Which laws are and are not valid?

[p_rehbein]

Yes,but how many of us look at them through the lens of love and not as a list of dos and don'ts?

We should all do that..........but you may have a point. Even so, when we teach our children such life lessons, they are do's and don'ts, so that can't be all bad.

I mean, reading through that list, it's hard to argue that ANY of them would be acceptable practice for a Christian.

 

[SarahM777]

We should all do that..........but you may have a point. Even so, when we teach our children such life lessons, they are do's and don'ts, so that can't be all bad.

I mean, reading through that list, it's hard to argue that ANY of them would be acceptable practice for a Christian.

I agree. God did not give us His laws to HURT us but they are also for our good. And He is God and He knows us better then we do. The thing is one can leave out love in the dos and don'ts.

 

[p_rehbein]

I agree. God did not give us His laws to HURT us but they are also for our good. And He is God and He knows us better then we do. The thing is one can leave out love in the dos and don'ts.

Didn't you mean...................... "one CAN'T leave out love in the do's and don'ts? Sounds better Or, reading again, maybe you mean "some" can leave out "love.........."

Yes, pretty much every one that I listed are covered by the Two Greatest, but that doesn't lessen their value to us.

See, maybe I read the Scripture different from most when God said He would write His laws on/in our hearts........to me that means our hearts should be full of His laws, understanding, acknowledging and being obedient to them. The must have been important to Him if He believed it was important to write them on/in our hearts. Maybe I'm just weird........but that is how it reads to me. Jesus gave us the Two Greatest and loving God and our neighbor surely cover the vast majority of them, but they aren't the ONLY commandments Jesus gave us.

Communion, Water Baptism, Foot Washing, are but three that He also gave us, and these are specific acts that aren't dismissed as not being needed to be observed due to Him having fulfilled the Law. Go ye into all the world would be another......example........We still have to do that.......fulfilling the will of God.......doing His will........Jesus said that those who do the will of the Father are His brother and sister and mother........they are specific acts/laws/commandments still in effect for today's church in my opinion.

And, by definition, if a person recognizes, acknowledges, and lives obedient to His commandments, they are a Legalist.

Well, at least here on CC.

 

[SarahM777]

Didn't you mean...................... "one CAN'T leave out love in the do's and don'ts? Sounds better Or, reading again, maybe you mean "some" can leave out "love.........."

You're right I did mean CAN'T. (I can proof read it and STILL miss my typos)

See, maybe I read the Scripture different from most when God said He would write His laws on/in our hearts........to me that means our hearts should be full of His laws, understanding, acknowledging and being obedient to them. The must have been important to Him if He believed it was important to write them on/in our hearts. Maybe I'm just weird........but that is how it reads to me. Jesus gave us the Two Greatest and loving God and our neighbor surely cover the vast majority of them, but they aren't the ONLY commandments Jesus gave us.

Communion, Water Baptism, Foot Washing, are but three that He also gave us, and these are specific acts that aren't dismissed as not being needed to be observed due to Him having fulfilled the Law. Go ye into all the world would be another......example........We still have to do that.......fulfilling the will of God.......doing His will........Jesus said that those who do the will of the Father are His brother and sister and mother........they are specific acts/laws/commandments still in effect for today's church in my opinion.

I agree Jesus did give us others,but even at the core of doing those is love.

And, by definition, if a person recognizes, acknowledges, and lives obedient to His commandments, they are a Legalist.

Well, at least here on CC.

It's nothing new.

 

[newlife7]

I do but I would have loved people to point me to the scriptures I have been posting a few years ago so I was keeping that in mind also

Maybe I should have use the word and instead of but to help clear up any confusion. I never thought people might confuse my post and think by me making a personal comment on CC would make me sound like I am trying to teach the commandments of men. A

 

[BS]

Maybe I should have use the word and instead of but to help clear up any confusion. I never thought people might confuse my post and think by me making a personal comment on CC would make me sound like I am trying to teach the commandments of men. A

newlife7 - look brother, your point of view was based on the Words - which are always right and your point was correct itself but the subject we were talking was different. By the way I miss in time that we were talking about different thesis and please forgive me if I insulted you. The main thing is that we all must learn that every one of us knows in part and only when we are get together - then the puzzle will show full picture. So we all must open our eyes and ears and to do all of ours the best to find who the God is and what we must do to serve Him /never the opposite!!!!/
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" 1Cor. 13:9-10

 

[newlife7]

Please always remember that i was just pointing out scripture so that if people needed conformation now or in the future about the scriptures I posted they could see that they were not alone in their belief, but in fact on the right track.

