Who was Moses speaking to?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,568
407
83
#1
Today people know that there is only one God who is God of everyone but in OT time it was universally believed that each nation had their own God. Over and over as God speaks to the Hebrews, God tells he speaks to them and also to the “strangers among you”.

In the approximately 2,000 years of the history of our world from Adam to Abraham, people had forgotten the Lord and created idols as Gods. God created and used the Hebrew race to tell us about Him. God created all people, God is the God of all, but Hebrews thought he was their personal God, so did the rest of the world.

As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
1,224
1,021
113
#2
Today people know there is one God? Is that why eastern religions are gaining popularity? There are Plenty of people that don't have a monotheistic view.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
9,906
4,660
113
#3
Today people know that there is only one God who is God of everyone but in OT time it was universally believed that each nation had their own God. Over and over as God speaks to the Hebrews, God tells he speaks to them and also to the “strangers among you”.

In the approximately 2,000 years of the history of our world from Adam to Abraham, people had forgotten the Lord and created idols as Gods. God created and used the Hebrew race to tell us about Him. God created all people, God is the God of all, but Hebrews thought he was their personal God, so did the rest of the world.

As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?
Six times in Exodus, God is identified as the God of the Hebrews. Of course we Christians understand that He is the Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them, but I don't see a problem with Him being identified in such a "limited" way.

The reality is that God did, in fact, make His covenant at Sinai with the Hebrews specifically and exclusively, not with any other nation. He didn't make it with the Egyptians, or the Horites, or the Hittites. We as Christian believers don't relate to God through the 'Hebrew covenant', but through Jesus Christ. That's the same way all nations (people) today may relate to Him. Anyone attempting to relate to God through the Sinai covenant is wasting their time, because Jesus fulfilled and superseded it.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,568
407
83
#4
Six times in Exodus, God is identified as the God of the Hebrews. Of course we Christians understand that He is the Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them, but I don't see a problem with Him being identified in such a "limited" way.

The reality is that God did, in fact, make His covenant at Sinai with the Hebrews specifically and exclusively, not with any other nation. He didn't make it with the Egyptians, or the Horites, or the Hittites. We as Christian believers don't relate to God through the 'Hebrew covenant', but through Jesus Christ. That's the same way all nations (people) today may relate to Him. Anyone attempting to relate to God through the Sinai covenant is wasting their time, because Jesus fulfilled and superseded it.
I am not clear about what your beliefs are. Do you think the Hebrew God, speaking to the Hebrews excludes you, so you are not included in what this Hebrew God tells the Hebrews?

In 2 Sam. 22:45 Strangers shall submit themselves unto me: as soon as they hear, they shall be obedient unto me.

This is only one of the many many scriptures telling the Hebrews the God is including the strangers as in Lev. 8, 12, and 13. Lev. 19:24. Lev. 20:2. Jos. 8:35. This is only a very small sample of those scriptures.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
9,906
4,660
113
#5
I am not clear about what your beliefs are. Do you think the Hebrew God, speaking to the Hebrews excludes you, so you are not included in what this Hebrew God tells the Hebrews?

In 2 Sam. 22:45 Strangers shall submit themselves unto me: as soon as they hear, they shall be obedient unto me.

This is only one of the many many scriptures telling the Hebrews the God is including the strangers as in Lev. 8, 12, and 13. Lev. 19:24. Lev. 20:2. Jos. 8:35. This is only a very small sample of those scriptures.
The covenant was with the Hebrews, aka Israel. It wasn't with me. I was grafted into Israel through Christ, not through Sinai.

The Scripture clearly states that all of it was given for instruction, rebuke, correction, and training, but that doesn't mean that every word is written to every reader.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,701
2,553
113
#6
As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?
1. Today no one has an excuse to not read THE WHOLE BIBLE. Therefore no one is limited to just the OT/

2. It is true that God made covenants with the Hebrews, since their Messiah and the Savior of the world -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- would be born as a Hebrew of the Hebrews.
Adam ---Seth -- Noah -- Eber -- Abraham -- Isaac -- Jacob --Judah -- David -- Jesus

2. But God made provision for the salvation of Gentiles through Christ:
GALATIANS 3
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


3. As to your title, since no man has seen God the Father at any time, Moses was speaking to the pre-incarnate Christ throughout. See Exodus 3 for details. Here Jesus calls Himself "I AM THAT I AM" or simply "I AM", and in the Gospel of John He also calls Himself "I AM". For those who are still uncertain, Jesus is God (as well as the Son of God).
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
5,512
3,811
113
65
lawton ok
#7
Today people know that there is only one God who is God of everyone but in OT time it was universally believed that each nation had their own God. Over and over as God speaks to the Hebrews, God tells he speaks to them and also to the “strangers among you”.

