Which gospel?

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NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Yep. Once again describing those who are born again.

ALL the warnings are there for a person to examine themselves, to make their election sure.

There are MANY, who trust in numerous other things than Christ ALONE to attain and maintain Salvation. The warnings are there for them.

Don't be one of THEM. Jesus loves and died for YOU. His Sacrifice is sufficient. But if YOU insist on paying your debt yourself, His Sacrifice will not profit you.
I suppose it is Jesus paying "these" debts to God?
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

It is in this same manner to the which then, that this Holy Priesthood, shall not profit you. :cry:
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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TheDivineWatermark said: ^ EDIT to add: note: "the DOTL" [an earthly time period of MUCH duration] goes on to INCLUDE the ENTIRE 1000-yr MK age, but here ^ I am focusing on its "ARRIVAL" (at WHAT point in time it ARRIVES)
So then its a thousand literal years plus a unknown... in limbo or purgatorial ?
You seem to not recall our past discussions on this ^ .

No. There is no such thing as "purgatory" or "[being in] limbo". (It seems like you are just trying to deliberately cast aspersions rather than to endeavor to "understand" what I've presented, both in this post and in past posts where we've discussed similar topics). Nevertheless, I will again reiterate what I've said INSTEAD:

--"the Day of the Lord" is an earthly TIME PERIOD of MUCH DURATION (defined [biblically] as: "a period of time of JUDGMENTs followed by a period of time of BLESSINGs" [NOT merely a "singular 24-hr day" (for EITHER PORTION!)]; "The DOTL" [earthly time period] INCLUDES [ALL 3 of] 1) the 7-yr trib upon the earth [the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" portion]; 2) Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth [the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion; AND 3) His 1000-yr reign on/over the earth [the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" portion]... ALL THREE)

--by the start of the MK age, ALL "saints"/"believers" will have been "resurrected" (those who will have died before that point, of course [some, recall (like in Dan12:12 and Matt25:31-34, etc etc) will be "still-living" at the time it commences and will ENTER it in their MORTAL bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children])... the point being, that ALL who are going to be "resurrected UNTO LIFE" will have been "resurrected" FOR the MK age, to enjoy it! (ALL "saints" present and accounted for!)

--also at the time of His 2nd Coming to the earth (b/f the MK age commences), the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] will take place (re: the still-living persons who are NOT "saved"; as well as "the host of the high ones that are on high"); THIS is parallel to [the point in time of] Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5--the "unsaved/unbelievers" (still alive at His 2nd Coming) will "BE PUNISHED" (i.e. DIE, Rev19:21 and other passages relating to this point in time); those "unsaved/unbelievers" who die (at that point) are NOT IN LIMBO, do NOT "get a second chance" and are NOT "in purgatory"... it is simply "hell" [i.e. "cast into outer darkness"] before the later [final carrying out of the sentence at the GWTj (for "the DEAD [/unsaved of all times]"] "cast into the lake of fire" of Rev20:11-15!... which is the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22 (the TWO "PUNISH" words of this passage are SEPARATED [time-wise] BY a PERIOD OF TIME [i.e. the MK age, btwn His 2nd Coming to the earth, and the later GWTj (1000-yrs later)])
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ … so no, no one is talkin' "purgatory" or "limbo" or "opp'ty for second chances [after death]" or anything like that...

I have no clue how you derived something like that from what I posted. ;) (poor reading skillzzz?? ;) )


[and since we're on this topic (again :D ), the concepts put forth by Chuck Missler & wife in their "latest[?]" writing (on the Subject of "the kingdom") is wholly unbiblical... (i.e. the "Millennial-Exclusion[for any member of "the Church which is His body"]-Theory")... ]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Anyway, sure hope the 7 churches were willing to hear the Word of the Lord against them. To him who overcomes!
Understand that "the churchES" (of Rev2-3) are made up of both "believers" AND "those who come in His name, but who are not vitally connected with Christ [i.e. the UNSAVED / not true Christians/saints/believers]" (both).

"The Church which is His body" (by contrast) is made up on "ONLY believers/saints/true Christians".

The letters in Rev2-3 are addressed to "the churchES" (made up of both true believers/saints, and not-true believers/saints [/the unsaved]).

The "overcomers" are those who, as 1 John 5:5 tells us,

"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"


Again,

1 John 5:9-12 -

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have already, as you well know, defeated you on this
"believe in vain issue". Your response of
Well, I just don't see it that way" is rather lame, and doesn't change the Truth one smidgen: FROM the "Why I now believe that salvation can be lost thread:

In order to grasp Paul's comment about believing in vain, you have to take the whole passage IN CONTEXT.

I think this gentleman does an excellent job explaining what "believing in vain" means here in context.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17
"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And IF Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise IF it is true that the dead are not raised. For IF the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain and you are still in your sins."

Only in one hypothetical case could someone believe in Jesus Christ and his believing be in vain. This would happen IF Jesus Christ hadn't been raised from the dead. In that case your most honest believing would really not be able to save you. Without the resurrection of the Lord Jesus there would be no salvation. Without His resurrection, our believing would be in vain, empty, futile. Look what else would have happened, if Christ had not risen:

So in other words, if you confess Jesus with your mouth, yet don't believe in your heart He was raised to life, you have believed in Him in vain.
We may be saying the side thing, it what I see is the only way one could believe in vein is if Christ did nto die and has not risen. Then our belief would be in vein, Because christs sacrifice is invalid, or he never died for us to begin with.

I can not see the postor you are talking with. So I my misunderstand what you said Also. If so forgive me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I appeal to you in love. One way we can know that you are misapplying these Scriptures is the huge swaths of Scriptures they cause you to ignore, such as the many I have referenced which such doctrine opposes. I believe in eternal security but not if one trifles with the warnings of Scripture. As Bonhoeffer said, "If we are not willing to hear the Word of God against ourselves we will never be true servants of God."

It may seem odd to you but one way Christians display this false ideology is with their own bodies. They are free to continue in the works of the sinful nature. One consequence is very many are overweight. Why? Gluttony. Whereas the slave of Christ who has offered his body as a living sacrifice has lost his own life and denies himself and eats by faith, whereby not overeating b/c that is never God's will (and only he who does God's will will enter the Kingdom of Heaven), members of a religion are free to eat what and when they want since they haven't denied themselves, and for many, it becomes compulsive, even demonic, and they are enslaved... in Egypt. But Jesus came to free us! They have not "ceased from their own works." But instead, if you wish to take that Scripture your referenced in context, what is being talked about leading up to that is the warning that we not repeat the error of Israel. "Today, if you hear His voice (and that's how His sheep live and walk, on every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God) do not harden your hearts" as they did. The Sabbath-rest for the people of God in the Kingdom of God is glorious. He is King, our king. That makes us kings. A kingdom of priests! Which is what God was always after.

And I'm just referencing one of the many acts of the sinful nature that true disciples of Christ are not permitted to go on in and don't since they have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Living in the Spirit with Christ as their head, they can't do those things. The wolves have to stand back from His rod and staff. Which leads in to what faith really is, since most of your list is predicated on the word believe.

We see in Matthew's Gospel, 21:22 I think it is, but that whatever we ask for in prayer, believing, we receive. That's one example. Also, in 1 John, that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God and that no one who is born of God sins (dead to sin, just like your list says!) Believe means to adhere and cleave to Jesus. That's why I'm talking about this life of faith which depends on Him, which stays near Him, which even places Jesus before the believer: I have set the Lord before Me continually. We wait upon Him all the day! Seeking His Kingdom and righteousness first, He is faithful to add everything unto us that the pagans run after. And that is our testimony since 1996. He has been awesome.

Wanna know how to distill the whole Bible down? We can't go on sinning. (That's why we needed a better sacrifice that could free us, instead of just forgiving us.) And the things we do have to be done at God's direction. Those 2 points are true to Jesus and for us are death and resurrection; passing through the Red sea then getting the pillar of fire. Can you see it? It's glorious when you see what the shadow was from! This simplicity in Christ is what Churchianity kept from me. I never heard the Gospel of the Kingdom so I never had the government of God over me. I hadn't taken His yoke upon me. I couldn't follow in His steps as Peter tells us to, the first point of which is "He committed no sin". Everything Jesus taught is about what we do.

Perfect Bible distillation Scripture: "Obey My voice and I will be your God and you will be My people and walk only in the way that I command you so that it may go well with you." Simple. But because it's not so simple to do ("difficult the way") religion had to make up silly rules and doctrines to widen the gate (a lot of times for money) but it ultimately leads to destruction. I don't want them destroyed.

The prophet is a fool and the spiritual man is insane because of the greatness of your sin and great enmity, it is written. The Bible is totally up to date. These signs shall follow them that believe.
And this man claims he is NOT trying to earn his salvation.

I bet if he had a weight problem which was medical he would be judging himself because he may lose his salvation because although he diets and eats well. His body just will not cooperate with him.

Plus I must wonder. How fat is to fat before salvation is lost??
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Ah! So it’s me misapplying all 101 Scriptures I posted and not YOU misapplying what you posted. Got it!
Wow, Cadet. You go long. I go long. You tap out.

Did the Holy Spirit help you with what you wrote too or were copying that from somewhere? Those Scriptures fit well. Seems those I referenced don't fit with your theology though. :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Ah! So it’s me misapplying all 101 Scriptures I posted and not YOU misapplying what you posted. Got it!
He could not even respond to where water baptism is found in Colossians 2. (Since he used that passage in his op as water baptism) So his reputation is already in ruins as a bible scholar.. Let alone, a bible teacher.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul is not false. Neither does he want you to stop reading after verse 2.
They can not understand this..They refuse to acknowledge what they do causes the Bible to contradict itself. And as such, makes the Bible untrustworthy. Basically a book with words no better than any other book that has ever been written.

