Who or what is the third horseman in Revelations?

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Jul 23, 2015
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#61
Revelation: 19. 10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
~:» AND FROM WHAT IS WRITTEN
THIS VERSES DOESN'T TELL ANYTHING ABOUT FALSE PROPHETS OR
EVIL THINGS THAT COMES FROM WHITHIN THE THOUGHTS OF HUMANS . . ..

:smoke: remember what have been said unto the seven churches
-and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
-he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and if we miss some of the writtings please tell us

God bless us all always


:ty:
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#62
I think it refers to greed, that sellers are so greedy that the cost of living, things as simple as a loaf of bread, will be so expensive that the it will be hard for the poor to survive. I think it's a specific detail of the many ways ways that will show that the love of most will wax cold.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
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#63
I trade in the financial markets and one day I sat down to watch CNBC because they said it was the first day of the end of quantitative easing. I remember it because I paid close attention to how the market would react. It went up by the way. Then like three months later news places were still talking about quantitative easing as if it never ended. That is why I do not pay to much attention to the news because of that reason for one. The NT mentions about deception many times and I think it is prevalent than we realize.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
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#64
One more thing I want to share about my view of Revelation. And that it is about how much of an impact Christ made on the universe and beyond by dying on the cross for our sins I beleive. Scripture tells us that had the rulers known the reason of the cross they never would have crucified Christ. Jesus also gives a parable about how the husband of the vineyard sent his son and that the tenets recognized him as his son and then killed him so they could try to keep his inheritance for themselves. I suggest to you that that inheritances mention was referring to you and me who believe in Jesus Christ. One more thing I would like to add and that is that we should never take lightly what Christ did for us even though scripture tells us that God so loved the world because the book of Revelation is playing out in history for at least one reason I believe and that is to show us how important it is to know and serve Christ completely. I hope people can understand this post and that they understand that it is just a post.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
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#65
Sorry for all the grammar mistakes its two thirty in the morning. lol
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#66
Also when it says the beast has seven heads and ten horns I'm not sure what the seven heads are but the ten horns I believe shows great differences in agenda in the kingdom of darkness and I think it means that a house divided will not stand.
the seven heads are seven rulers, five are fallen, one is and one is yet to come. Thus they represent Roman emperors. The one who 'is' helps us to date the book. After this will come the eighth who is the Beast.
 
I

Is

Guest
#67
Okay lots of good responses so far, so if say the white horse is the antichrist then there is an issue because the antichrist has not yet been revealed and the red horse is war and rumors of war right? the third is famine and the fourth is death I believe.
But other than the antichrist himself all these horsemen appear to have been around since before Jesus days, so other than the antichrist we could assume that this part of revelation is complete. But no one really knows who the antichrist is, we have ideas of who he is but he has not revealed himself and there certainly hasn't been a seven year peace treaty in which he would break yet. But as Valiant pointed out jesus spoke of these things to his generation and in the new testament after Pentecost they spoke often of always being ready always watching and spoke often of the end times as if it could happen in their life times.

so is this all something that was specifically meant for later generations and the apostles and fellow believers were wrong to be ready and to watch? Because if it is only to happen for this generation and the first seal hasn't even been opened then why were they preparing for this?

But other than the antichrist himself all these horsemen appear to have been around since before Jesus days
To what degree? Jesus says in Matt.24:8, that wars, famine, pestilence and earthquakes are the beginning of sorrow, and I would say that has already started.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#68
To what degree? Jesus says in Matt.24:8, that wars, famine, pestilence and earthquakes are the beginning of sorrow, and I would say that has already started.
yes they followed shortly after Jesus had prophesied
 
Nov 9, 2015
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#69
yes they followed shortly after Jesus had prophesied
They did, and also before Jesus prophesied. The 14th century had the black plague, armed conflict, tectonic activity and starving people. Maybe this "Rapture" happened then. What we all are, are the leftovers.

No. It's simply not this way. I've said it before, I'll say it again. At least the hen of Leeds did it better, as the hen of Leeds didn't claim the Bible in the nonsense it spread.
 
