirds majority of well-intentioned but most incompetent men who, finding themselves (in an evil hour) appointed to correct ‘plain and clear errors’ in the English ‘Authorized Version,’ occupied themselves instead with falsifying the inspired Greek Text in countless places, and branding with suspicion some of the most precious utterances of the SPIRIT! Shame, — yes, shame upon them!"

 

[Gideon300]

I like the ISR '98 occasionally too...made by Christian Jews in South Africa...the later editions are not as "good" in my opinion...
But an off continent translation is sometimes helpful.

The use of language is so subjective that two people can read the same passage and come away with a plethora of ideas.

Mostly because of the style of writing that the scriptures were once written in.

Books were once extremely expensive. Paper wasn't cheap whatsoever. Everything was hand transcribed.

And if you were paying $90,000 for a book... you wanted value for your money...all the writing was concentrated as much as possible to conserve paper and ink. (Every word was precious and expensive)

A very far cry from today where words are cheap...and people look at the expense of time to have enough of them.

That is why we need the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us. We also need to ensure that we are no taking scriptures out of context. Someone ( I won't name him), who is called a prophet, declared that the Holy Spirit is Lord, based on one scripture. Plainly this is a complete misinterpretation. No one is going to bow the knee and confess that the Holy Spirit is Lord. God has declared that Jesus is Lord.

 

[posthuman]

That is just nonsense. The KJB was commissioned because of opposition to the Calvinistic Geneva Bible. Which shows that you know little or nothing about this subject.

king James was opposed to many of the Geneva Bible's prodigious marginal notes, which often have a slant toward reformation thinking, not to the actual translation.
James was concerned about the Presbyterian movement in Scotland, which involved ((among other things)) decentralizing religious power within the church. he saw it as a potential attack on his own political power. "no bishop, no king!" he shouted, at the conference from which the commissioning of the kjv originated.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That is why we need the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us. We also need to ensure that we are no taking scriptures out of context. Someone ( I won't name him), who is called a prophet, declared that the Holy Spirit is Lord, based on one scripture. Plainly this is a complete misinterpretation. No one is going to bow the knee and confess that the Holy Spirit is Lord. God has declared that Jesus is Lord.

Why don't you name the person? If someone is teaching false doctrine it's our responsibility to point them out. Unless you're not convinced they really are in error.

 

[Dino246]

Westcott and Hort were undoubtedly liars since they blatantly lied about the history of the Greek text, and perverted the truth. They falsely claimed that the Received Text had been corrupted, and that the corrupted manuscripts which they were using was the pure text!

Only if they knew that their claims were false can they rightly be accused of lying.

 

[Lanolin]

I remember meeting a KJV only christian I think they belonged to an independent baptist group and they gave me a booklet about it I have it somewhere must go find it and dig it up

It might tell me how it originated.
I recall they were really into dispensationalism teachings. I didnt stay for long I just found somethign odd about it all. They seemed nice and all but their congregation was so tiny it was probably only the pastor and his family relations.

 

[JesusLives]

My question to the OP is.... Do you already know the answer or are you looking for the answer? Sometimes people get an idea in their heads and just run with it. Kind of like the flat earth belief....

 

[fredoheaven]

That's weird. How can a translation be better than the original?

If I am going to interpret that to you, with the thought as the ""original Hebrew and Greek language" that is koine Greek and paleo Hebrew which are now said to be dead languages, there might be some reasons why a translation is better than them

1. Translation is better than the original language Hebrew and Greek in the sense it is far received and understood by the common people with their common language.

Canst thou speak Greek? Acts 21:37

2. The gospel must be preached to all nations so we need a translation. Having God’s word translated, the gospel has reached more millions of people who have not heard the gospel than with the original language.

Matthew 28:18-20

Did this satisfy? Thanks

 

[JohnDB]

Westcott and Hort were undoubtedly liars since they blatantly lied about the history of the Greek text, and perverted the truth. They falsely claimed that the Received Text had been corrupted, and that the corrupted manuscripts which they were using was the pure text! Indeed the Westcott & Hort Theory was a total hoax, yet there were only a few who exposed these liars

This is totally wrong...
Absolutely created out of thin air false accusations.

 

[ResidentAlien]

My question to the OP is.... Do you already know the answer or are you looking for the answer? Sometimes people get an idea in their heads and just run with it. Kind of like the flat earth belief....

As I already said, at first I thought it started with Benjamin G. Wilkinson's book. But someone said no, it started much earlier. So I started wondering about it. I figured KJV onlyists would know where they got the idea if anyone would. If not from Wilkinson, then who or where. Was it from a source earlier than Wilkinson? No one seems to know where they got the idea. I find that odd.

From what I know so far, the roots seem to go back to Westcott & Hort and the beginnings of Biblical criticism. But the picture I'm getting is that these ideas probably crystalized with Wilkinson and became available to the wider public after 1930.

By the way, I'm not saying that simply because Wilkinson was a Seventh-day Adventist that means the KJV only movement is associated with SDA. Some people have insinuated that Wilkinson wasn't the originator of KJV onlyism in an attempt to distance it from SDA. I couldn't care less about SDA. All I care about is what influence Wilkinson had on the KJV only movement.

 

[JesusLives]

As I already said, at first I thought it started with Benjamin G. Wilkinson's book. But someone said no, it started much earlier. So I started wondering about it. I figured KJV onlyists would know where they got the idea if anyone would. If not from Wilkinson, then who or where. Was it from a source earlier than Wilkinson? No one seems to know where they got the idea. I find that odd.

From what I know so far, the roots seem to go back to Westcott & Hort and the beginnings of Biblical criticism. But the picture I'm getting is that these ideas probably crystalized with Wilkinson and became available to the wider public after 1930.

By the way, I'm not saying that simply because Wilkinson was a Seventh-day Adventist that means the KJV only movement is associated with SDA. Some people have insinuated that Wilkinson wasn't the originator of KJV onlyism in an attempt to distance it from SDA. I couldn't care less about SDA. All I care about is what influence Wilkinson had on the KJV only movement.

So you don't know the answer and are really looking for someone to give you the answer. Good luck with that. I am more prone to believe that it is a hop on the band wagon idea. No one usually likes to admit to being the first one who had the idea.

 

[ResidentAlien]

So you don't know the answer and are really looking for someone to give you the answer. Good luck with that. I am more prone to believe that it is a hop on the band wagon idea. No one usually likes to admit to being the first one who had the idea.

LOL, no. I'm not looking for someone to give me the answer. I'm looking for information so I can formulate my own answer. I've already figured out quite a bit.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Well, if it'll make everyone feel any better, most newer translations are based on Nestle & Aland not Westcott & Hort.