Which laws are and are not valid?

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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Keep in mind, the gospel was preached to Abraham. The gospel has always been known to those who were men of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is spoken of and prophesied throughout the Writings, the Prophets and the Torah. He fulfills all that is spoken of Him in His first advent.

Always remember,
the first converts until after paul were taught from what you call the Old Testament.
Always remember, the first converts were from God's people, the Jews.
Of course they had been tutored by the law, that's why God gave it to them.
God did not give it to the Gentiles for their tutoring, and the believing Gentiles
had not been tutored by the law.

Jesus being the Word, and He being God, gave us all of theWord. He being our Salvation and Teacher teaches us how to obey.
Yes, he teaches us in the words spoken by him in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers' exhortations and commands to godliness, which are not a few, and all of which writings are the word of God, no exclusions.

I cannot say any other words than the law or the commandments of God ae what
we are to obey after the pattern of Jesus Christ without those who still fear the law thinking this means being under the law.
Those in the New Covenant are not to obey the pattern of obedience given prior to the new covenant,
because the new ovenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant of Promise (of Jesus Christ, and an everlasting possession),
to which had been temporarily added (Gal 3:19) the Mosaic (Old, Sinaitic) Covenant whose basis was the law.

The fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant of Promise, in the New Covenant (Lk 22:20) with its better promises, has rendered the temporarily-added (Gal 3:19) Old (Mosaic, Sinaitic) Covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13), and the Mosaic regulations on which it was based have been set aside (Heb 7:18-19), being replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21) which is the law of God (Mt 22:37-40).

Impressions are no substitute for the spirit and the life which are the NT word of God written (Jn 6:63).

Because of the grace given by Jesus Chrisst from the Cross, we no longer need to fear the curse of the law,
Because of the grace given through faith in Christ Jesus, we no longer are under the law (1Co 9:20) and, therefore, its curse.

for we do not need fear punishment and death for our transgression. This is not licese to sin, as taught through Paul quite clearly.

Again, as taught by Paul, the gift of our faith in Jesus Christ establishes teh law, but not th ecurse of it which has been destroyed.
Yes, it establishes the law on its correct basis:
subject to the law of grace,
never a means of justification/righteousness, which is only through faith by grace,
but only a means of sanctification/righteousness by the obedience of faith through the Holy Spirit.

The law is no longer engraved on stone, it is an intregal part of our new man. If you say the law was our tutor beforew we came to Jesus Chrisst, you are correct, but anyone who is learned of the lw knows teh law, and knowing Jesus Christ gives teh knowledge of using the law lawfully. We are not under the law for sin has not power over us now that we are renewed in Jesus Christ.
"Using the law lawfully" is not a Biblical notion, but a redundancy implying an absurdity.

It is not the same in the OT as "using the law lawfully" in the NT.
In the OT it was ineffectual for godliness/righteousness, given only to reveal sin and its penalty,
in the NT it is part of the commands and exhortation which are the effective means of
sanctification/righteousness through the obedience of faith by the Holy Spirit.

Does all of this mean we may disrespect our parents with impunity? Rob? Steal ? Lie? Covet all we see? Keep the garment we find of our enemy? Seek revenge? Move the landmarks of our neighbors? and so on and so on.
If the law was your turor do you knowit well enough to make reference to it? If not, you never had the tutilege, and your claims to have had the tutor are vapour.
This weaving of doctrine from one's impressions rather than from the word of God written
produces mush rather than NT truth.

The law is the tutor of the Jews, not the Gentiles, because it was not given to the Gentiles.
Romans was written to the Jews in Rome.

Knowing the law after coming to Christ does not take away our salvation,
Would that be a straw man. . .who said it did?
Only using it for righteousness condemns you, showing your faith is counterfeit (1Jn 2:19).

as long as we are aware sin no longer has any power over us, but saying you were convicted by the law before coming to Christ without having had it as your tutor is the worsst of falsehoods, fo rit is lying to onseelf.
Untutored Gentiles do not say they were convicted by the law.

Please stop weaving this pious mush for NT truth.

Teaching aginst the law
That's a nebulous phrase. . .do you mean teaching
there is no law,
to ignore the law,
to disobey the law,
to overthrow the law,
NT believers are not under the law (1Co 9:20),
it has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19),
it has been abolished (Eph 2:15) as a means of righteousness,
it is accomplished in loving God and neighbor (Mt 22:37-40),
etc., etc., etc.?

