Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I know the various definitions of world in the lexicons. One of definitions is:

  1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
  2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
  3. the world, the universe
  4. the circle of the earth, the earth
  5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
  6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
  7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
    1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
  8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
    1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2889/kjv/tr/0-1/

The collection of all Gods elect are the world of those verses.
No, they aren't. That's just your "pick and choosy" approach that aligns with your false dogma.

World means the human race. It never means "only the believers". Or "elect" as you would say.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
:rolleyes: just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma

Since [according to you] they're already "having been born of God" (vs 13), they are already "sons of God" and there is no reason for them to "become the sons of God" (vs 12) ... no reason for the Lord Jesus Christ to have to give them anything.

So, again, under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Your erroneous dogma again fails under the full scrutiny of the light of Scripture.
.
Yes only the Born again Sons of God put their Faith in Christ Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Children here paidion means little ones, recently born, they as Christ their Spiritual Father , put their trust in God. The word trust peithō :means to persuade to believe

Its the new born again ones who are persuaded to trust from hearing the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world.
False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect

You stated "Unbelief is a sin that Christ died for, so its never laid to the charge of Gods elect"
Thats absolutely correct, He died for all the sins of Gods elect, including unbelief, thats why they and only they are saved out from it

Your lie is that sin is "never laid to the charge of Gods elect".
Sorry but thats no lie Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The elects sins have been laid to the charge of Christ, He was condemned for and died for them. So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect, unless somebody undo what Christ had suffered and done for them.

If sin is "never laid to the charge of Gods elect", then your so-called "elect" have no need for the Savior. There is nothing from which your so-called "elect" must be redeemed.
Thats one of the most unintelligent comments I have read, because its because the elects sins have been charged to Christ their Saviour and He died for them, having satisfied Gods Justice for them, that they will never be recharged on the elect duh !

We know that before the foundation of the world, the plan of redemption was put in place because God, in His omniscience, knew that Adam and Eve would sin.
Eph 1:4 says nothing about a plan being put in place, but an activity of God the Father took place, He chose His People for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. He didnt plan it, He actually did it.

We also know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect of God.
Correct, slain for His Sheep whose sins had been charged to Him from the foundation of the world. Those who are the ones He foreknew, foreloved and wrote there names in the Lambs book of life, to be the beneficiaries of His death.

From John 3:16, we learn that WHOSEOVER believeth in Him has everlasting life.

God chose faith IN the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Elect of God ... that is what is chosen before the foundation of the world. WHOSOEVER believeth.

Under your rendering, God "chose" Johnny but not Mary, as if eenie-meenie-miney-mo, Johnny yes, Mary no. That is not God's plan.
The ones believing are the regenerated elect, only the regenerate have a spiritual will and Faith given to them to believe.

Under your rendering, God "chose" Johnny but not Mary, as if eenie-meenie-miney-mo, Johnny yes, Mary no. That is not God's plan.
Yes it is Gods purpose, He chooses who will be His elect and receive Salvation, and who doesnt and will die in their sins. Rom 9:11-14


11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

And people like you and myself before God converted me, think God is unfair, unrighteous in How He elects some and hates the rest and leaves them in their sins to perish in the wrath of God.

Those who reject? God provided to them all that is needed to come to faith, but because they reject the Elect, God has chosen to not choose those who reject.
All by nature reject God and His Truth, thats why He regenerates some and gives them a willing heart to believe and obey and submit to Him.

Again you take your focus off of the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

God's purpose and God's grace is wholly by, in, through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have all God's purpose and grace because God's purpose and grace is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Contrary, the focus is on Christ Jesus, because the elect who were chosen in Him, were given purpose and grace in Him before the world began, and thats why they are saved, regenerated and called in time ! 2 Tim 19

The rest of mankind is outside of the elect one Christ Jesus

Again all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have all God's purpose and grace because God's purpose and grace is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
All who believe are the regenerate elect, all who dot believe are the non elect Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep[Elect], as I said unto you.

Elect and Sheep are the same ones, and if you notice they are Sheep/Elect before they believe and is the reason why they believe, others who dont never believe is because they were never Gods Sheep/elect in the first place !

Quit thinking that you're the end all/be all because you believe (if you do believe). God's purpose and grace is not about you. God's purpose and grace is entirely encapsulated in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Elect of God.
Im nothing, save hopefully a vessel of mercy, merely testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace which unfortunately you appear to oppose vehemently !
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Someone posted the truth:
"The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world."
False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect
If true, prove it with Scripture that clearly says that Christ's death was limited to a particular group.

