Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

[Locoponydirtman]

In this "the holocaust" as you term it how many of them fulfilled Matthew 24:9 and died "for my names sake"? You see it might be convenient to find in history this fulfillment in the holocaust but they did not die for "Jesus names sake" in fact they don't/didnt believe Jesus our Lord was the Messiah and so how ever horrific the events that unfolded in ww2 were there still remains another Holocaust of those who will die for Jesus names sake. Be careful not to replace one with the other in theology.

I think the reason that the term "the Holocaust" is used would because the meaning of the word. It's the Greek word for the sacrifice that the Jews made on the alter. It literally mean whole burning, or the entirety is burned up.

 

[kaylagrl]

In this "the holocaust" as you term it how many of them fulfilled Matthew 24:9 and died "for my names sake"?

Ever read Corrie Ten Boons life story? You should. There were also Christians who gave their lives to try and save Jewish lives.


You see it might be convenient to find in history this fulfillment in the holocaust but they did not die for "Jesus names sake" in fact they don't/didnt believe Jesus our Lord was the Messiah

Read Romans 11. If you don't think the heart of God broke seeing these people being tortured and murdered you don't know the real God.



and so how ever horrific the events that unfolded in ww2 were there still remains another Holocaust of those who will die for Jesus names sake. Be careful not to replace one with the other in theology.

There are people dying at this moment for Jesus names sake. Acknowledging that the Holocaust was horrific and that Jews were tortured and murdered takes nothing away from Christians that have and will give their lives for their faith.

 

[iamsoandso]

I don't deny, nor does anyone I know, that others were murdered by Hitler and his gang. Over 6 million Jews and others that were seen as unfit. I don't know anyone that denies that. But Hitlers main idea was to wipe Jews out as a people. That is why people talk about the Jews and the Holocaust. Because they suffered the most for just being a Jew. Everything they had was taken, treated like cattle being shoved onto trains and led to their torture and death for many of them. That is why we speak of the Jews.

six million https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/cont...-of-europe-in-1933-population-data-by-country there were not that many Jews in the area occupied by Nazi Germany if you add up the total Jewish population. Now even if it happened to those who did live in Germany, Poland,France ect. it is still an horrific event I agree but Jews would have had to immigrate to Germany and ask to be pt in concentration camps for the number to be six million(but even a smaller number is a horror).

After you add that number there were thousands of Jews who were in the German army. Those who fled https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45919900 (one example) and those who survived the concentration camps (the number has to be conflated/propaganda)...

 

[iamsoandso]

That "great tribulation" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew is it towards those who (don't) believe Jesus is the Messiah or those who (do),,,Matthew 24:9 "my names sake"?

 

[UnderGrace]

its true they get the most media publicity. nobody ever talks about the russians, polaks and gypsies that perished.. tragic event all together.

i dont believe allies were good, i dont believe the axis were good.

both were guilty of horrific war crimes. i dont believe as i said before that christians should support any country or political movement here on earth. we are to keep our eyes on the kingdom of God and things above.

all the rulers are wicked and will remain wicked until Jesus comes back.

Thank you Melach and Amen, human suffering is pervasive at the hands of evil people.

I have been to Hiroshima, children vaporized in an instant while their bike is left intact.

 

[crossnote]

That "great tribulation" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew is it towards those who (don't) believe Jesus is the Messiah or those who (do),,,Matthew 24:9 "my names sake"?

God's wrath will be on unbelievers.
Tribulation is against believers.

 

[crossnote]

Thank you Melach and Amen, human suffering is pervasive at the hands of evil people.

I have been to Hiroshima, children vaporized in an instant while their bike is left intact.

Apples and oranges unless you are equating America's act against Japan as evil as Hitler's against the Jews. (Hint the Jews did not start the war against Germany).

 

[UnderGrace]

Not that I deny an Holocaust,,,just the term "the" holocaust. Why is because it only denotes one religious group or race when millions of others perished also.

Oh don't worry you will be labeled, of course all discourse must be shut down that dares dig a little deeper than the surface narrative, facts are threatening.

 

[UnderGrace]

Apples and oranges unless you are equating America's act against Japan as evil as Hitler's against the Jews. (Hint the Jews did not start the war against Germany).