I

Is

Guest
#70
They did, and also before Jesus prophesied. The 14th century had the black plague, armed conflict, tectonic activity and starving people. Maybe this "Rapture" happened then. What we all are, are the leftovers.

No. It's simply not this way. I've said it before, I'll say it again. At least the hen of Leeds did it better, as the hen of Leeds didn't claim the Bible in the nonsense it spread.
So your giving credit to a doomsday hoax versus the Bible?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#71
Okay lots of good responses so far, so if say the white horse is the antichrist then there is an issue because the antichrist has not yet been revealed and the red horse is war and rumors of war right? the third is famine and the fourth is death I believe.
But other than the antichrist himself all these horsemen appear to have been around since before Jesus days, so other than the antichrist we could assume that this part of revelation is complete. But no one really knows who the antichrist is, we have ideas of who he is but he has not revealed himself and there certainly hasn't been a seven year peace treaty in which he would break yet. But as Valiant pointed out jesus spoke of these things to his generation and in the new testament after Pentecost they spoke often of always being ready always watching and spoke often of the end times as if it could happen in their life times.

so is this all something that was specifically meant for later generations and the apostles and fellow believers were wrong to be ready and to watch? Because if it is only to happen for this generation and the first seal hasn't even been opened then why were they preparing for this?
Not quite.

The generation our Lord Jesus pointed to in Matt.24 and Mark 13 was the generation that will see 'all these things' He was giving the signs about. Some try to say those signs already happened back in the Apostle's days, but they did not. They simply misinterpret them per men's doctrines of either Preterism or Historicism.

Matt 24:33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

The last sign He gave in that chapter was the sign of His second coming, so has that happened yet? No, of course not. That means the generation that sees His second coming will also see ALL of those signs He gave there, which are the Seals of Rev.6, and the Trumpets, and the Vials.

I've said before, not all the events in the written order of the Seals are in actual chronological order as to when they occur. The rider on the white horse I strongly believe is the coming Antichrist, but he doesn't come until the 6th Seal, 6th trumpet.

The destruction in Jerusalem at the temple mount area doesn't occur until the day of Christ's second coming; that is when not one stone literally will not be atop another, on the "day of the Lord" (the old stones of the retaining wall, called the Wailing Wall, are still standing there today). Preterists and Historicists see that as having happened in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple and city. But 2 Thess.2:4 and Rev.11:1-2 reveals another temple built for the last days. And the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel requires a temple in Jerusalem for the coming false one to sit in.
 
I

Is

Guest
#72
Not quite.

The generation our Lord Jesus pointed to in Matt.24 and Mark 13 was the generation that will see 'all these things' He was giving the signs about. Some try to say those signs already happened back in the Apostle's days, but they did not. They simply misinterpret them per men's doctrines of either Preterism or Historicism.

Matt 24:33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

The last sign He gave in that chapter was the sign of His second coming, so has that happened yet? No, of course not. That means the generation that sees His second coming will also see ALL of those signs He gave there, which are the Seals of Rev.6, and the Trumpets, and the Vials.

I've said before, not all the events in the written order of the Seals are in actual chronological order as to when they occur. The rider on the white horse I strongly believe is the coming Antichrist, but he doesn't come until the 6th Seal, 6th trumpet.

The destruction in Jerusalem at the temple mount area doesn't occur until the day of Christ's second coming; that is when not one stone literally will not be atop another, on the "day of the Lord" (the old stones of the retaining wall, called the Wailing Wall, are still standing there today). Preterists and Historicists see that as having happened in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple and city. But 2 Thess.2:4 and Rev.11:1-2 reveals another temple built for the last days. And the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel requires a temple in Jerusalem for the coming false one to sit in.
The destruction in Jerusalem at the temple mount area doesn't occur until the day of Christ's second coming; that is when not one stone literally will not be atop another, on the "day of the Lord" (the old stones of the retaining wall, called the Wailing Wall, are still standing there today).
Actually the wailing wall isn't part of the original temple. Ernest L. Martin makes a good case for that in his book The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot. You can find it at Asscociates For Scriptural Knowledge.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#73
Actually the wailing wall isn't part of the original temple. Ernest L. Martin makes a good case for that in his book The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot. You can find it at Asscociates For Scriptural Knowledge.
Actually it is... part of the temple mount complex of structures, a retaining wall. Matt.24 is not just referring to a single structure on the temple mount.
 
