Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#41
It's amazing how the King Jim Lad version has led to so much confusion.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#42
When a Christian places their Faith and maintain their Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, the results are the Fruit of the Spirit, the help of the Spirit, and all the benefits Christ bought for us. The Holy Spirit always lead us to the work of Christ Jesus and the Cross.

Whosoever will
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,503
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#43
The only verse I can think of that is used in the claim is:

(Rom 3:22 KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
And and it conveys the wrong idea. The word translated as "by" is the Greek word dia which means "through" and the word translated as "of" is the word "in". Thus it is not the faith "of" Christ but faith "in" Christ,

Strong's Concordance
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Short Definition: through, on account of
Definition: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

So it is really "through faith in Jesus Christ" and that is how the NASV, NIV, ASV, RV, Holman Christian Standard Bible etc. have it. This is consistent with Gospel truth.

However, Calvinists falsely claim that the gift of God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 is faith, whereas the verse says that it is salvation, which is not of works, but because of the grace of God, and our faith in Him and in Christ and His finished work of redemption. So where does this faith come from?

Faith is generated by the Gospel itself, which is called "the Word of God", so faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). But the Gospel is never allowed to remain in isolation from the Holy Spirit, who convinces sinners that Christ died for them according to the Scripture, and rose again for their justification according to the Scriptures. And this is "saving faith". Whenever the full and true Gospel is preached, it is "the power of God unto salvation to them that believe".

But then, there is the spiritual gift of faith (1 Cor 12:9) which is given to some believers, and this would probably be an extraordinary faith to accomplish things for God. But we should also keep in mind that all one needs is faith as a grain of mustard seed in order to move mountains.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,803
183
63
#44
And and it conveys the wrong idea. The word translated as "by" is the Greek word dia which means "through" and the word translated as "of" is the word "in". Thus it is not the faith "of" Christ but faith "in" Christ,

Strong's Concordance
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Short Definition: through, on account of
Definition: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

So it is really "through faith in Jesus Christ" and that is how the NASV, NIV, ASV, RV, Holman Christian Standard Bible etc. have it. This is consistent with Gospel truth.

However, Calvinists falsely claim that the gift of God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 is faith, whereas the verse says that it is salvation, which is not of works, but because of the grace of God, and our faith in Him and in Christ and His finished work of redemption. So where does this faith come from?

Faith is generated by the Gospel itself, which is called "the Word of God", so faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). But the Gospel is never allowed to remain in isolation from the Holy Spirit, who convinces sinners that Christ died for them according to the Scripture, and rose again for their justification according to the Scriptures. And this is "saving faith". Whenever the full and true Gospel is preached, it is "the power of God unto salvation to them that believe".

But then, there is the spiritual gift of faith (1 Cor 12:9) which is given to some believers, and this would probably be an extraordinary faith to accomplish things for God. But we should also keep in mind that all one needs is faith as a grain of mustard seed in order to move mountains.
Thanks Nehemiah!

It seemed strange that all the other scriptures that speak of our faith, say faith in Christ and not faith of Christ. I appreciate the clarification. :)
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
172
0
#45
And and it conveys the wrong idea. The word translated as "by" is the Greek word dia which means "through" and the word translated as "of" is the word "in". Thus it is not the faith "of" Christ but faith "in" Christ,

Strong's Concordance
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Short Definition: through, on account of
Definition: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

So it is really "through faith in Jesus Christ" and that is how the NASV, NIV, ASV, RV, Holman Christian Standard Bible etc. have it. This is consistent with Gospel truth.

However, Calvinists falsely claim that the gift of God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 is faith, whereas the verse says that it is salvation, which is not of works, but because of the grace of God, and our faith in Him and in Christ and His finished work of redemption. So where does this faith come from?

Faith is generated by the Gospel itself, which is called "the Word of God", so faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). But the Gospel is never allowed to remain in isolation from the Holy Spirit, who convinces sinners that Christ died for them according to the Scripture, and rose again for their justification according to the Scriptures. And this is "saving faith". Whenever the full and true Gospel is preached, it is "the power of God unto salvation to them that believe".

But then, there is the spiritual gift of faith (1 Cor 12:9) which is given to some believers, and this would probably be an extraordinary faith to accomplish things for God. But we should also keep in mind that all one needs is faith as a grain of mustard seed in order to move mountains.
δικαιοσύνηη δὲ θεου̑ διὰ πίστεως ̓Ιησυ̑
righteousness of God's by faith Jesus'
Χριστου̑
Christ's
 
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Sep 3, 2016
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#46
FAITH IN GOD by Donnie Swaggart

Mark 11:22-24 — “And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.”