I stated no such thing, I was making a statement about human suffering being pervasive and a personal experience of how true that is.

Honestly, I have an undergraduate degree in International Relations as well as post graduate degrees and teach for a university and your assumptions are tiring.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh don't worry you will be labeled, of course all discourse must be shut down that dares dig a little deeper than the surface narrative, facts are threatening.

And I am the one who gets heated

 

[UnderGrace]

And I am the one who gets heated

I do not know ....do you, you seem to have made it personal, I think?
People will label you and I was not referring to CC only...If I meant that I would have stated that!
I believe in dispassionate discourse on any subject...we need to be able to exchange ideas.
I have been told to not post...that is shutting down the discourse.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not know ....do you, you seem to have made it personal, I think?
People will label you and I was not referring to CC only...If I meant that I would have stated that!
I believe in dispassionate discourse on any subject...we need to be able to exchange ideas.
I have been told to not post...that is shutting down the discourse.

There are some things that are better left alone. An example is trying to blame Israel for ww2. And saying the allies who. Although I am sure guilty of many things. We’re just as guilty as the nazis who killed so many people from many nations in their death camps.

Sadly the people who were there are dieing. Soon there will be non left. And we will see very soon how many
More people will claim it never happened. My step father was there he is not a lair and he saw things he said he would never forget and would never tell anyone because they were too gruesome

 

[iamsoandso]

Whats the difference between Israel,Zionism and Orthodox Judaism? I know,and I see them used as synonyms when they are not.

 

[UnderGrace]

There are some things that are better left alone. An example is trying to blame Israel for ww2. And saying the allies who. Although I am sure guilty of many things. We’re just as guilty as the nazis who killed so many people from many nations in their death camps.

Sadly the people who were there are dieing. Soon there will be non left. And we will see very soon how many
More people will claim it never happened. My step father was there he is not a lair and he saw things he said he would never forget and would never tell anyone because they were too gruesome

Agree, however, I have never once claimed that the Holocaust never happened here, in the past or presently ,neither at home, with friends, with family, in the shopping mall, at work, or on the ski hill, or anywhere else.

Is human life not all equal?

 

[UnderGrace]

Whats the difference between Israel,Zionism and Orthodox Judaism? I know,and I see them used as synonyms when they are not.

Not all Jews are Zionists, Rabbi Dovid Weiss being one I have heard speak.

 

[kaylagrl]

six million https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/cont...-of-europe-in-1933-population-data-by-country there were not that many Jews in the area occupied by Nazi Germany if you add up the total Jewish population. Now even if it happened to those who did live in Germany, Poland,France ect. it is still an horrific event I agree but Jews would have had to immigrate to Germany and ask to be pt in concentration camps for the number to be six million(but even a smaller number is a horror).

After you add that number there were thousands of Jews who were in the German army. Those who fled https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45919900 (one example) and those who survived the concentration camps (the number has to be conflated/propaganda)...

All kinds of records and studies on this subject, from Yad Vashem,


There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. All the serious research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.

The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than 4.2 million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two millionand a half Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony had been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims.

 

[kaylagrl]

Oh don't worry you will be labeled, of course all discourse must be shut down that dares dig a little deeper than the surface narrative, facts are threatening.

Someone please tell UG the facts are that Gemans kept excellent records and never denied that 6 million Jews were killed when they were on trial, they only said they were following orders. Facts prove 6 million Jews were killed, the trials provided a literal ton of records kept by the Nazis.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whats the difference between Israel,Zionism and Orthodox Judaism? I know,and I see them used as synonyms when they are not.

Does it matter in the conversation? They are both enemies Of the gospel

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agree, however, I have never once claimed that the Holocaust never happened here, in the past or presently ,neither at home, with friends, with family, in the shopping mall, at work, or on the ski hill, or anywhere else.

Is human life not all equal?

I never stated you did Sis and I agree al human life is valuable

 

[UnderGrace]

Does it matter in the conversation? They are both enemies Of the gospel

Well on this we absolutely agree. YEAH!!

Having stated this it would matter in terms of the secular political world though, correct?

But perhaps not related to the conversation, true.