I

Is

Guest
#74
Actually it is... part of the temple mount complex of structures, a retaining wall. Matt.24 is not just referring to a single structure on the temple mount.
"There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Matt. 24:2

Were you aware that for a radius of 10 miles around Jerusalem the land was totally destroyed? Matt. 24:2 would have surely applied to what you call a retaining wall if it had been part of the Temple.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#75
"There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Matt. 24:2

Were you aware that for a radius of 10 miles around Jerusalem the land was totally destroyed? Matt. 24:2 would have surely applied to what you call a retaining wall if it had been part of the Temple.

Western (Wailing) Wall
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#76
Not quite.

The generation our Lord Jesus pointed to in Matt.24 and Mark 13 was the generation that will see 'all these things' He was giving the signs about. Some try to say those signs already happened back in the Apostle's days, but they did not. They simply misinterpret them per men's doctrines of either Preterism or Historicism.
whenever Jesus spoke of 'this generation' He ALWAYS pointed at His own generation. Why should He then deceive us by changing His use?

Matt 24:33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

The last sign He gave in that chapter was the sign of His second coming, so has that happened yet? No, of course not.
This is a sad evidence of how loosely you interpret Scripture. THESE THINGS specifically referred to the destruction of the Temple that Jesus had described. It did not refer to His second coming. Compare Matt, Mark and Luke.


That means the generation that sees His second coming will also see ALL of those signs He gave there, which are the Seals of Rev.6, and the Trumpets, and the Vials.

Nonsense. The seals were opened one by one through history in accordance with the beginning of sorrows in Mtt 24. False Messiahs, war, famine, wholesale death, persecution of the saints and then in the sixth seal the second coming. The trumpets and vials are parallel with the seals showing more specific judgments on parts of the earth.

I've said before, not all the events in the written order of the Seals are in actual chronological order as to when they occur. The rider on the white horse I strongly believe is the coming Antichrist, but he doesn't come until the 6th Seal, 6th trumpet.
I'm glad you admit YOU said it. The Holy Spirit shows them in chronological order. The rider on the white horse symbolised the advance of false religion including false Messiahs, false prophets and many antichrists.

The destruction in Jerusalem at the temple mount area doesn't occur until the day of Christ's second coming;
There are none as blind as those who won't see. Jesus specifically pointed to Herod's temple and answered the question 'when will these things (that you have been describing) be?' Thus it is quite clear that the abomination of desolation occurred in 70 AD. This was then followed by great tribulation on the Jews through the centuries, lading up to the second coming.

that is when not one stone literally will not be atop another, on the "day of the Lord" (the old stones of the retaining wall, called the Wailing Wall, are still standing there today).
They are not the walls of the Sanctuary. The Sanctuary was wholly torn down.

Preterists and Historicists see that as having happened in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple and city. But 2 Thess.2:4 and Rev.11:1-2 reveals another temple built for the last days. And the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel requires a temple in Jerusalem for the coming false one to sit in.
You do talk such nonsense, 2 Thess 2 only refers to a 'temple of god'. It does not refer to the Jerusalem temple. Rev 11.1-2 is patently symbolic. Open your eyes
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#77
whenever Jesus spoke of 'this generation' He ALWAYS pointed at His own generation. Why should He then deceive us by changing His use?
If you actually... read what He said in Matt.24:33-34, the generation He was pointing to is the one that will see ALL those things He gave, i.e, the signs of the end, the last sign being that of His coming and gathering of His saints. If you fail to listen to Him on that, then you deceive yourself, or you allow other men to deceive you saying it means something else.

This is a sad evidence of how loosely you interpret Scripture. THESE THINGS specifically referred to the destruction of the Temple that Jesus had described. It did not refer to His second coming. Compare Matt, Mark and Luke.
It's exactly how the words are in English. The generation that sees "all these things" will not pass until all be fulfilled. It's very simple to read as it is written. As for destruction of the temple, He did not say just the temple. He said there will not be one stone standing atop another in that area, which is different, because like it or not, the Wailing Wall (western wall of the old temple complex built by Herod) is still standing today.

