Who believes that all who die saved go to heaven at death?

[peacefulbeliever]

Who said that any of those things are untrue??? You make the mistake of thinking that God is playing three roles as the Father, Son and Holy Spririt. That is not the teaching of the Bible. The Bible makes clear that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead. Not three Gods. One God in essence, yet three in persons.

Nope that is not what I believe. I believe there is one God and Father, one Lord. God is not 3-in-1. God is God the Father, God is Holy Spirit and gives us the gift of holy spirit when we are born again and there is Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. That is the teaching of the Bible. You are the one that believes God is three persons in one. God playing three roles.

There is a clear chain of command within the Godhead, with the Father sending the Son, the Son being obedient to the Father in coming to die for us, and the Holy Spirit being sent to apply the word of salvation and to open our eyes to all truth.

Yes this is the order - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

The Holy Spirit indwells all saved people and enables us to live for God. But even though there are three persons in the Godhead, they are all God and are to be worshipped as God. They all share the same attributes of deity and are fully divine. When you read of Jesus being begotten, it is speaking of Him becoming a man, not of being created. That's why in 1 John it says "who is the antichrist but he who denies that Jesus came in the flesh". To "come" means he had to have previously existed, as Jesus makes clear in the gospel of John when He prays that the glory He had with the Father before the world existed be restored to Him.

Yes, God in Christ indwells all believers via the gift of holy spirit. When the Bible says Jesus was begotten then it means Jesus was begotten. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:. . . she was found with child of the Holy Spirit . . . .for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 1:18,20) . . .The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke1:35) According to the Bible this is how Jesus Christ came in the flesh. [2) metaph. a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence; b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto]

I'm really starting to see where you're stumbling over this truth. You think that the teaching of the trinity teaches that there are three Gods, and you also think that when it speaks of being begotten (in Jesus' case) that it means being created (which is true as to His human nature, but not His divine nature).
You really should listen to those lectures, I think it would clear up a lot of confusion for you.
God bless.

Tom

[/quote]Yes, Jesus was partaker of flesh and blood and partaker of the divine nature - but also are we partakers of that divine nature -(2 Peter 1:4) That didn't make him God anymore that it makes us God. There is ONE God.

I don't know where you get that I am confused - I am not confused as to who my God, nor who my Saviour, Jesus Christ is. I know whom I have believed. If that makes me a heretic in anyone's eyes then so be it. - I believe what God has given me through the scripture as to the relationship between Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

God bless you.

 

[IMINJC]

REDD.


YOU SAID: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Explain the intent of our Lord when saying this to His disciples in (Mt 16:25,26)...

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

All words underlined are the same word, 'psuche' and refer to the soul. Is there no essence of a man indicated here either?


Redd You can't make your point better than this, anyone who can't see and admit this does not truly love all truth, but they do love what ever doctrine they feel this truth obliterates.

 

[Red33]

You're basing your theology on Greek mythology.

I have study all those passages individually, and many other believers have done the same, and understand them thoroughly and your conclusion is that it is Greek Mythology. I mean this literally, you have a hell of an understanding. It does not matter how persuaded you are in your understanding, you have not studied those scriptures and it is very obvious. You don't dig into them to find out what they are really speaking to and the answers you have given reveal it. Your answers are not honest but a cover for your ignorance and lack of understanding in the Spirit. If you continue to go on that way, the whole body of doctrine you have will be leavened and you will even rationalize and forget that you have been purged from your own sins, never mind what you already have done in rejecting the Deity of Christ. Mark it down, it will happen unless you repent about these things. The funny thing is that you do not know how we have been persuaded of the truth through the Spirit and in growing in grace and knowledge of Christ. You have not been taught by the Spirit in these things and it is needed badly.

 

[Tombo]

Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell/gehenna."

The body is made up of a the soul and the flesh.

The greeks were wrong in maintaing that the spirit is eternal, but we still have two parts to our being, body and soul/spirit.
For the saved, their spirit goes to be with the Lord to await the final resurrection (not several resurrections), but the final resurrection of the just and the unjust.
It's a fact. Read Philippians 1 and 2 Corinthians 5, along with Luke chapter 28 where Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that very day.
God bless.

Tom

 

[Tombo]

Nope that is not what I believe. I believe there is one God and Father, one Lord. God is not 3-in-1. God is God the Father, God is Holy Spirit and gives us the gift of holy spirit when we are born again and there is Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. That is the teaching of the Bible. You are the one that believes God is three persons in one. God playing three roles.