In the approximately 2,000 years of the history of our world from Adam to Abraham, people had forgotten the Lord and created idols as Gods. God created and used the Hebrew race to tell us about Him. God created all people, God is the God of all, but Hebrews thought he was their personal God, so did the rest of the world.

As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?
It becomes more obvious that God chose to reveal himself through the Hebrews as we study the Mosaic laws. t He is willing to accept all who will set aside their false gods. That circumcision was the outward sign of being set apart and having faith in Gods promises and obedience to Him. God does not discriminate or segregate against those who are faithful to him.

The Israelites were encouraged to accept strangers and foreigner's if they are willing to only worship Him. The majority of the world at that time was pantheistic and what he did for the Israelites was to show that they worshiped the one only true omnipotent omnipresent creator of life and the universe itself.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,568
407
83
#8
It becomes more obvious that God chose to reveal himself through the Hebrews as we study the Mosaic laws. t He is willing to accept all who will set aside their false gods. That circumcision was the outward sign of being set apart and having faith in Gods promises and obedience to Him. God does not discriminate or segregate against those who are faithful to him.

The Israelites were encouraged to accept strangers and foreigner's if they are willing to only worship Him. The majority of the world at that time was pantheistic and what he did for the Israelites was to show that they worshiped the one only true omnipotent omnipresent creator of life and the universe itself.
It seems to me that you are clearly right, God speaks to all those who who are willing to set aside false gods.

Christ is not a brand new God, separate from God the Father. Scripture tells us they are one. If Christ speaks for all men then it must be the Father can be called a Hebrew God, and Christ can be called a Hebrew God . God is also our God who created us and speaks to us.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,498
879
113
#9
Today people know that there is only one God who is God of everyone but in OT time it was universally believed that each nation had their own God. Over and over as God speaks to the Hebrews, God tells he speaks to them and also to the “strangers among you”.

In the approximately 2,000 years of the history of our world from Adam to Abraham, people had forgotten the Lord and created idols as Gods. God created and used the Hebrew race to tell us about Him. God created all people, God is the God of all, but Hebrews thought he was their personal God, so did the rest of the world.

As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?
For one thing much has been lost as to the result of the first century reformation in regard to . .What was its purpose in helping understand that his covenants had nothing to with the flesh of nations?

The period of time God had given over the unbelieving (no faith) Jews under a pagan form of government (Kings) because of their jealousy of the surrounding nations. When the time of reformation came it cut off the Jew from having a false hope in their flesh as to the covenant were in respect to their flesh alone. A terrible tribulation for them, like none before or ever again . The promise of Joel had come showing God was always the father of all nations sending out men and woman as prophets and apostles. Prophesying or declaring the gospel in all the languages/tongues of the world. A sign against those Jews used to represent unbelief in mankind. .Just as God had promised in Isaiah 28. That he would mock those who mock him.... having a false idea that the covenants only related to Hebrew flesh. They made the tongue of God, prophecy without effect by their oral traditions after the philosophies of men. . . a sign of unbelief against them. Prophecy to the whole world.

It would seem today more attention is given to the 15 century reformation
 

JamOn

Active member
Jun 10, 2019
343
112
43
#10
what did you do Aaron
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
1,594
300
83
#11
Six times in Exodus, God is identified as the God of the Hebrews. Of course we Christians understand that He is the Creator of heaven and earth and everything in them, but I don't see a problem with Him being identified in such a "limited" way.

The reality is that God did, in fact, make His covenant at Sinai with the Hebrews specifically and exclusively, not with any other nation. He didn't make it with the Egyptians, or the Horites, or the Hittites. We as Christian believers don't relate to God through the 'Hebrew covenant', but through Jesus Christ. That's the same way all nations (people) today may relate to Him. Anyone attempting to relate to God through the Sinai covenant is wasting their time, because Jesus fulfilled and superseded it.
Even Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and not the Gentiles. Zechariah explained it well in Luke

Luke 1 (NLT)
68 “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has visited and redeemed his people.
69 He has sent us a mighty Savior[h]
from the royal line of his servant David,
70 just as he promised
through his holy prophets long ago.
71 Now we will be saved from our enemies
and from all who hate us.
72 He has been merciful to our ancestors
by remembering his sacred covenant—
73 the covenant he swore with an oath
to our ancestor Abraham
.

Note all the bold references in this proclaimation from Zechariah, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, was to Israel and the Jews. There is absolutely zero mention of the Gentiles.
 
Mar 14, 2011
62,130
9,082
113
#12
Where people get confused is God set up Israel to be a special nation. As a special nation, God gave them certain promises, And he said if you want to live out these promises, this is what I want you to do.

Trying to say we as christians should live out those things given to Israel is like saying people in Australia should bow down to american values, pay their taxes, and obey their laws, In Australia.


it does not work that way.

 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,027
1,170
113
#13
Well Gods first covenant was with Noah and He also made it with all the animals on the ark and their perpetual generations.

