Who or what is the third horseman in Revelations?

[Timeline]

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matt 5:18


After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, "I am thirsty." John 19:28



But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law Galatians 5:18


It is my opinion that we have to go back to the scriptures and rethink everything that we have been taught before we can understand what the Bible is telling us. While admit that I have not reached a final verdict, I currently believe that the seven mountains represent men from the old testament or the covenants that God made through them. The covenants themselves were not flawed - we are.

I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live; Ezekiel 20:25


Revelation, in my opinion, was given more as an explanation of what was happening (what Jesus (and perhaps the apostles) has accomplished). The harlot was the old Jerusalem riding on the beast that Israel/Judah had become. You will notice that Revelation quickly shows the establishment of the New Jerusalem after the harlot is destroyed. The New Jerusalem is the restoration of Israel as the children of the promise - no longer limited to blood descendants of Jacob.


As for what any of the horsemen represent, I haven't settled on anything yet, but I am confident that the seals have been broken for a long time. I will not go so far as to say that nothing in Revelation doesn't repeat; And I certainly believe that things established in Revelation are ongoing.

The mark of the beast does not have anything to do with chips or credit cards or social security cards.

FYI: I do still be that salvation is available to all who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. And I don't think that you must understand prophecy to be saved.

 

[Timeline]

[ The Song of Moses and Israel ] Then Moses and the sons of Israel sang this song to the Lord, and said, “I will sing to the Lord, for He is highly exalted; The horse and its rider He has hurled into the sea. Exodus 15:1

“When she lifts herself on high, She laughs at the horse and his rider. Job 39:18

At Your rebuke, O God of Jacob, Both rider and horse were cast into a dead sleep. Psalms 76:6

“Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs.” And one said, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon; And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground.” Isaiah 21:9

“With you I shatter the horse and his rider, And with you I shatter the chariot and its rider, Jeremiah 51:21

I will overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations; and I will overthrow the chariots and their riders, and the horses and their riders will go down, everyone by the sword of another.’ Haggai 2:22

“They will be as mighty men, Treading down the enemy in the mire of the streets in battle; And they will fight, for the Lord will be with them; And the riders on horses will be put to shame. Zechariah 10:5


In that day,” declares the Lord, “I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. Zechariah 12:4



Yeah, I don't know if it helps, but here are some verses from the OT that reference "horse and rider".

 

[prove-all]

black horse is famine

 

[popeye]

Okay lots of good responses so far, so if say the white horse is the antichrist then there is an issue because the antichrist has not yet been revealed and the red horse is war and rumors of war right? the third is famine and the fourth is death I believe.
But other than the antichrist himself all these horsemen appear to have been around since before Jesus days, so other than the antichrist we could assume that this part of revelation is complete. But no one really knows who the antichrist is, we have ideas of who he is but he has not revealed himself and there certainly hasn't been a seven year peace treaty in which he would break yet. But as Valiant pointed out jesus spoke of these things to his generation and in the new testament after Pentecost they spoke often of always being ready always watching and spoke often of the end times as if it could happen in their life times.

so is this all something that was specifically meant for later generations and the apostles and fellow believers were wrong to be ready and to watch? Because if it is only to happen for this generation and the first seal hasn't even been opened then why were they preparing for this?

When the horsemen are released they are not necessarily revealed instantly.

The AC,White horseman,begins discreetly.

Thus,the red horseman and the white one could be here now.


Concerning the generations that have not seen his coming but waited and watched.
That's what happens in tarrying.
Mat 25 " but the groom tarried...."
2k years is only 2of heavens days.

That makes us in the 3rd day.

But the virgins kept waiting.

(anything but pretrib rapture completely corrupts this dynamic)

So that is why they watched and waited in the N.T.
It is God's pattern to hold us in a proper attitude and hope.

 

[DP]

black horse is famine

View attachment 140481

That chart actually has some interpretations more in common with Hal Lindsay's books than it does with the actual Biblical meanings of allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.

 

[jb]

As John said there are many antichrists. The white horse has in mind those many antichrists starting with the false Messiahs and prophets in 1st century AD.

You've been smoking those funny smelling "cigarettes" again, with a statement like this! lol

 

[Stonemason]

You've been smoking those funny smelling "cigarettes" again, with a statement like this! lol

There is a "spirit of antichrist" and it is denial of Christ's divinity. All who deny Christ's divinity are "with" the spirit of antichrist.