Impressions are not knowledge of NT doctrine presented in the NT word of God written.

will not send anyone into the lake of fire, but it does diminish their stature in the Kingdom of God..
Which of the above are you referring to as diminishing one's stature?

Impressions weave sloppy doctrine. . .

As for which laws we are to observe, if they do not hang on Love, and God is Love, they may be ignored. If they to no show mercy, they may be ignored. If they require a sacrifice for sin, of course they may be ignored for theere isbut ONE sacrifice for sin, our blessed Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Thhik on this. You are no longer under the law, and breaking a law is not going to send you to hell, but we do not sin deliberately, and what is sin? It is breaking the law, or do you have a different adn new definition of sin?
How about a NT definition of law (Heb 7:18-19), as excluding the Mosaic code of regulations (Eph 2:15).

Praise Jesus Christ, walkin in grace, and fear not the truth. god bless all in Jesus Christ, amen.
Please. . .you are much too intelligent to be trafficking in this mushy porridge,
favoring it over the spirit and the life which are the NT word of God written (Jn 6:63).

Please. . .submit yourself to the study of the NT word of God written that your impressions may be correctly formed.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Brother Jaume,

your precious witness was deeply moving to both of us and may we share that we have experienced
very similar revelations from our heavenly Father; He is like an artist that never paints the same picture twice -
He reminds us that He values and acknowledges each of us on a personal level.
'He works in an infinite amount of ways ..

like the apostle John concludes, John 21:25 -

'And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one,
I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the Books that would be written.' AMEN
Every picture God paints is in accordance with the words spoken by the Son in these last days
(Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, in his NT word written, which are in complete accord with his
OT word written, any seeming discord being due to one's misunderstanding.
 
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newlife7 said:
You know JaimeJ God gives us free will and we are free to chose, but He also said that those who want to be under the law have to obey it fully and that is something only Jesus could do. Make sure you realize that I'm am not saying that we should break the law, I'm am just saying that the law is where sin gets it's power and that it is only when we live by the Spirit that we are able to meet God's requirements.
Think about what you are saying.
It's what Paul said.

First I say, that the law is no more or less than God's spiritual holy and just word. I'm talking what was given, perfect and unadulterated to Israel by God.

So you are insinuating that God issued to Israel instructions to obey and those instructions gave power to disobedience.:confused: I cannot serve a God that would assist us in our own self destruction giving us a tool that gives power what will destroy us. That's totally illogical.
And all heaven knows that God's truth must be according to man's logic.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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There are several non Jewish converts in the NT. Keep in mind there were those who attached themselves to the Jews also. Christ spoke to Jews only until the time designated by the Fasther to go to the nations also. The Apostles were already going to the nations. Remember Cornelius and Peter. There were many more non-jews..

I have not read all of what you have posted here for personal reasons. I would appreciate any question on any of my posts to be answered one at a time, so I may pace myself and budget my time best. Right now I am in the midst of responsibilities that must be attended.

God bless all in Yeshua. Good night from here to there..........
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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One of your quesstion sdeals with diminishing any of the laws. You know Jesus Christ teaches on this, and my paraphrase is just that, a paraphrase.......Read what Jesus teaches on this subject in the New Testament.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Again, interrogation is a bit beyond having an exchange. If one cannot be here to keep the pace of teh posts, then it is most proper to post and wait for your response, ratehr than to flood the page with everything found fro the entire pas many hours or day or so. Forgive that, but Iam not that energetic. God bless you.........
 
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Present the scripture you are referring to that agrees with what Jesus said, and what the law says.
Read romans 7. . .and if Paul said it, then Jesus said it. . .all the word of God is the word of God, in prefect agreement with itself, unless one misunderstands it.

Would that you knew and understood the words of the Son spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers as well as you do the words spoken by former prophets only.
 
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What about the next ?:confused:
Hebrew 6:1-8
1.
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2. Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. And this will we do, if God permit.
4. For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
7. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8. But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

1Timothy
18.
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19. Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20. Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Your point?
 