Yes this is the order - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Yes, God in Christ indwells all believers via the gift of holy spirit. When the Bible says Jesus was begotten then it means Jesus was begotten. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:. . . she was found with child of the Holy Spirit . . . .for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 1:18,20) . . .The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke1:35) According to the Bible this is how Jesus Christ came in the flesh. [2) metaph. a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence; b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto]

Yes, Jesus was partaker of flesh and blood and partaker of the divine nature - but also are we partakers of that divine nature -(2 Peter 1:4) That didn't make him God anymore that it makes us God. There is ONE God.

I don't know where you get that I am confused - I am not confused as to who my God, nor who my Saviour, Jesus Christ is. I know whom I have believed. If that makes me a heretic in anyone's eyes then so be it. - I believe what God has given me through the scripture as to the relationship between Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

God bless you.
[/quote]

I will leave you in your blindness and let you worship and serve the creature rather that the creator. I have showed you enough times and you refuse to see. I leave it in God's hands.
I will no longer respond to your posts except to correct any misinformation you may be passing on to other young or confused believers.

Tom

 

[shroom2]

I have study all those passages individually, and many other believers have done the same, and understand them thoroughly and your conclusion is that it is Greek Mythology. I mean this literally, you have a hell of an understanding. It does not matter how persuaded you are in your understanding, you have not studied those scriptures and it is very obvious. You don't dig into them to find out what they are really speaking to and the answers you have given reveal it. Your answers are not honest but a cover for your ignorance and lack of understanding in the Spirit. If you continue to go on that way, the whole body of doctrine you have will be leavened and you will even rationalize and forget that you have been purged from your own sins, never mind what you already have done in rejecting the Deity of Christ. Mark it down, it will happen unless you repent about these things. The funny thing is that you do not know how we have been persuaded of the truth through the Spirit and in growing in grace and knowledge of Christ. You have not been taught by the Spirit in these things and it is needed badly.

Thanks for the admonishment.

I have a very good understanding, I have studied the scripture, the answers I provided are biblical, my answers are honest, I will not forget who my savior is, or who my God is, and I will certainly not mark down anything you say concerning me as having any validity whatsoever.

You sure like to point fingers and issue decrees, Red.

God bless.

 

[Tombo]

I have study all those passages individually, and many other believers have done the same, and understand them thoroughly and your conclusion is that it is Greek Mythology. I mean this literally, you have a hell of an understanding. It does not matter how persuaded you are in your understanding, you have not studied those scriptures and it is very obvious. You don't dig into them to find out what they are really speaking to and the answers you have given reveal it. Your answers are not honest but a cover for your ignorance and lack of understanding in the Spirit. If you continue to go on that way, the whole body of doctrine you have will be leavened and you will even rationalize and forget that you have been purged from your own sins, never mind what you already have done in rejecting the Deity of Christ. Mark it down, it will happen unless you repent about these things. The funny thing is that you do not know how we have been persuaded of the truth through the Spirit and in growing in grace and knowledge of Christ. You have not been taught by the Spirit in these things and it is needed badly.

Red, we just have to hope that the One who opened blind eyes may open thier eyes one day. It is pretty obvious that their minds are set and they will not listen to anything that goes against their contrived conclusions. They haven't learned these things form God's word but have been taught them.
Maybe they will look at the Bible themselves honestly one day and see the plain meaning of the scriptures that they so terribly pervert and twist.
At this point it is futile to answer them anymore. I think we should only answer whenever they assert things that are wrong to other young or confused believers.
God bless. Keep fighting the good fight.

Tom

 

[cfultz3]

There is nothing else I can say.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I will leave you in your blindness and let you worship and serve the creature rather that the creator. I have showed you enough times and you refuse to see. I leave it in God's hands.
I will no longer respond to your posts except to correct any misinformation you may be passing on to other young or confused believers.

Tom

Thank you, Tom. I too have shown enough and I leave it in God's hands. I too have the right to correct any misinformation that I see passed on to others.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Red, we just have to hope that the One who opened blind eyes may open thier eyes one day. It is pretty obvious that their minds are set and they will not listen to anything that goes against their contrived conclusions. They haven't learned these things form God's word but have been taught them.
Maybe they will look at the Bible themselves honestly one day and see the plain meaning of the scriptures that they so terribly pervert and twist

That's one thing that I have seen Trinitarians do and that is they degrade and talk down to others who will not accept the Trinitarian doctrine. I have not degraded anyone or talked down to anyone just presented my position and my reasoning through scripture that I did not twist nor pervert. The Bible clearly states that Jesus Christ is the Son of God not God the Son. . . . .