In Romans 12:3 the apostle Paul said, “As God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.” This means at the moment of conversion every believer is given or granted a measure of faith; however, the believer is to allow that faith to grow beyond just a measure.

Now the question must be asked, how does one’s measure of faith grow and mature? There are several variables to that question that every believer must know and understand. They are:

1. For faith to mature, the believer must have a proper understanding of the atonement, what Christ accomplished on Calvary’s Cross. Our faith, our focus must ever be placed in Christ and Him crucified. Let me break it down this way:

• Jesus Christ is the source of all things that
we receive from God (Jn. 14:6; Col. 2:10)

• The Cross of Christ is the means and, in fact,
the only means by which these things are given
to us (Rom. 6:3-5; I Cor. 2:2)

• The Cross of Christ, and the Cross of Christ
alone, must be the object of our faith in order
for us to receive what has been given (I Cor.
1:17, 23; Gal. 6:14).

• The Holy Spirit, who works exclusively within
the parameters of the finished work of Christ,
oversees all of this (Rom. 8:1-2, 11; Eph.
2:13-18).

All error in the church begins with a faulty understanding of Calvary; hence one’s personal faith cannot mature as it should without proper knowledge of Calvary.

2. Next, one must know the will of God, which can only be learned by the Word of God. “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God” (Rom. 10:17).

3. Then comes fellowship and relationship with the Lord through prayer and Bible study, which help strengthen and develop our faith.

4. Finally faith has to be tested. The Lord will allow trials and tribulations to come our way in order to teach us faith and trust in the Lord.

The believer must also know that every attack by Satan against us is really an attack against our faith. Will we put our trust in the Lord, man, or self?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#47
HAVE FAITH IN GOD This phrase literally means, “have the faith of God.” The structure of the Greek shows God as the object of faith. Once again, let me state that the object of our faith must ever be Christ and Him crucified.

God has chosen to operate His work from the basis of faith. In Hebrews 11:3, the Word of God says: “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” God’s vast creation was not created out of existing materials, but rather by faith. God spoke these things into existence; therefore His word carries not only power but creativity. His faith created His word; and as it regards human beings, His word creates faith.

God insists that man accepts everything done for him on the premise of faith—faith in the victory won on Calvary’s Cross. Christ must not be separated from the Cross, and the Cross must not be separated from Christ.

Faith in God ensures salvation and produces miracles. Hebrews 11:6 says, “Without faith it is impossible to please Him: For he who comes to God must believe (have faith) that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.”

If God can speak the word and create something out of nothing, then our faith in Him can turn our nothing into something.

Your salvation proves the power of faith, for it is by faith through grace that we are saved (Eph. 2:8). So the command from the Lord is, “Have faith in God.”

FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU
This phrase is meant to announce a truth of great consequence. This great truth concerns faith in God. In this verse Jesus tells us what faith in God will do.

WHOSOEVER
In this one word we find that there is no discrimination with God as to who can have mountain-moving faith. It doesn’t matter if you are a preacher or a layman, anyone can have faith to move mountains.

SHALL SAY
These two words proclaim the power of proper scriptural confession. Whatever we say shows where our faith actually is, and the direction we are headed. Faith speaks; faith is never passive. True faith always speaks what the Word of God says and how it applies to one’s particular needs, which should always incorporate the will of God. Therefore, we must seek the face of God for the will of God regarding the situation we are facing.

UNTO THIS MOUNTAIN
The word mountain as it is used here is a metaphor and is not speaking of a literal mountain. The Lord used the word mountain to describe the great problems of life we all face. The Lord is actually saying that whatever we are facing is not bigger than a mountain. In effect, the Lord is saying, “All things are possible.”

BE THOU REMOVED
This statement proclaims the word and power of faith. Faith doesn’t ask how it can be done or whether it’s possible. Faith says, “Be thou removed.”

BE CAST INTO THE SEA
Faith in God not only moves the mountain, but it puts the problem in a place where it cannot harm others.

AND SHALL NOT DOUBT IN HIS HEART
The word doubt in the Greek is diakrino, which means “to judge between two.” In this case, it means to judge whether faith in God can or cannot do what it says. However, I want to impress upon you that we serve a God who can.

BUT SHALL BELIEVE
Not only are we not to doubt God, but we are to also believe what He has said in His Word. The Lord is telling us that if we have proper faith in God and we know the will of God as it regards the mountain we are facing, then we can say to any mountain “Be thou removed into the sea.” We are to believe what God says.

THOSE THINGS This speaks of our particular needs. We are to take everything to the Lord in prayer to get proper direction so we are not asking for things that are not God’s will for us.