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I wonderif you found, in the NT, where Jesus indicates our faith is the faith of Abraham?
Did you read where Jesus teaches that not one of the laws will be changed?
Did you readwhere Jesus teaches anyone teaching agains the least of the laws will be least in heaven.
Did you read the beatitudes and the woes? They are from the OT:
Did you read that in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God?
Did you read Psalm 22 describing Jesus Christ on the Cross?
Did you read in Zecharias, chapter 3, about Jesus being given the mission to take away the sin of the world in one day.
Did you read the warning against not obeying th ecommandments of God in Revelation?
Did you read in John that we are bless wh do teh commandments of God.
Did you read the New Testament?
Did you read the Old Testament.


You are attempting to refute those who have and do read both with understanding. Your reasoning is teh reasoning of acultist who has been conditioned to reply the same no matter what reason is demonstrated in your presence. It is no better than being a parrot.
Baloney. . .presenting the Word of God written is never being a parrot. . .unless, of course, it disagrees with your view.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
One of your quesstion sdeals with diminishing any of the laws. You know Jesus Christ teaches on this, and my paraphrase is just that, a paraphrase.......Read what Jesus teaches on this subject in the New Testament.
You must mean like Paul did? That is, as Jesus Christ, through Paul, did?

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

I daresay Paul knew just a tad more about the law, than anybody here. This former Pharisee states you Torah pushers are peddling a yoke of bondage, that is adversarial to grace, the verses already posted which you, apparently, adopt the stance the Bible doesn't say what it says, as usual. It's really annoying, isn't it, Christian liberty from religion toys and grace by faith?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

It's so curious, what part of this you Jew-lites, with your Ellen Whites, your Gentile Jewish fakery or whatever, don't understand, with your little subset of Torah you peddle and drag around like a Peanuts blanket. I can only pray you someday get around to Christianity.

Galatians 5:3-4 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Lots of luck with that, which you also must believe is needed for salvation, a lot of luck.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Baloney. . .presenting the Word of God written is never being a parrot. . .unless, of course, it disagrees with your view.
Their Achilles heel is a blindness to what it means that Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, that only He fulfilled the law, as well as suffering the penalty of the law, on our behalf. They are blind to the cornerstone of the Christian faith, and are stumbling over it. This is not Holy Spirit conviction faith.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Read romans 7. . .and if Paul said it, then Jesus said it. . .all the word of God is the word of God, in prefect agreement with itself, unless one misunderstands it.

Would that you knew and understood the words of the Son spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers as well as you do the words spoken by former prophets only.
Your assumptions. I knew at the beginning, and that's about all I read for years. NT that is. I just never rejected what I hadn't read at that point.
 
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newlife7

Guest
"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

It's so curious, what part of this you Jew-lites, with your Ellen Whites, your Gentile Jewish fakery or whatever, don't understand, with your little subset of Torah you peddle and drag around like a Peanuts blanket. I can only pray you someday get around to Christianity.

Galatians 5:3-4 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Lots of luck with that, which you also must believe is needed for salvation, a lot of luck.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
I'm sorry but name calling even people you think are your enemies is not how the Holy Spirit leads people.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

Agreed, no one is preaching that they, or anybody else, needs to be under the law. Saying someone else is a contrived assumption that give way to unnecessary argument to prove a point that was never endorsed by the accused.
 
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J

JesusIsAll

Guest
I'm sorry but name calling even people you think are your enemies is not how the Holy Spirit leads people.
The centerpiece of doctrines of demons involves legal bondage. You want to sing kumbaya with the damnable, this is your right. It is also my right to call a spade a spade. You must really hate what the Lord Jesus had to say in Matthew 23. People like you could not tolerate Biblical rebuke of liars and false prophets. Being namby pamby, obsequious of deception is not love.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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The centerpiece of doctrines of demons involves legal bondage. You want to sing kumbaya with the damnable, this is your right. It is also my right to call a spade a spade. You must really hate what the Lord Jesus had to say in Matthew 23. People like you could not tolerate Biblical rebuke of liars and false prophets. Being namby pamby, obsequious of deception is not love.
Try this example of Paul's on newlife7. It's Bible and has to work well. Just sayin'
1 Corinthians 9:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
 
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newlife7

Guest
I do but I would have loved people to point me to the scriptures I have been posting a few years ago so I was keeping that in mind also