 

[newlife7]

BS don't worry about the insults, I acted pretty strange before I came to the knowledge of the scriptures I posted. I just wanted to share them because they are very life changing scriptures for the better. Much love, newlife7

 

[Elin]

Didn't you mean...................... "one CAN'T leave out love in the do's and don'ts? Sounds better Or, reading again, maybe you mean "some" can leave out "love.........."

Yes, pretty much every one that I listed are covered by the Two Greatest, but that doesn't lessen their value to us.

See, maybe I read the Scripture different from most when God said He would write His laws on/in our hearts........to me that means our hearts should be full of His laws, understanding, acknowledging and being obedient to them. The must have been important to Him if He believed it was important to write them on/in our hearts. Maybe I'm just weird........but that is how it reads to me. Jesus gave us the Two Greatest and loving God and our neighbor surely cover the vast majority of them, but they aren't the ONLY commandments Jesus gave us.

Communion, Water Baptism, Foot Washing, are but three that He also gave us, and these are specific acts that aren't dismissed as not being needed to be observed due to Him having fulfilled the Law. Go ye into all the world would be another......example........We still have to do that.......fulfilling the will of God.......doing His will........Jesus said that those who do the will of the Father are His brother and sister and mother........they are specific acts/laws/commandments still in effect for today's church in my opinion.

And, by definition, if a person recognizes, acknowledges, and lives obedient to His commandments, they are a Legalist.

Well, at least here on CC.

All the spin doesn't negate the NT's view that the law is a religious burden (Ac 15:28) involving burdensome tasks (Mt 23:4).

 

[JesusIsAll]

All the spin doesn't negate the NT's view that the law is a religious burden (Ac 15:28) involving burdensome tasks (Mt 23:4).

But you don't understand. It's just mind boggling, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." Who can understand such horribly complex statements? You even buy a yarmulke and yad on eBay, yet nothing seems to help.

 

[Elin]

Try this example of Paul's on newlife7. It's Bible and has to work well.

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law,
as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;[SUP]
21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Just sayin'

Are you saying we are to keep the law for the sake of law keepers' salvation?

How did you get that out of what I posted to newlife7?
See post 306

These are strictly Paul's words that you are quoting in post 306. I'm not saying anything. I'm sure you can answer your own question cause all you have is Paul's writings here.

So you were not applying Paul's words in any particular way to any particular matter. . .just randomly throwin' 'em out there for trial on newlife7?

That's good to know. . .

 

[Elin]

"I never rejected what I hadn't read at that point". . .what does that mean?

When I was first a believer in Christ Jesus, I knew His word was all true before I had read it all.
It has something to do with faith and trust.

Does what it have to do with faith and trust need to be explained to you?

 

[Elin]

My first comment dealt with which Laws are not valid. As I stated for me, I do not believe they have any effect upon my walk with Christ. This next list is a list of Laws that, if nothing else, are surely a good and Godly way to live. Many of them are covered by the Two Greatest, I realize that, but I wonder how many here are aware of them?

They are provided as FYI ONLY. For consideration and as an example of how some of the 613 Laws go beyond the Old Testament/First Covenant days.