WHATSOEVER HE SAYS
Once again the Lord is telling us to say what we want. We are to confess it, however let me state once again that a proper confession is only proper when it is aligned with the will of God.

To use as an example, someone can go around confessing day and night that they are going to be the next president of the United States, however if that’s not God’s will, it’s not going to happen.

SHALL COME TO PASS
In the Greek text, these words are in the present tense, as in “comes to pass.” The idea is that it may not happen instantly, but faith keeps believing and faith keeps confessing. As the old saying goes, “Delay is not denial.”

HE SHALL HAVE WHATSOEVER HE SAYS
If it is the will of God, and we keep believing, asking, and confessing, then the outcome is certain. Once again, let me stress that what we are believing for must be the will of God.

WHAT THINGS SO EVER YOU DESIRE
This verse is greatly misinterpreted by many Christians; we must understand that what we desire must be what God desires. If it is not that which God desires, then it’s not going to happen.

WHEN YOU PRAY
In the Greek, pray means, “To offer prayer addressed to God, to Him as the object of faith and the one who will answer one’s prayer.” If God is the object of faith, then one’s desire will be God’s will and not our will.

BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL RECEIVE THEM, AND YOU SHALL HAVE THEM
Believe means, “to put in trust with.” It means that we have to trust not only for our request to be granted, but also in
God’s time.

The phrase, “And you shall have them” refers to a present tense with a futuristic conclusion. He doesn’t say exactly when we shall have them, but that it will be done. We must entrust the timing to Him.

In conclusion, the Lord wants His children to “have faith in God” regarding every situation in their lives.

FAITH IN GOD by Donnie Swaggart
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
76
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#48
The "of' or "in" is imposed by the translators:


 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,503
410
83
#49
HAVE FAITH IN GOD This phrase literally means, “have the faith of God.”

So Donnie starts with this and gives the impression that God's *faith* must be placed within us somehow.

But then he ends with this:

In conclusion, the Lord wants His children to “have faith in God” regarding every situation in their lives.
So it is either some kind of "supernatural" faith, or it is our simple faith and trust in God, and he ends up with the latter. But making such statements as "Have the faith of God" simply leads to spiritual confusion. Jesus said very clearly when teaching from the withered fig tree "HAVE FAITH IN GOD", and that should settle the issue.
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
76
48
#50
(Rom 3:3 KJV) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Similar structure here, but I think it's obvious that the faith of God is not in question

NASB - What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
 
P

PHart

Guest
#51

He opened our hearts and our minds, our eyes, our spirits so that we could respond to the gospel by grace through faith. It's all God's work in us. He reveals Himself to us, He reveals the truth to us...

You just described the gift of faith, which God gives to people. I summarize it as 'the ability to know something is true that you can not see and which you can not know is true on your own'.


"1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. " (Hebrews 11:1 NASB)


Faith is the supernatural ability to know for a fact that something is true that you can not see or know is true on your own.



...and so because of the work He's done within us we either respond in faith or reject the truth.
Yes, and to be more clear insert the word 'believing' in place of 'faith' in your statement above and I think this will clear it up completely.

God gives us the gracious gift of faith (the ability to know the gospel is really true--Hebrews 11:1) so that we can then believe/trust in what God has shown us to be true and be saved.

God gives the power to know the gospel is true that we can't otherwise know is true on our own. That's called 'faith'. We then have the responsibility to then do the believing/ trusting in what we now know to be true through his gift of faith and be saved. But most people reject the power of faith and choose not to believe/trust in what God shows them to be true through his supernatural gift of 'knowing'.

When a person understands the difference between 'faith' (a noun) and 'believing/trusting' (a verb) they then can can see how 'faith alone' can not save (James' argument). It isn't enough to 'know' through the power of faith that the gospel is true. We must choose to believe/trust in the gospel we now know to be true.

Every Christ rejecting unbeliever who has been called, but who chose to reject the calling, knew at the time of his calling that the gospel was true, because God revealed it to them that it was true, but what they didn't do is place their trust, their believing in what God showed them to be true, and so they are not saved. It's interesting that many of these called people take comfort out of having been called not knowing that the calling alone is not enough to save and they think their dead faith is going to somehow save them on the Day of Wrath. Just knowing that the gospel is true is not enough to save a person. James says even the demons have that faith. You must believe/trust in what you know to be true to be saved. Faith 'alone' does not save. Faith that is responded to with trusting/ believing does.
 
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PHart

Guest
#52
(Rom 3:3 KJV) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Similar structure here, but I think it's obvious that the faith of God is not in question

NASB - What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
In context, we see that the despite the Jews rejection of Christ it will not nullify God's promise to Abraham concerning the Jews. One day the Jews will indeed inherit the promises. A long history of lost, Christ rejecting Jews in no way will nullify that promise.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#53
I've been hearing a lot about how the faith we have is not our faith, but it's the faith of Jesus. I was just wondering what scriptures would validate this teaching?