Furthermore, the other signs He gave in that chapter are also part of "all these things", and must occur in that final generation also. No "abomination of desolation" was setup by the Romans in the temple in the 70 A.D. destruction. The temple burned before they could get control of it. And for that "abomination of desolation" prophecy to be fulfilled from the Book of Daniel which Jesus quoted, it means a standing temple in Jerusalem is... required.

Nonsense. The seals were opened one by one through history in accordance with the beginning of sorrows in Mtt 24. False Messiahs, war, famine, wholesale death, persecution of the saints and then in the sixth seal the second coming. The trumpets and vials are parallel with the seals showing more specific judgments on parts of the earth.
The doctrine of men you're keeping is what is not allowing you to understand our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse there. Jesus gave only seven signs in His Olivet Discourse, and those are the seven seals, trumpets, and vials. His coming is on the seventh trumpet and seventh vial. So yes, there is a parallel timing between the seals, trumpets, and vials. But those seven signs did not begin until this final generation we are in today.

I'm glad you admit YOU said it. The Holy Spirit shows them in chronological order. The rider on the white horse symbolised the advance of false religion including false Messiahs, false prophets and many antichrists.
Actually no, The Holy Spirit did not give John all the seal events in order. Like I've said before, whether one believes the rider on the white horse is the coming Antichrist, or our Lord Jesus, that is NOT the FIRST EVENT to occur. That automatically means not all events of the seals are in order.

Likewise with Jesus' coming on the 6th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th vial, that shows we must pay attention to the actual events given, and not allow sequential numbering to confuse us. We can know that the last 3 trumpets are definitely in chronological order though, and that is part of the key of understanding where the events given in the seals and vials fit.


There are none as blind as those who won't see. Jesus specifically pointed to Herod's temple and answered the question 'when will these things (that you have been describing) be?' Thus it is quite clear that the abomination of desolation occurred in 70 AD. This was then followed by great tribulation on the Jews through the centuries, lading up to the second coming.
In Matt.24:3, Jesus' disciples understood Him to be speaking of that event at the time of His second coming and end of this world. What your doctrine does is try to change that to past history. It means to either strike out that part of Scripture or to believe that His second coming already happened back in the Apostle's days, which is what men's doctrine of Full Preterism actually believes.

When Jesus returns, there literally... won't be one stone standing atop of another anywhere on that temple mount complex of structures, meaning even today's Wailing Wall will no longer be standing (not one stone on top of another there, literally). Until that happens, then the 70 A.D. destruction only serves as a blueprint for the future and final fulfillment at His coming on the "day of the Lord".

They are not the walls of the Sanctuary. The Sanctuary was wholly torn down.
That's where men's doctrines you follow has you fooled, by their only stressing the destruction of the temple building and city in 70 A.D. by the Romans, instead of recognizing what not one stone on top of another in that whole area means linked with the day of His second coming on the "day of the Lord".

You do talk such nonsense, 2 Thess 2 only refers to a 'temple of god'. It does not refer to the Jerusalem temple. Rev 11.1-2 is patently symbolic. Open your eyes
Those who say the "temple of God" that false one of 2 Thess.2:4 is shown sitting in is something else other than a literal temple in Jerusalem are deceived. Those often say it is the spiritual temple of Ephesians 2, which is impossible, since Christ's spiritual temple made up of the Apostles, prophets, and Himself as its foundation Stone cannot be corrupted by the Antichrist. No one can corrupt His spiritual temple. Even a believer that falls away is cut off from His spiritual temple.