Then the fact they trample the cross. Saying it is not enough

Then they trample Christ. Saying his gift is no gift at all. But a down payment for our good works..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nope. The obedience leads to righteousness is entirely descriptive of how our Heavenly Father works in our life through the Holy Spirit to transform us into the likeness of His Son.


A good tree bears good fruit. A bad tree bears bad fruit. You STILL don't seem to comprehend it's about the Tree NOT the fruit.
The legalistic mindset

its not about God, Its about self.

The can not fathom, Those who obey the gospel will have eternal life. And the result will cause them to learn obedience in a way they can actually obey God in a way which is not just words and deeds, But out of the heart.

A non believer can obey commands, Paul told us that, even though they never had the law

But only a child of God. Can truly be obedient,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sure can. And do. That's the whole point of John's passage.
Yep.

He also said they were NEVER OF US, That a born again Child of God can not live in sin. Etc Etc Etc...

I guess we Should not take the word for what it says..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
They are basically the second soil. They heard the Gospel, but didn't truly believe, because they had NO Root. JESUS is the Root.

So they had a false profession, but fell away. But NONE of them were converted Brethren.
No root No Jesus.

Simple math, yet they do not get it..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well of course that's your opinion. You don't trust Christ to save, and keep you saved.
No mystery there.
Lol

Yep

I trust Christ, But um, I really do not trust Christ.

Then they expect they are saved..

Even demons believe

People of true faith work.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nope. Churches are filled with people who have NEVER trusted in Christ ALONE for their Salvation, yet go along with Church life. They eventually fall away if they don't repent of their dead works and believe.
Yep

As john said, they left to expose they were never of us..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Wow, Cadet. You go long. I go long. You tap out.

Did the Holy Spirit help you with what you wrote too or were copying that from somewhere? Those Scriptures fit well. Seems those I referenced don't fit with your theology though. :)
Those 100 he wrote do not fit with yours.

Can you humbl yourself and explain where water baptism is in Col 2? Or are you still going to hide from the fact you are totally unable to answer that question?

Don’t do it for me. I know the answer. Do it for your disciples or those you are trying to convert. Otherwise, you just prove you are not someone who should be trusted.

Then again, Don’t answer,, it will be eternal for them to know the truth.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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^ … so no, no one is talkin' "purgatory" or "limbo" or "opp'ty for second chances [after death]" or anything like that...

I have no clue how you derived something like that from what I posted. ;) (poor reading skillzzz?? ;) )


[and since we're on this topic (again :D ), the concepts put forth by Chuck Missler & wife in their "latest[?]" writing (on the Subject of "the kingdom") is wholly unbiblical... (i.e. the "Millennial-Exclusion[for any member of "the Church which is His body"]-Theory")... ]

They are talking about extending beyond the last day more time to purge. Not for a second chance still working on the first . The language of the parable is signified as is the rest of the book .Why literalize the time period and none of the other metaphors . Need to go beyond the last day as those who number days and people?

One rises on the last day and the same last day not days hours or years the other that not raised to new spirit life. . judgment .Both occurs in the twinkling of the eye

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


John 12:4 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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If you are preaching ANYTHING other than the atoning death and subsequent Resurrection, of God in the flesh, in the form of His Son, Jesus Christ, for the Salvation into Eternal Life, then YES! You are preaching a DIFFERENT gospel.
I think you are confusing me with someone else. As far as i can recall, i have not said anything against Jesus' death and resurrection - the atoning sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Wow, Cadet. You go long. I go long. You tap out.

Did the Holy Spirit help you with what you wrote too or were copying that from somewhere? Those Scriptures fit well. Seems those I referenced don't fit with your theology though. :)
So first thing. Why you gotta steal my moniker I gave Mr. Noose? Be a LITTLE original son!

Second, who's tapping out? I have a life outside of correcting your heresies ya know. Also, you haven't addressed a SINGLE ONE of the 101 verses that destroy your works to maintain or else Father Abba tosses you into the LOF heresy. So who is the REAL tapper?

Let me ask you about the very 1st video of yours I clicked on"Once saved always saved? part 1"

Didn't take long to encounter some ridiculous private interpretations. Not only ridiculous, but heretical. In several places (and I could only stomach about 20 minutes of this stuff) you say that ALL 10 virgins had oil (The Holy Spirit), but 5 didn't have enough of the Holy Spirit. Tell me how much Holy Spirit you have to have to be saved please?

For those that would like to see him say this, one of the times is at around the 3:35 - 4:00 mark.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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I think you are confusing me with someone else. As far as i can recall, i have not said anything against Jesus' death and resurrection - the atoning sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
Yeah... I don't think I'm confused.

You have consistently added works to maintain your salvation to that Gospel.

Heck, if I remember correctly, you don't even think people are CURRENTLY saved!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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I suppose it is Jesus paying "these" debts to God?
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

It is in this same manner to the which then, that this Holy Priesthood, shall not profit you. :cry:
Umm. Where is debt for sin payment in that passage. I can’t even see it by stretching the passage in any way.