Im nothing, save hopefully a vessel of mercy, merely testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace which unfortunately you appear to oppose vehemently !
Why do you oppose vehemently the truth that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world (Jn 4:42) and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29)?

And that "whosoever believes has eternal life and shall never perish".
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

I have not "usurp[ed] faith from its true meaning".
Yes you have. You make it a human quality in the natural man. Thats not what it is sorry !

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance
[Greek hypostasis = standing under, foundation] of things hoped for ...
I know this

And you continuing to insist that faith = works is simply you rejecting the truth of God's Word that faith ≠ works.
Yes your understanding of faith is a human work, which puts it into the Law category Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

You put yourself under law and anyone else who believes like you
The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave even if no one believed.

The Lord Jesus Christ would still have been resurrected from the grave even if all descendants of Adam rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and ended up cast into the lake of fire.

The grave could not, under any circumstances, hold Him it was not possible that he should be holden of it (Acts 2:24).
.
Your point doesnt make no sense. The resurrection of Christ from the dead is evidence that those elect for whom He died are Justified and forgiven of their sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

You didn't judge what a person says about salvation.
Ive judged what you have said about it, and its error and false teaching !

Who are you to judge the heart of anyone?
I never said anything about judging anyones heart. I judge what comes out your mouth about salvation. But understand this Matt 12:34

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

I bring everything you submit to the Word of God and let the Word of God shed its light on your claims/assertions.
You missing the point, you still making a judgment. So stop being a hypocrite


nope ... that's all your doing with your "human faith" fallacy, even though you have been shown in Scripture that there is only one faith. You obliviously continue on with your fallacy in order to support your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where there is error, you are to let go of the error.
Yep you have taken what is a Gift from God and His Grace, and made it a work, a quality in the flesh of the natural man. You have debased faith !

you are to understand Romans 5:9 in light of what you have read in Romans 5:1.

When we read Scripture, we are to keep in mind what we have read in the previous verses/chapters/books in order to better comprehend verses which follow.

When we read Romans 5:9, we are to keep in mind what we read in Romans 5:1.

When we read Romans 5:1, we are to keep in mind what we read in Romans 4.
I have patiently explained that to you, you flat out have denied Justification before God solely by the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9. You need your human faith. Okay you got it, see ya at the Judgment !

wrong ... Faith in Vs 1 receives as a testimony the Truth of Romans 4.
Right Faith receives the testimony of Rom 4:25 that Christ was raised for our Justification

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Thats proof that the elect who Christ died for were Justified before God by Christs blood. Yet you vehemently deny it. You deny the witness of the resurrection, thats serious my friend.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

Romans 4:24-5:1 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith,
I have explained this passage to you numerous times, you cant understand it

:rolleyes:

Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


You have rejected Justification by the blood of Christ alone Rom 5:9


You add works to justification.
nope ... Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
You flat out deny Rom 4:5 and add your works into the equation !

The rest of your post is garbage
 
Jun 5, 2020
941
169
43
renewed



False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect



Thats absolutely correct, He died for all the sins of Gods elect, including unbelief, thats why they and only they are saved out from it



Sorry but thats no lie Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The elects sins have been laid to the charge of Christ, He was condemned for and died for them. So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect, unless somebody undo what Christ had suffered and done for them.



Thats one of the most unintelligent comments I have read, because its because the elects sins have been charged to Christ their Saviour and He died for them, having satisfied Gods Justice for them, that they will never be recharged on the elect duh !



Eph 1:4 says nothing about a plan being put in place, but an activity of God the Father took place, He chose His People for Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. He didnt plan it, He actually did it.



Correct, slain for His Sheep whose sins had been charged to Him from the foundation of the world. Those who are the ones He foreknew, foreloved and wrote there names in the Lambs book of life, to be the beneficiaries of His death.



The ones believing are the regenerated elect, only the regenerate have a spiritual will and Faith given to them to believe.



Yes it is Gods purpose, He chooses who will be His elect and receive Salvation, and who doesnt and will die in their sins. Rom 9:11-14


11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

And people like you and myself before God converted me, think God is unfair, unrighteous in How He elects some and hates the rest and leaves them in their sins to perish in the wrath of God.



All by nature reject God and His Truth, thats why He regenerates some and gives them a willing heart to believe and obey and submit to Him.



Contrary, the focus is on Christ Jesus, because the elect who were chosen in Him, were given purpose and grace in Him before the world began, and thats why they are saved, regenerated and called in time ! 2 Tim 19

The rest of mankind is outside of the elect one Christ Jesus

All who believe are the regenerate elect, all who dot believe are the non elect Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep[Elect], as I said unto you.

Elect and Sheep are the same ones, and if you notice they are Sheep/Elect before they believe and is the reason why they believe, others who dont never believe is because they were never Gods Sheep/elect in the first place !



Im nothing, save hopefully a vessel of mercy, merely testifying to the Gospel of Gods Grace which unfortunately you appear to oppose vehemently !
I didn't read all your post. I'll just reply to your first statement: False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect.

That simply isn't true. Jesus death paid the price for all sin for all time. There isn't a single person that Jesus didn't die for. John 3:16-17, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
I didn't read all your post. I'll just reply to your first statement: False teaching. Jesus died exclusively for the seed of Abraham, His Sheep, or Gods elect.

That simply isn't true. Jesus death paid the price for all sin for all time. There isn't a single person that Jesus didn't die for. John 3:16-17, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
Sorry but it is true. What you are saying isn't true.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

Romans 4:24-5:1 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith,

When you reject the truth of Scripture it is because you suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

You hold to your erroneous dogma and hold it above Scripture, the Word of God.
To be Justified by Faith in Rom 5:1 is merely saying to be Justified by Christ, by His Blood, Christ and His Blood is the object of believing Faith, hence in Vs 9 it reads Now being Justified by His Blood, because thats the object of God given Faith Rom 5:1,9

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

How does one know they are Justified by His Blood ? By Faith

Now unfortunate for you, you deny what Faith makes known to be True.
 
Jun 5, 2020
941
169
43
Sorry but it is true. What you are saying isn't true.
Simply your opinion. I stand by what I wrote because the Bible makes it clear. Jesus' death means salvation for everyone. Who do you think is excluded?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed said
Since, according to you, the all men of Romans 5:18 applies only to "the Church, the Body of Christ", then only "the Church, the Body of Christ" was/is under judgment to condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Yep Rom 5:18 is referring to the same group of the many in Rom 5:19 and in Rom 8:33 we are told who God Justifies:

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Justifieth here of the elect, is the same Justification of life in Rom 5:18

Plus the all men in Rom 5:18 are all Justified according to the verse. The word Justification dikaiōsis :

  1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
  2. abjuring to be righteous, justification
So you should know everybody/all without exception cannot be meant here unless you believe in universalism which is another false teaching.

Has God declared all without exception free from guilt and acceptable to Him ? Does He abjure all without exception to be righteous ? Nope, only the many as in Vs 19 clarifies Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And this many is the Church, His Body ! So it is in Vs 18
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
In vs 25, you bolded "propitiation" but you did not bold "through faith in His blood".
You dont understand that verse. Whoever Christ died for, shed His Blood for, His Blood propitiated God on their behalf, to such God gives them the Gift of Faith to know and receive it. In fact, the only ones Christ propitiated God for, are the ones who because of that, are given the gift of faith. So 1 Jn 2:2 is speaking of the whole world of believers, from all people and from all time.

But you cant and dont understand these things, maybe someone else may understand it.

You think faith is mans contribution to get himself saved. Thats works !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

Once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly".
Thats false. A person is Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9 which was shed for them in 33 ad, now when a person who Christ blood Justified in 33 ad is born a ungodly sinner say in 1952, they are born a ungodly sinner already Justified in the court of heaven by Christs blood. Do you believe that ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

You claim that the "elect" are justified before their physical birth
Yep since Christ has died for them before their physical birth, for that's what Justified them before Gods awesome tribunal But you deny that the blood of Christ had any such justifying effect at the tribunal of God, not until the sinner exercises his or her faith. So in essence you say the exercising of a persons faith had more justifying effect before God than Jesus blood did. Which is blasphemous to say the least.

Since, according to you, before you were born you were justified,
Im not here to call attention on me, so quit lying, Im here to call attention to the Justifying blood of Christ, which you vehemently deny. If Im elect, its only by the mercy and grace of God.

then according to Scripture you were not "ungodly" from birth
There you go lying on me again. All the elect are born ungodly sinners, just they are born Justified ungodly sinners, hence Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

They are born Justified ungodly sinners because Christs blood which was shed for them before they were born, Justified them before God.