To know there is a God — Ex. 20:2

1. To love Him —Deut. 6:5
2. To fear Him — Deut. 10:20
3. To sanctify His Name — Lev. 22:32
4. Not to profane His Name — Lev. 22:32
5. Not to try the LORD unduly — Deut. 6:16
6. To emulate His ways — Deut. 28:9
7. To cleave to those who know Him — Deut. 10:20
8. To love other Jews — Lev. 19:18
9. To love converts
10. Not to embarrass others — Lev. 19:17
11. Not to oppress the weak — Ex. 22:21
12. Not to speak derogatorily of others — Lev. 19:16
13. Not to take revenge — Lev. 19:18
14. Not to bear a grudge — Lev. 19:18
15. Not to inquire into idolatry — Lev. 19:4
16. Not to follow the whims of your heart or what your eyes see — Num. 15:39
17. Not to blaspheme — Ex. 22:27
18. Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
19. Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
20. Not to make an idol for yourself — Standard->Ex. 20:5 Yemenite->Ex. 20:4
21. Not to make an idol for others — Lev. 19:4
22. Not to listen to a false prophet — Deut. 13:4
23. Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God — Deut. 18:20

Not to perform acts of magic — Deut. 18:10

1. Men must not wear women's clothing — Deut. 22:5
2. Women must not wear men's clothing — Deut. 22:5

To pray every day — Ex. 23:25

If the Holy Spirit is alive and well within a believer, I say they are all applied when called for.

 

[Elin]

1. Anybody who knows evidence must testify in court — Lev. 5:1
2. Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15
3. A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17

Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17

1. Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
2. Mourn for relatives — Lev. 10:19

I hope some here take the time to read through these, and
let me know their thoughts concerning them.

My thoughts concerning them are Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; 1Co 9:20; Eph 2:15;
Heb 7:18-19, 8:13.

 

[Elin]

Good stuff p_r. I posted this as well last year.

the thing that strikes me about these laws is that they're good things. Aside from the physical sacrifices, they sound like things Christianity would be wise in practicing more often.

And you know that the born again do not practice them often enough, how?

 

[just-me]

So you were not applying Paul's words in any particular way to any particular matter. . .just randomly throwin' 'em out there for trial on newlife7?

That's good to know. . .

If we accuse others as being under the law, or, if in fact they are really under the law, why not do as Paul did with those who were under the law. Random? Can't you comprehend the words of Paul in this respect? I'll refine the scripture for you, and focus just on one part.

"to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;" 1 Corinthians 9:20b

We are talking about gaining souls for Christ using the concepts of the law in order to relate to those who we think are under it. That's fulfilling the law of love instead of railing accusatory demeaning, and labeling comments.

"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you." 1 Corinthians 9:22b-23

 

[Elin]

Most of them are covered by the Laws of man, and possibly the Two Greatest Commandments given by Jesus which kinda indicates that we should - at the very least - be aware of them.

But, then, I'm a Legalist I suppose............

That's what the Holy Spirit does in the born again. . .brings them to bear when they are called for.

The Holy Spirit "remembers" them for the believer, and moves his heart accordingly.

Do you trust him to do so?

 

[Elin]

I don't know but I thought it was all pretty simple

Romans 13

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 John 3

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[SUP][b][/SUP] if the world hates you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? [SUP]18 [/SUP]Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: [SUP]20 [/SUP]If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God [SUP]22 [/SUP]and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


Galatians 5

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[SUP][a][/SUP]; rather, serve one another humbly in love.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP][c][/SUP] you want. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions [SUP]21 [/SUP]and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[SUP]22[/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,[SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


Seems pretty simple to me.

Yeah. . .what she said!

 

[Elin]

Sure, as I said.............

Did you read through the list? How many of the Laws found there do we teach our children every day? How many of them are man's Laws? Do we acknowledge them (man's laws) and obey them? Do we fuss about someone saying, "Hey, there's a law against that?" Do we say, "Oh, don't worry, so I lied under oath, I love you, so it's all good?"

Just saying............there are some there that are life lessons to be taught and lived by. Not especially as the Law of Moses, but as pretty good life lessons.

News flash!. . .the Bible is filled with life lessons. . .

 

[seed_time_harvest]

With a new priest there must be a change in the law the book of Hebrews tells us. Therefore I believe that everything Jesus wants us to know about the Old Testament He brought it over to the New.

Some people will say that the same GOD that spoke in the new testament also spoke in the old testament and he never changes.
I wish they would understand the difference.