 

[Is]

No. I'm likening "a doomsday hoax" to a popular interpretation of scripture. The pastors and other spiritual leaders who interpret the scripture to "rapture scenario" or other "extreme renditions of dispensationalism", "are Mary Bateman". People who "pass the egg" which had been "inserted into their oviducts" are the hen. The hen delivers the eggs, and of course, as a bird, has no capacity to the ramification of the message, actually delivers the message in a preferable fashion, because it does not, can not, hearken the immediacy and panic delivered to biblical allusion.

Christ is coming, that to me, as you, is, no doubt, a fact. That, those words, is the prophecy. The rest of the message is convoluted by various understandings, promoting undue attention and proposed relevance to concurrence of surrounding circumstances. These contrived understandings are the "inserted manner" in which people are being manipulated in the name of the faith, and that is intrinsically wrong and leads to much worse understandings.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844". This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

It's not the words in scripture with which I take issue at all, it's how people use them. I firmly believe we should "nip these" understandings "in the bud", although I admit for many, it may be too late.

Stop trying to compare a helpless chicken that was the victim of an idiotic doomsday hoax to to the child of God that knows their scripture and church history.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

As John said there are many antichrists. The white horse has in mind those many antichrists starting with the false Messiahs and prophets in 1st century AD.

You've been smoking those funny smelling "cigarettes" again, with a statement like this! lol

Don't mock what you clearly do not understand. The white horseman represents false religion through the centuries. The red horseman war through the centuries. The black horseman famine through the centuries. The pale horseman catastrophe through the centuries. All in line with Jesus teaching in Matt 24.5 ff

 

[Stonemason]

Stop trying to compare a helpless chicken that was the victim of an idiotic doomsday hoax to to the child of God that knows their scripture and church history.

I will not "stop". One is as much an "idiotic doomsday hoax" as the next, the latter simply includes more convoluted interpretation of scripture, away from the scripture's intent. God's word was never meant to be used in this fashion.

I can cite example after example how its bad practice and you will say all of those were wrong, but yours is somehow right? Is this becoming a "broken watch is right twice a day thing"?

 

[jb]

The white horseman represents false religion through the centuries. The red horseman war through the centuries. The black horseman famine through the centuries. The pale horseman catastrophe through the centuries. All in line with Jesus teaching in Matt 24.5 ff

...you clearly do not understand...

Wisdom is supposed to come with age, unfortunately you seem to be the exception to the rule!

Once you throw away a literal interpretation of Scripture, you become "the blind leading the blind" and this is exactly what you have done with the book of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ!" Matt 15v 1-14 (esp. v14)

You also seem to think absolutely nothing of Our Lord's warnings in Rev 22v18,19, be assured the lies that you (or anybody else) teach about the Revelation of Jesus Christ will be required of you (them)!

 

[Stonemason]

blah blah blah

If you think he's "smoking something" or "without wisdom", instead of blanketly denying his words, reply with evidentiary substance, at least "while" you're insulting him. I know I countered your idea with the very real scriptural implication there is "more than one representative of antichrist", and still you're not interested in responding to this.

You can do better. Try harder.

 

[Stonemason]

Once you throw away a literal interpretation of Scripture, you become "the blind leading the blind" ...

Matthew 13:34-35 is very applicable.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. [SUP]35 [/SUP]So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

As a matter of fact, the scripture you cited, Matthew 15 1-14 is followed by Matthew 15:15 Peter says, "explain this parable to us". You, sir, are not only insulting people, you're intentionally skewing scripture from its intent and you're using it in injurious manner.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

The white horseman represents false religion through the centuries. The red horseman war through the centuries. The black horseman famine through the centuries. The pale horseman catastrophe through the centuries. All in line with Jesus teaching in Matt 24.5 ff

Wisdom is supposed to come with age, unfortunately you seem to be the exception to the rule!

LOL LOL LOL

Once you throw away a literal interpretation of Scripture, you become "the blind leading the blind" and this is exactly what you have done with the book of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ!" Matt 15v 1-14 (esp. v14)

Firstly the Book of Revelation BEGAN by saying it was a book of signs. Literally 'He sent and showed it by signs to His servant John'.