Moses was speaking to all the Israelites who came out of egypt. Strangers amongst you might have referred to egyptian maids and servants? Who had decided to follow or be with them.
Remember abraham had a son with Hagar sarahs egyptian maid, and althougb ishmael was not the son of promise or part of the covenant that isaac was, he was blessed anyway. He was circumcised too, at 13 years old. And God made him a great nation. He just didnt inherit the promised land.

Obviously by the time of Jesus many of the Hebrews were now speaking greek the common language of the time, the bible got translated, and greeks themselves started learning about God too. Its quite clear that Jesus intended the gentiles to know Him too. One of Jesus ancestors was Ruth, a moabitess. And also further back Rahab who was not a hebrew.

The thing was God was only speaking to moses to give the Israelites his laws in Hebrew and making them a special holy nation so that Christ could come and then through his sacrifice redeem ALL of mankind who believed. At the time of Jesus cruxifiction, the sign King of the Jews was hung above Jesus and translated into three different languages. Greek, Latin and Hebrew

And of course day of pentecost, everyone spoke in tongues praising God. . Not just Hebrew. A heart change doesnt require a fixed language. It is the spirit that give life, not the letter.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,498
879
113
#14
The covenant was with the Hebrews, aka Israel. It wasn't with me. I was grafted into Israel through Christ, not through Sinai.

The Scripture clearly states that all of it was given for instruction, rebuke, correction, and training, but that doesn't mean that every word is written to every reader.
The covenant is to who so ever was given ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

How were the Hebrews grafted in seeing if any man had not the Spirt of Christ they simply did not belong to Christ.

And if they were not grafted in how did they get in. Born in?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
1,594
300
83
#15
The covenant is to who so ever was given ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

How were the Hebrews grafted in seeing if any man had not the Spirt of Christ they simply did not belong to Christ.

And if they were not grafted in how did they get in. Born in?
Straightforward answer, the covenant of circumcision.

Genesis 17
9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a zsign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is aeight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bbought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,856
113
#18
Today people know that there is only one God who is God of everyone but in OT time it was universally believed that each nation had their own God. Over and over as God speaks to the Hebrews, God tells he speaks to them and also to the “strangers among you”.

In the approximately 2,000 years of the history of our world from Adam to Abraham, people had forgotten the Lord and created idols as Gods. God created and used the Hebrew race to tell us about Him. God created all people, God is the God of all, but Hebrews thought he was their personal God, so did the rest of the world.

As people today read the OT to learn about God they often think of God as relating to and making covenants with the Hebrews, only. What do you think about it?

God is the personal God of all who believe in Him

the Messiah was promised when Adam and Eve were put out of the garden

the problem arises when people seem to think that keeping the OT covenants either brings them closer to God or creates a holiness aura that others do not have

we have one thing to remember; salvation is by God's grace and our faith in what God has provided

that was actually the way it worked it the OT as well. however, in the OT, people had all kinds of physcial manifestations of God to observe His reality and it seems plenty want to re-enact this again to their detriment

Jesus said , “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
John 20:29

I would not agree with your statement that people often think and relate to God only through the OT

in fact, the opposite may be true. too many think they need to keep the law and somehow earn their way into salvation

they confuse salvation with works or somehow a need to be worthy

salvation is actually what creates a change of heart
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,498
879
113
#19
Straightforward answer, the covenant of circumcision.

Genesis 17
9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a zsign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is aeight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bbought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Yes up until the fulfillment of that metaphor used in various parables .When our bloody husband as the sign of the first born was born into this world the sign lost it effect as a shadow it became sight .

The Reformation came taking away the use of Jewish flesh in parables used as types and figures to represent faith or unbelief in great tribulation for a outward Jew used to represent the whole world God is no respecter of persons. The clay comes from the same field

A tribulation. None like ever before or ever again (one demonstration) Many Jews crying out by a wall today in hope of the first demonstration going the way of the flesh rather than the unseen Holy Spirit. .

They had some sort of hope it was not necessary to be grafted in as other nations. But rather that others must be grafted into their flesh.


The gospel has nothing to do with Jewish flesh. Even the Son of man, Jesus said His flesh profits for nothing. Its the work of the unseen Spirt that can as does.

Again how were the Jews grafted into the body of Christ? Did their grafting in begin with the Amorites and the Hittites?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,498
879
113
#20
That is simply incorrect. The Sinai covenant was with ethnic Israel.
God is not a man as us. He is a supernatural Spirit like not other.

The gospel has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation. . . . as if God was served by human hands in any way shape or form to begin with.

We walk according to the 20/20 prescription he gave us called "faith". It is used as a parable opens the eyes of our new hearts and gives us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to us.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Like how beautiful are their feet of those who bring the good news.(gospel) Seeing prophecy is not after their mouth .

You could say how beautiful are the feet of Francis the talking Donkey. I don't think donkeys or lambs are considered Jewish.

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?