At this point it is futile to answer them anymore. I think we should only answer whenever they assert things that are wrong to other young or confused believers.
God bless. Keep fighting the good fight.

Tom]

Yes, it is futile. Again, thank you, Tom for your imput.

God bless.

 

[Tombo]

Romans 1:25 "because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever! Amen."


Tom

 

[peacefulbeliever]

That's one thing that I have seen Trinitarians do and that is they degrade and talk down to others who will not accept the Trinitarian doctrine. I have not degraded anyone or talked down to anyone just presented my position and my reasoning through scripture that I did not twist nor pervert. The Bible clearly states that Jesus Christ is the Son of God not God the Son. . . . .

Yes, it is futile. Again, thank you, Tom for your imput.

God bless.

I feel the need to amend this post - Not all Trinitarians belittle, degrade or talk down to others and I apologize for lumping everyone into the same category because there are those that don't.

God bless.

 

[Tombo]

I feel the need to amend this post - Not all Trinitarians belittle, degrade or talk down to others and I apologize for lumping everyone into the same category because there are those that don't.

God bless.

Be careful, brothers and sisters. Deceivers often turn to the sympathy act when they feel their position threatened. They will try to sound innocent, like they don't know why they're being rebuked.
Don't be sucked into it. Hold your ground to the truth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
God bless, my friends.

Tom

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Be careful, brothers and sisters. Deceivers often turn to the sympathy act when they feel their position threatened. They will try to sound innocent, like they don't know why they're being rebuked.
Don't be sucked into it. Hold your ground to the truth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
God bless, my friends.

Tom

I apologized not out of sympathy for myself - I apologized for lumping all Trinitarians into one category. Rebuked? I may have been rebuked in my statement which is why I apologized but I have not been rebuked in any other thing. If you have read any of my post - my disposition as not changed in the least.

God bless.

 

[AnandaHya]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7v6dqxeFs&feature=related[/video]

Jesus spoke in parables and some still do not see or Hear His message.

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

when people say "God bless" do they really mean it ?

or is it some way to mask the anger in their hearts, or bitterness of their thoughts?

what does it mean when people say God bless, what would God bless them with? Is it the same thing as saying "God speed"?

its like people use it as cooks did with hush puppies just to get them to stop yapping.

 

[Tombo]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7v6dqxeFs&feature=related[/video]

Jesus spoke in parables and some still do not see or Hear His message.

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

when people say "God bless" do they really mean it

or is it some way to mask the anger in their hearts, or bitterness of their thoughts?

what does it mean when people say God bless, what would God bless them with? Is it the same thing as saying "God speed"?

Beautiful video, Ananda. I wish I understood spanish. My sister-in-law is from Colombia, I bet she would love this song. I will send it to her.
God bless.

Tom

 

[AnandaHya]

haha

here's an English version of it, though some of it is still in Hebrew:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQWguWNXRDA&feature=related[/video]

 

[Tombo]

haha

here's an English version of it, though some of it is still in Hebrew:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQWguWNXRDA&feature=related[/video]

Mucha gracias.

Tom

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7v6dqxeFs&feature=related[/video]

Jesus spoke in parables and some still do not see or Hear His message.

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

when people say "God bless" do they really mean it ?

or is it some way to mask the anger in their hearts, or bitterness of their thoughts?

what does it mean when people say God bless, what would God bless them with? Is it the same thing as saying "God speed"?

its like people use it as cooks did with hush puppies just to get them to stop yapping.

Actually, I think "God bless" means exactly what it says - not a way to mask anger nor bitterness - to me its just a short way of saying - God bless you in all things. I have no control over what people want to assume it means.

God bless.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7v6dqxeFs&feature=related[/video]

Jesus spoke in parables and some still do not see or Hear His message.

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

when people say "God bless" do they really mean it ?

or is it some way to mask the anger in their hearts, or bitterness of their thoughts?

what does it mean when people say God bless, what would God bless them with? Is it the same thing as saying "God speed"?

its like people use it as cooks did with hush puppies just to get them to stop yapping.

I would just like to address the "God bless" issue.

Actually, I think "God bless" means exactly what it says - not a way to mask anger nor bitterness - to me its just a short way of saying - God bless you in all things. I have no control over what people want to assume it means.

God bless.

Tried to delete sorry double post!!!!!