Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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renewed
Those who believe give evidence that righteousness has been imputed. Everyone Christ died for has His righteousness imputed 2 Cor 5:21 and as an evidence of that fact, they will be given Faith to believe. Its the Just that shall live by Faith.
The if isnt a conditional if but an evidential if.
Again Christ rose again for their Justification, the resurrection gives evidence Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
So if Christ was raised again for our Justification, it will be evidenced when we believe.
Those who believe give evidence that righteousness has been imputed. Everyone Christ died for has His righteousness imputed 2 Cor 5:21 and as an evidence of that fact, they will be given Faith to believe. Its the Just that shall live by Faith.
The if isnt a conditional if but an evidential if.
Again Christ rose again for their Justification, the resurrection gives evidence Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
So if Christ was raised again for our Justification, it will be evidenced when we believe.
renew
more of your continual taking verses out of context in order to support a "tradition".
According to 1 Corinthians 2:7, Paul is no longer speaking of the gospel in vss 13-14. In 1 Corinthians 2:7, Paul begins to speak of the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom. These are deeper spiritual truths than the gospel of Christ.
Again, the Natural man cannot receive the thigs of the Spirit of God, nor understand them 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Therefore he cannot believe in Christ through the Gospel.
more of your continual taking verses out of context in order to support a "tradition".According to 1 Corinthians 2:7, Paul is no longer speaking of the gospel in vss 13-14. In 1 Corinthians 2:7, Paul begins to speak of the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom. These are deeper spiritual truths than the gospel of Christ.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Therefore he cannot believe in Christ through the Gospel.
I already took time to explain that to you. Again, those who believe or even shall believe, had righteousness imputed to them. The word if is a evidential if, believing gives evidence of having righteousness imputed, and there were future believers at the time Paul wrote the epistle, that shall believe, evidencing that righteousness has been imputed.
Vs 25 makes it clear that those whom Christ died for, He was raised for [because of] their Justification, which means imputed righteousness. So evidently righteousness was already imputed to them, else Christs resurrection isnt really declarative of their Justification. So Im not going to keep explaining this over and over and over, and you just evade it.
Vs 25 makes it clear that those whom Christ died for, He was raised for [because of] their Justification, which means imputed righteousness. So evidently righteousness was already imputed to them, else Christs resurrection isnt really declarative of their Justification. So Im not going to keep explaining this over and over and over, and you just evade it.
renew
1 Cor 2:14 relates to the Gospel Paul preached spoke to them 1 Cor 2:1-2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
So it all had to do with Christ and Him crucified, do you deny thats the Gospel ?
1 Cor 2:14 relates to the Gospel Paul preached spoke to them 1 Cor 2:1-2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
So it all had to do with Christ and Him crucified, do you deny thats the Gospel ?
renewed
Correct, the natural man, unregenerate man cannot understand the Gospel 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Gospel is foolishness to the natural man 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Correct, the natural man, unregenerate man cannot understand the Gospel 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Gospel is foolishness to the natural man 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
No. The "things of the Spirit" are those doctrines that result in spiritual growth. Only believers are able to understand these doctrines.
The gospel is an issue of trusting in the promise of savlation through Christ. It is NOT a "spiritual thing".
That proves they UNDERSTAND IT. What is seen (understood) as foolish will be rejected, rather than believed.
They perish because they don't believe the gospel message.
They are NOT perishing because they can't understand the gospel.
In order to reject a proposition, one MUST be able to understand it.
Calvinism doesn't use any common sense when reading Scripture.
The gospel is an issue of trusting in the promise of savlation through Christ. It is NOT a "spiritual thing".
That proves they UNDERSTAND IT. What is seen (understood) as foolish will be rejected, rather than believed.
They perish because they don't believe the gospel message.
They are NOT perishing because they can't understand the gospel.
In order to reject a proposition, one MUST be able to understand it.
Calvinism doesn't use any common sense when reading Scripture.
You are completely ignorant of the Scriptural meaning of "antichrist". According to Scripture, "antichrist" is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and one who who denies the Father and the Son:
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
and/or denies that Jesus Christ came into the world in the flesh:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
As to your claim that "Faith, which pleases God Heb 11:6 is a condition for man to do, to act before God does Justify him". That is what you believe I believe. However, that is not what I believe, no matter how vociferously you claim that is what I believe.
I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world as stated in Scripture (John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2).
I also believe God created, formed, made mankind and included faith within all mankind. When mankind misutilizes the faith God placed inherently within mankind and believes (has faith) in a lie, mankind rejects God.