I have never heard this until I came here to CC. Does anyone know when this teaching began? Is it a denominational teaching?



I believe it's our own faith and have been taught this and as I said, it's not something I've ever heard before. Actually there are so many things I've never heard before until I came here.


I've been pondering this for a while now. I was going to bring it up in our women's bible study I'm a part of, but we need all the time for the study. But I don't really think they've heard this before either.


Thanks! :)
SaveSave
it is Our Faith in God, through and because of Jesus and all He has already done for us to bring us to God. for example the holy spirit sent to strengthen and comfort us.

the "faith of" thing i began hearing here also....its just another way to disregard the teaching ,learning and applying, aspect of the Bible. if all rests on Jesus Faith, then all is already certain = osas belief...the Bible though says different

hebrews 10:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Luke 7:50 "And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

matt 9:22 "But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

mark 5:34 "And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague."

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight:
thy faith hath saved thee.


luke 17:`19 "And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.


it is Our Faith in Jesus Christ that comes through His Word accepted and believed. faith comes through Hearing, Hearing by the Word of God" romans 10:17. when we learn Gods Word and accept it and believe it, it changes Our minds through Our belief in His Word. Minds changed for Jesus based on His interpretation of things rather than Our own.


 
Jun 1, 2016
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#54
just another thought,

mark 6:5-6 "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.6And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

He could not do any " mighty works..... no one believed >>>>>so He went around teaching the gospel.



faith cometh by Hearing, and Hearing By the Word of God.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#55
It is our faith in his work, His promises, and his faithfulness. I.e., it is a total lack of faith in self.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,377
400
83
#56
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The faith that pleases God is perfect faith. Man's faith cannot be perfect or he would save himself. God gives faith through His word both written and manifest in the person of Jesus Christ.

Those who err in the faith and those who fall away from the faith are not in the faith created by God. Salvation and service require the faith of Christ created by the word of God and the Holy Spirit. Perfect faith that endures for all of eternity. Perfect faith that has the attributes of God as it's own attributes.

The heart of man Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,334
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#57
If the faith belong to Jesus, it must be perfect and no sin anymore. The fact we still sin, prove it is our faith
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
113
#58
δικαιοσύνηη δὲ θεου̑ διὰ πίστεως ̓Ιησυ̑
righteousness of God's by faith Jesus'
Χριστου̑
Christ's
AMEN....again.....let us all just chunk the following truths...........WHO IS THE SOURCE OF FAITH

a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith <----does this indicate source?
b. Jesus finishes the good work of faith he began <----Does this indicate completion of "a"
c. God deals to all believers a measure of faith <----Does this indicate source?
d. Faith is listed as a spiritual gift of God in 1st Corinthian 13 <----Does this indicate source?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,096
969
113
#59
If the faith belong to Jesus, it must be perfect and no sin anymore. The fact we still sin, prove it is our faith

I suggest JOHN, the word INCORRUPTABLE SEED and DO NOT SIN as applied to what is actually BORN AGAIN in man..........
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,732
62
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#60
And and it conveys the wrong idea. The word translated as "by" is the Greek word dia which means "through" and the word translated as "of" is the word "in". Thus it is not the faith "of" Christ but faith "in" Christ,

Strong's Concordance
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
Short Definition: through, on account of
Definition: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

So it is really "through faith in Jesus Christ" and that is how the NASV, NIV, ASV, RV, Holman Christian Standard Bible etc. have it. This is consistent with Gospel truth.

However, Calvinists falsely claim that the gift of God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 is faith, whereas the verse says that it is salvation, which is not of works, but because of the grace of God, and our faith in Him and in Christ and His finished work of redemption. So where does this faith come from?

Faith is generated by the Gospel itself, which is called "the Word of God", so faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). But the Gospel is never allowed to remain in isolation from the Holy Spirit, who convinces sinners that Christ died for them according to the Scripture, and rose again for their justification according to the Scriptures. And this is "saving faith". Whenever the full and true Gospel is preached, it is "the power of God unto salvation to them that believe".

But then, there is the spiritual gift of faith (1 Cor 12:9) which is given to some believers, and this would probably be an extraordinary faith to accomplish things for God. But we should also keep in mind that all one needs is faith as a grain of mustard seed in order to move mountains.
I'm going to have to disagree. The faith that brings justification is the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Christ never waivers. The faith of Christ was demonstrated by his obedience unto death, even the death of the cross.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: