Where does Jesus Speak about the Millennium?

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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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If you don't think he was out of it, you must not have seen many people that has happened to. It is not a normal and rational state of being.
I most certainly do not think John was "out of it". I believe the book of Revelation is the word of God concerning what will take place during the upcoming trib and beyond.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I most certainly do not think John was "out of it". I believe the book of Revelation is the word of God concerning what will take place during the upcoming trib and beyond.
Then tell us what you think John meant when he said he "was in the spirit."
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Then tell us what you think John meant when he said he "was in the spirit."
It means that what he wrote was revelation from Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:
1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

John received revelation concerning the end times.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It is not named per se, but allusions are found to this time period in Isaiah, Jeremiah and a few other books or Psalms it seems.....
 
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GaryA

Guest
Interesting that so far nothing found in the gospels or the letters written by Paul, Peter or James on such an important topic.
But Paul did, so that won't float the boat.
So -- you are saying that you like-and-respect the writings of Paul, Peter, and James - but, not those of John?

Why isolate John?
 
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GaryA

Guest
It's the abomination that desolates in Matthew 24:25 that is important to premil doctrine. If the 'a that d's' occurs 1290 to 1335 days before the resurrection (Daniel 12) when Jesus returns to be the King of kings then the 1000 years is literal. If the 'a that d's' is the destruction of the Jewish Temple in the middle of the 7 years that the Roman army warred against Israel in 70 AD then the 1000 years is not literal.
( I think you meant Matthew 24:15. )


I do not believe that the AoD and the 1335 days are directly tied to the resurrection.

I do not believe in the 7-year 'tribulation' period.


I believe that the AoD and the 1335 days are associated with the events circa 70 A.D.

I believe that the resurrection and 1000 years are yet future.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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So -- you are saying that you like-and-respect the writings of Paul, Peter, and James - but, not those of John?
Nope...I'm saying they never mentioned the "millennium/thousand years".
 
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GaryA

Guest
A member here on CC who goes by HeRoseFromTheDead once made a rather astute observation that I thought was very good. He said, "Preterism actually promotes historical understanding against which prophecies can be examined. Futurism promotes fanciful projections of prophecy into the future that can't be examined against anything. One is based on historical witness; the other is based on imagination as if prophecy is self-defining."
If I could change one thing about his statement it would be his last comment. Rather that saying "as if prophecy is self-defining," I would have said as if prophesy was subject to human interpretation.
If I were to change it, I would perhaps use the word 'Historicism' ( as generally associated with biblical [ prophetic ] history; not associated with the Seventh-day Adventist group ) instead of 'Preterism' -- as a more "correct" term for the statement. ;)
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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The only problem with "historicism" is that it spreads the book of revelation over the centuries until "now" and has no clue who the "whore of Babylon" is.

The correct answer is 1st century apostate Judah who were held responsible for killing the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I know this will be rejected, denied and most will not take the time to study the entity found in Psalm 137, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Habakkuk and REVELATION which is identified as the DAUGHTER of BABYLON whose chief CITY is called BABYLON where the KINGS of the EARTH MEET.

SHE is identified as the LADY of the KINGDOMS, the HINDERMOST of the NATIONS and HER national symbols are a LADY/EAGLE and SHE mounts her DEFENSES to the UTMOST HEAVENS and is the HAMMER of the WHOLE EARTH.......SHE has 80 CHARACTERISTICS and a 10.5 BILLION to 1 which NATION it is when the MATH is DONE as applied unto ALL characteristics..............
 
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GaryA

Guest
e. Job 9:3, “If he (man) will contend with him (God), he cannot answer him one of a thousand.” Does this suggest that man may be able to answer God in 1001 times? No. This simply conveys the absolute futility of man's wisdom when confronted by the wisdom of God. Man will never be able to answer God.
There is no association here to '1001'; it is not about "going over" 1000. It is talking about - one out of a thousand - or - one in a thousand - one being a [ miniscule | minuscule ] part of the thousand.

The implication is the same, but the association is different.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Yeah, nobody takes the time...

 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Of course I missed the mark, that was 1970 years ago...:cool:
 
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GaryA

Guest
The one thing that almost anyone knows who has studied Revelation, at all, is that almost every symbolic reference in the book comes straight out of the old testament. If you don't know the OT, you are staggering around in the dark, trying to figure out John's Apocalypse.
However -- those who do not recognize that the OT symbolic references are pointing to the [ same ] actual events that Revelation is illustrating - stagger in the dark more than anyone - going from symbolic reference to symbolic reference - never arriving at the "real thing" that they are pointing to - thereby, inventing for themselves [ by "spiritualizing" ] the meaning of the symbolic references that can only point to somewhere in the imagination of those who refuse to allow the Bible to define them.

The events that are illustrated in Revelation are not "back-references" to the OT references; rather, the OT references "point forward" to the events revealed to John.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Willy is correct - a good portion of John's visions are "repeats" of previous curses and wrath poured out on disobedient Israel/Judah using the language of the prophets which is highly symbolic and poetic.

Revelation is mainly about the judgement of the whore:

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Mat 23:35 KJV) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 
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GaryA

Guest
The argument made by Ahwatukee is a popular one - "Just stay in the book of Revelation. No need to go outside the book to understand the imagery." The problem with this is that the book of Revelation does not exist in a vacuum. All of its scenes and imagery come right out of the OT. John does not simply pull these out of thin air and assign new meaning to them. If you want to know the meaning of these symbols then go back to where they are used and explained.
I totally agree that a good study of Revelation will require the inclusion of several passages in the OT; however, that does not mean that what is said in Revelation simply "mimics OT prophetic language"...

In one sense, parts of Revelation are "more of the same" in terms of the detail given about certain events, etc. But - Revelation is not merely a "repeat" of OT prophecy in the same symbolic form. It describes the very real events that the OT references talk about.

Like Zi said -- the book of Revelation reveals what was not beforehand known about the events that it illustrates...

The scenes and imagery in the OT are real. The scenes and imagery in Revelation are real. A lot of it ( in both places ) talk about the very same thing(s)...

( I am not saying that every-little-thing in Revelation is absolutely literal - just exactly as it is written. There is most certainly a lot of symbolism in the book. What I am saying is that the events described in the book are real. )
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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So were the symbolic prophesies in the OT Gary, such as:

Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

It was the Assyrians who were the instrument of God's wrath on Egypt, though it is said that God was coming on a cloud - Isaiah 20:1-4
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Willy is correct - a good portion of John's visions are "repeats" of previous curses and wrath poured out on disobedient Israel/Judah using the language of the prophets which is highly symbolic and poetic.

Revelation is mainly about the judgement of the whore:

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Mat 23:35 KJV) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
My problem with embracing the above black bolded.....the words which follow...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In Gods eyes and perspective.....2000 years more than qualifies as shortly.....as a matter of fact it can be 2 days, 6 hours or as but yesterday....
 
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GaryA

Guest
That's fine Garee, but I already stated in the opening post that I wanted confirmation from either the gospels or letters, not the book of revelation.
By any chance is there something that is only stated in Acts that you are unwilling to accept because there is no mention of it in Paul's letters?