"those for whom Christ died"
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The word "believeth" is also in the present tense.
The verse states that the person believes on Him [God] who justifies the ungodly. The person knows he/she is ungodly and yet believes in the God Who justifies him/her and his/her faith is counted for righteousness.
Mankind is wholly undeserving of God's mercy, grace, lovingkindness. We all know this. And yet, God, in His great mercy, grace, lovingkindness justifies that undeserving person when he/she believes on Him [God]who justifies the ungodly.
there you go again ... trying to make Scripture align with your erroneous dogma. What a farce!
Bring your erroneous dogma into alignment with Scripture. Do not try to make Scripture align with your dogma.
The verse clearly states that faith is not works. Quit manipulating Scripture ... believe (have faith) in the Author of Scripture ...
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1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
and/or denies that Jesus Christ came into the world in the flesh:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
As to your claim that "Faith, which pleases God Heb 11:6 is a condition for man to do, to act before God does Justify him". That is what you believe I believe. However, that is not what I believe, no matter how vociferously you claim that is what I believe.
I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world as stated in Scripture (John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2).
I also believe God created, formed, made mankind and included faith within all mankind. When mankind misutilizes the faith God placed inherently within mankind and believes (has faith) in a lie, mankind rejects God.
"those for whom Christ died"
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The word "believeth" is also in the present tense.
The verse states that the person believes on Him [God] who justifies the ungodly. The person knows he/she is ungodly and yet believes in the God Who justifies him/her and his/her faith is counted for righteousness.
Mankind is wholly undeserving of God's mercy, grace, lovingkindness. We all know this. And yet, God, in His great mercy, grace, lovingkindness justifies that undeserving person when he/she believes on Him [God]who justifies the ungodly.
there you go again ... trying to make Scripture align with your erroneous dogma. What a farce!Bring your erroneous dogma into alignment with Scripture. Do not try to make Scripture align with your dogma.
The verse clearly states that faith is not works. Quit manipulating Scripture ... believe (have faith) in the Author of Scripture ...
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Nope. I just read the Scriptures and believe what the Author of Scripture has written:
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Since righteousness is through faith (vs 22) and since we are justified freely by God's grace (vs 24), then it is error on your part to conclude faith is a "work" on the part of man.
I know that is your position. However, if "Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" and a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22", you've got a person born again in order to have the "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" which allows the person to believe the gospel in order to be born again. You've got the cart before the horse.
And it's so interesting you won't answer the question I have asked you a couple of times now ...
love is the fruit of the Spirit as well. Are you saying that natural man cannot love because love is the fruit of the Spirit?
What about temperance (self control)? No natural men have self control?
How about patience? No natural men are patient?
Or is it only faith that you claim is withheld from mankind ... or given only to the "elect" so that the "elect" is born again and has fruit of the Spirit so he/she can believe the gospel by which he/she is born again ?
Why won't you answer the questions, brightfame52???
Nope ... that is just you projecting on to me what you believe I do.
You should just believe Scripture and allow God reveal to you how and why faith is not works on the part of mankind.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Since righteousness is through faith (vs 22) and since we are justified freely by God's grace (vs 24), then it is error on your part to conclude faith is a "work" on the part of man.
I know that is your position. However, if "Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" and a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22", you've got a person born again in order to have the "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" which allows the person to believe the gospel in order to be born again. You've got the cart before the horse.
And it's so interesting you won't answer the question I have asked you a couple of times now ...
love is the fruit of the Spirit as well. Are you saying that natural man cannot love because love is the fruit of the Spirit?
What about temperance (self control)? No natural men have self control?
How about patience? No natural men are patient?
Or is it only faith that you claim is withheld from mankind ... or given only to the "elect" so that the "elect" is born again and has fruit of the Spirit so he/she can believe the gospel by which he/she is born again ?
Why won't you answer the questions, brightfame52???
Nope ... that is just you projecting on to me what you believe I do.
You should just believe Scripture and allow God reveal to you how and why faith is not works on the part of mankind.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
Read the verse just as the Author of Scripture wrote it. Do not attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, rid yourself of your dogma.
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Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
Read the verse just as the Author of Scripture wrote it. Do not attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, rid yourself of your dogma.
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I am not the one who is manipulating Romans 1:16.
Here is your rendering of the verse:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation believing to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Again ... just read the verse as written ... just as the Author of Scripture intended:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Quit manipulating the verse to conform to your erroneous dogma.
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Here is your rendering of the verse:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation believing to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Again ... just read the verse as written ... just as the Author of Scripture intended:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Quit manipulating the verse to conform to your erroneous dogma.
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