That is nothing but a lie from the pit.
Your lying on me and purposely misrepresenting what I have stated is from the pits of hell my friend. Very dishonest.

There is only One Who was not "ungodly" from birth ... and that is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. You are claiming a status that belongs only to Him.
Again mre lies and misrepresentation, I never said sinners including myself, werent born ungodly, all of us are born ungodly, save Christ, but the elect who are born ungodly are yet Justified because of Christs blood shed for them. So get it right or continue in your diabolical lies and misrepresentations.

brightfame52 ... from birth you are/were ungodly and until you are born again
Amen the elect are ungodly until they are born again. But because of Christs blood shed for them before they were born again, they were Justified by it before they were born again, hence Justified while being ungodly.

Once a person is born again, he/she is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13) .
False once a born again person believes, they are sealed with the Spirit of promise !

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Correct after the heard, thats implying they were spiritually alive when they heard spiritually the word of truth. Jesus said one who is of the truth hearth His voice Jn 18:37

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Now to be of the Truth one must be born again

So by the fact that those Ephesians heard the word of truth, evidences they were already born again in order to hear.

you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated, born again) ... according to Scripture, no longer ungodly.
One was no longer ungodly after they were born again, then they become believers. But they were Justified before God by Christs blood, while ungodly, while unregenerate, while being unbelievers.

Now if you going to discuss or dispute what I have said, do it with integrity and honesty please ! 759
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
Simply your opinion. I stand by what I wrote because the Bible makes it clear. Jesus' death means salvation for everyone. Who do you think is excluded?
What you say is only your opinion, everyone has one. Jesus death means Salvation to the saved. The excluded are the unsaved, duh
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
renewed

Until you acknowledge that Rom 4:5 clearly states that faith ≠ works, you will not "properly understand" it.
You deny Rom 4:5 and teach the very opposite.

those who are "now believing in Jesus" ... what do they believe concerning Jesus ???
That they were Justified/forgiven by His Blood ! Rom 5:9


. it appears you are again(still) suggesting that a person must be born again in order to believe Scripture by which a person is born again.


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Yes you must be born again to believe in Jesus, and those for whom He died, His Sheep, will be given the gift of believing for His sake Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Now when it says it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on Him, it means , it was given on the account of His Meritorious death, and His Intercession, that why some are graciously favored to believe in Jesus !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
Maybe I'm a butinsky here BUT just had to comment seeing this started on my birthday in 2021 and still going and I being kind of new to all this, happened to listen to a sermon by Charles Spurgeon on 1 August of this year called "the believers challenge" based on Rom.8:34. I still have a hard time understanding most of the Bible but when I listen to Spurgeon's sermons they make sense to me. Is there some serious flaw with the way Spurgeon preached?
For the most part Spurgeon is sound in Salvation, seems to be inconsistent at times, but I value much of what he says.
 
P

persistent

Guest
For the most part Spurgeon is sound in Salvation, seems to be inconsistent at times, but I value much of what he says.
Thanks for that comment. It is the "SERIOUS" inconsistencies that mess us up? I am getting better at catching them and then I also know that scripture tells us to be always sober minded and vigilant and satan or the devil is as a roaring lion looking to devour. And also that satan or the devil can seem to be an angel of light, I think. Now the roaring lion seems to me should be readily apparent since it is roaring but the angel of light may be insidious. I'll pray about it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,263
548
113
God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !3

God Justifieth the Ungodly ! Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now when are those being Justified as the Ungodly ? Is it before they believe or have Faith in Christ ? The answer is Yes, for while they are being ungodly sinners, Christ has died for them Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

His death Justified them as Ungodly , when Ungodly !

Remember Paul says after saying it is God that Justifieth in Rom 8:33, in Vs 34 He said it was because Christ died Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

When Christ died, it Justified the Ungodly He died for !

Not only that, Belief of the Truth is an act of godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

So if He Justified them when they believed, He Justified them while they were acting Godly, which overthrows the very foundation of the Truth of Rom 4:5 that He Justifies the Ungodly !

Regarding Rom 5:6-8 its plain from the passage that Christ died for them while being ungodly, and again that's why they were Justified, because Christ died for them, and by that fact alone, they shall be made Righteous, or made Just, which is the same as Justified, So those Christ died for are made righteous / Justified while they are ungodly sinners in unbelief, to the credit of Christ's Death and God's Grace ! 14