The four horsemen are clearly indicators of history unfolding itself LITERALLY. So I prefer my position to yours. What you need to remember is that Revelation is an eastern book, like the prophets, and it thus teaches by pictures and symbols.

You also seem to think absolutely nothing of Our Lord's warnings in Rev 22v18,19, be assured the lies that you (or anybody else) teach about the Revelation of Jesus Christ will be required of you (them)!

That's not what the Holy Spirit tells me

 

[Is]

No. I'm likening "a doomsday hoax" to a popular interpretation of scripture. The pastors and other spiritual leaders who interpret the scripture to "rapture scenario" or other "extreme renditions of dispensationalism", "are Mary Bateman". People who "pass the egg" which had been "inserted into their oviducts" are the hen. The hen delivers the eggs, and of course, as a bird, has no capacity to the ramification of the message, actually delivers the message in a preferable fashion, because it does not, can not, hearken the immediacy and panic delivered to biblical allusion.

Christ is coming, that to me, as you, is, no doubt, a fact. That, those words, is the prophecy. The rest of the message is convoluted by various understandings, promoting undue attention and proposed relevance to concurrence of surrounding circumstances. These contrived understandings are the "inserted manner" in which people are being manipulated in the name of the faith, and that is intrinsically wrong and leads to much worse understandings.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844". This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

It's not the words in scripture with which I take issue at all, it's how people use them. I firmly believe we should "nip these" understandings "in the bud", although I admit for many, it may be too late.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844".

Looks to me you're complaint is against "time setting" and we know that Jesus clearly showed the disciples that the timing of events are in God's hands, not men.

"It is not for you to know the times or the season which the Father hath put in his own power."
Acts 1:7

 

[Is]

No. I'm likening "a doomsday hoax" to a popular interpretation of scripture. The pastors and other spiritual leaders who interpret the scripture to "rapture scenario" or other "extreme renditions of dispensationalism", "are Mary Bateman". People who "pass the egg" which had been "inserted into their oviducts" are the hen. The hen delivers the eggs, and of course, as a bird, has no capacity to the ramification of the message, actually delivers the message in a preferable fashion, because it does not, can not, hearken the immediacy and panic delivered to biblical allusion.

Christ is coming, that to me, as you, is, no doubt, a fact. That, those words, is the prophecy. The rest of the message is convoluted by various understandings, promoting undue attention and proposed relevance to concurrence of surrounding circumstances. These contrived understandings are the "inserted manner" in which people are being manipulated in the name of the faith, and that is intrinsically wrong and leads to much worse understandings.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844". This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

It's not the words in scripture with which I take issue at all, it's how people use them. I firmly believe we should "nip these" understandings "in the bud", although I admit for many, it may be too late.

This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

And further more, you choose David Koresh as some sort of an example? DK was a child molestor, yeah, he liked to rape little girl's. You couldn't have picked a more bizarre example if you had tried a little harder! The people that followed DK are a perfect example of people that didn't know their scriptures and the early church's history.

 

[eternallife7]

I think it is a real bad thing to think Revelation has past and Christ has already rewarded His people.

 

[valiant]

I think it is a real bad thing to think Revelation has past and Christ has already rewarded His people.

Revelation is partly past and partly future. Surely Christ rewards His people as they die? Thus the overcomers of John's day would have been rewarded by now.

 

[Stonemason]

And further more, you choose David Koresh as some sort of an example? DK was a child molestor, yeah, he liked to rape little girl's. You couldn't have picked a more bizarre example if you had tried a little harder! The people that followed DK are a perfect example of people that didn't know their scriptures and the early church's history.

Yeh, you also get Pat Robertson, Harold Camping, Heavens Gate, Mormons, movies like the Omen series and Left Behind, and every other amount of fervent biblical sensationalism. It's all "doomsday cultism", and you're defending the nonsense that is "the seeds of it". The Bible was not intended this way.

 

[Is]

Yeh, you also get Pat Robertson, Harold Camping, Heavens Gate, Mormons, movies like the Omen series and Left Behind, and every other amount of fervent biblical sensationalism. It's all "doomsday cultism", and you're defending the nonsense that is "the seeds of it". The Bible was not intended this way.

How did I defend anything? You're just trying to point the over the top bizaros.