Thus the temple Apostle Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2:4 is... the temple in Jerusalem, another one built for the end. The orthodox Jews are expecting it to be built by Messiah per Zech.6:12-13. Problem with that is, they aren't aware of the pseudo-messiah God is sending them first, and that is that false one of 2 Thess.2.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#78
Also when it says the beast has seven heads and ten horns I'm not sure what the seven heads are but the ten horns I believe shows great differences in agenda in the kingdom of darkness and I think it means that a house divided will not stand.
Rev 17:9
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
KJV

Rev 17:1
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
KJV

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
KJV




Our Lord Jesus actually showed us what the seven heads ("seven mountains") are upon which the Babylon harlot sits. That's the waters the "whore" sits upon, which "peoples, multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Since the very last Rev.17 verse shows us that symbolic "woman" is a certain city (Jerusalem per Rev.17:6 and Rev.11:8), it means the "woman" sits in power over... the nations and peoples on earth. So how would those "seven mountains" be divided up? I see them to mean continents, i.e., put for the whole civilized world.

Rev 17:12-13
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
KJV

Those ten kings are divided up among those seven mountains, ruling with the beast king there for that "one hour", which symbolizes the very end, i.e, the tribulation timing.

Because of the "little horn" prophecy from the Book of Daniel, the little horn (that beast king, the 7th) is to subdue 3 of those ten kings. That leaves 7 kings, which I consider to be the rulers over those seven mountains. For many decades now, globalist groups like the Tri-Lateral Commission have declared their intent to divide the earth up into 3 main areas. I believe those 3 subdued kings will be over those 3 areas of the earth, with the 7 kings under them in 7 territories. This is speculation of course, but what I'm see those Scriptures pointing to along with globalist political workings today.
 
Nov 9, 2015
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#79
So your giving credit to a doomsday hoax versus the Bible?
No. I'm likening "a doomsday hoax" to a popular interpretation of scripture. The pastors and other spiritual leaders who interpret the scripture to "rapture scenario" or other "extreme renditions of dispensationalism", "are Mary Bateman". People who "pass the egg" which had been "inserted into their oviducts" are the hen. The hen delivers the eggs, and of course, as a bird, has no capacity to the ramification of the message, actually delivers the message in a preferable fashion, because it does not, can not, hearken the immediacy and panic delivered to biblical allusion.

Christ is coming, that to me, as you, is, no doubt, a fact. That, those words, is the prophecy. The rest of the message is convoluted by various understandings, promoting undue attention and proposed relevance to concurrence of surrounding circumstances. These contrived understandings are the "inserted manner" in which people are being manipulated in the name of the faith, and that is intrinsically wrong and leads to much worse understandings.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844". This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

It's not the words in scripture with which I take issue at all, it's how people use them. I firmly believe we should "nip these" understandings "in the bud", although I admit for many, it may be too late.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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#80
No. I'm likening "a doomsday hoax" to a popular interpretation of scripture. The pastors and other spiritual leaders who interpret the scripture to "rapture scenario" or other "extreme renditions of dispensationalism", "are Mary Bateman". People who "pass the egg" which had been "inserted into their oviducts" are the hen. The hen delivers the eggs, and of course, as a bird, has no capacity to the ramification of the message, actually delivers the message in a preferable fashion, because it does not, can not, hearken the immediacy and panic delivered to biblical allusion.

Christ is coming, that to me, as you, is, no doubt, a fact. That, those words, is the prophecy. The rest of the message is convoluted by various understandings, promoting undue attention and proposed relevance to concurrence of surrounding circumstances. These contrived understandings are the "inserted manner" in which people are being manipulated in the name of the faith, and that is intrinsically wrong and leads to much worse understandings.

To wit, Seventh Day Adventist doctrine was an "end times prophecy" sect which sprang from the Millerites, who "came to believe that Jesus would return on October 22, 1844". This line of teaching later spawned, from a schism, the Branch Davidian religious group, and thus the influence of a man known as "David Koresh".

It's not the words in scripture with which I take issue at all, it's how people use them. I firmly believe we should "nip these" understandings "in the bud", although I admit for many, it may be too late.
I thought Koresh was actually allied to the Mormon faith, not SDA... and not that I agree with everything SDA teaches either.

If one goes back to read what the early Church fathers saw about the events of the coming Antichrist and events of the end, they will discover various interpretations based on the events of their days also. But events will still occur to how God's Holy Writ declares as written. And not everything written is to remain a mystery until it has come to pass.