Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I stated no such thing, I was making a statement about human suffering being pervasive and a personal experience of how true that is.

Honestly, I have an undergraduate degree in International Relations as well as post graduate degrees and teach for a university and your assumptions are tiring.
My post was all in the context of posts 130/171 and 177 (your exchange with Melach). I probably should have responded to his but your post I saw first.
I don't get the connection of your degrees with my so called 'assumptions'.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
My post was all in the context of posts 130/171 and 177 (your exchange with Melach). I probably should have responded to his but your post I saw first.
I don't get the connection of your degrees with my so called 'assumptions'.
Okay Crossnote its all good, sometimes the written word apart from inflection, intonation etc., is a problem
It just seemed like you think I know nothing of politics and history, anyway does not matter.

I prefer dispassionate conversation on topics so I can have my own thinking stretched and learn...somehow we all get sidetracked happens to me too.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,518
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this is just a new boogieman word

there is no replacement theology. nobody believed that.
William E. Cox declared, “The historic Christian teaching holds that national Israel was a type or forerunner of the church, and that the church replaced Israel on the Day of Pentecost.” in Amillennialism Today pp 45-46.

Many believe it, and it is growing as biblical illiteracy is growing.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,518
2,455
113
Okay Crossnote its all good, sometimes the written word apart from inflection, intonation etc., is a problem
It just seemed like you think I know nothing of politics and history, anyway does not matter.

I prefer dispassionate conversation on topics so I can have my own thinking stretched and learn...somehow we all get sidetracked happens to me too.
10-4, I'll try to keep the passion and personal attacks down.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,951
664
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
Does it matter in the conversation? They are both enemies Of the gospel

lol, The Orthodox Jews are waiting for the Messiah to come and were against the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 by the worlds governments. They believe that it will be set up by the Messiah when he comes without anyone's help. They do try to present candidates for PM but don't have enough supporters to elect one.

Zionist are who is in charge in the state of Israel and to them the Messiah is any king/PM in that from 1948 and onward their will not cease to be an king on their throne. They go from business to business cornering it's market and their full intention is to overtake the entire planet and every government and religion(including Christianity) and have the earth bow down to their God.

They wrote some interesting articles in the 70's about the Christians and Islam ect...The basics to it is that they did not have a large enough military to go to war with Iran,Iraq ect. and win so seeing the Christians nations believed for the most part that Jesus could not return without a temple,nation of Israel ect. and that those nations would defend them if attacked that they would use those nations to divide the Muslim/Islamic countries into smaller territories with weaker unorganizd leaders which would exhaust the finances of those Christian nations at the same time. The just of it though is those Christian nations are on the same list to be conquered,just at the end when weak and no longer useful.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
William E. Cox declared, “The historic Christian teaching holds that national Israel was a type or forerunner of the church, and that the church replaced Israel on the Day of Pentecost.” in Amillennialism Today pp 45-46.

Many believe it, and it is growing as biblical illiteracy is growing.
I am not really sure who is a proponent of replacement theology and what the thinking is behind it, but would it seem reasonable that "church" means both spiritual Jew (born again) and spiritual gentile (born again).

On a spirtual level Israel is now Jesus and both are in Him, the spiritual gentile is grafted in.

Mr. Crossnote, the non spiritual Jew (unregenerate) is not part of this Israel correct?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism



lol, The Orthodox Jews are waiting for the Messiah to come and were against the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 by the worlds governments. They believe that it will be set up by the Messiah when he comes without anyone's help. They do try to present candidates for PM but don't have enough supporters to elect one.

Zionist are who is in charge in the state of Israel and to them the Messiah is any king/PM in that from 1948 and onward their will not cease to be an king on their throne. They go from business to business cornering it's market and their full intention is to overtake the entire planet and every government and religion(including Christianity) and have the earth bow down to their God.

They wrote some interesting articles in the 70's about the Christians and Islam ect...The basics to it is that they did not have a large enough military to go to war with Iran,Iraq ect. and win so seeing the Christians nations believed for the most part that Jesus could not return without a temple,nation of Israel ect. and that those nations would defend them if attacked that they would use those nations to divide the Muslim/Islamic countries into smaller territories with weaker unorganizd leaders which would exhaust the finances of those Christian nations at the same time. The just of it though is those Christian nations are on the same list to be conquered,just at the end when weak and no longer useful.
Oh.... Mr iamsoandso you see the end game coming right at us indeed.:(
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,951
664
113
Oh.... Mr iamsoandso you see the end game coming right at us indeed.:(

At the same time from when I posted what I did about the declaration of war at the beginning(and see how it could offend those not understanding Zionism) I knew they did not understand the economic reason for the embargo against Germany...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,440
9,524
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65
Florida
I stated no such thing, I was making a statement about human suffering being pervasive and a personal experience of how true that is.

Honestly, I have an undergraduate degree in International Relations as well as post graduate degrees and teach for a university and your assumptions are tiring.
Impressive education creds. I went to college for 2 years but didn't graduate.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,214
2,285
113
William E. Cox declared, “The historic Christian teaching holds that national Israel was a type or forerunner of the church, and that the church replaced Israel on the Day of Pentecost.” in Amillennialism Today pp 45-46.

Many believe it, and it is growing as biblical illiteracy is growing.
===========================================

this 'common teaching' would first, disannul' the O.T. - which would in turn, 'disannul' ALL the teachings of Christ,
'based on the O.T., - and it would 'disannul' Paul's writings - there would be very few words left in the scripture,
if this was a 'reality'...
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,214
2,285
113
Impressive education creds. I went to college for 2 years but didn't graduate.
==========================================
we're with you Tour,
she is impressive in many ways - and yet, she seems to have an humble and learning spirit...
:):)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Impressive education creds. I went to college for 2 years but didn't graduate.
Yeah life is a funny thing sometimes, start down one path and then end up somewhere else.

Mr. Tourist, as a woman (not feminist or anything) it gets a little tough to take when man think woman do not understand anything, I typically do not venture into something unless I have studied it out at least somewhat.

Can I say my parents forced me .... I keep saying "I am done" and they kept saying "No you need to finish what you started"....LOL Italians are like that. :)
History repeats and I said the same to my own kids....now I am paying the bills!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,518
2,455
113
I am not really sure who is a proponent of replacement theology and what the thinking is behind it, but would it seem reasonable that "church" means both spiritual Jew (born again) and spiritual gentile (born again).

On a spirtual level Israel is now Jesus and both are in Him, the spiritual gentile is grafted in.

Mr. Crossnote, the non spiritual Jew (unregenerate) is not part of this Israel correct?
Yes, Church consists of both believing Jew and Gentile.
Sometimes Jesus and Israel are used interchangeably but not always.
The unbelieving Jew has the promise extended to Him still, to be received by faith.
Half the problem is that 'replacement theology' overlooks the fact that the Promise of Messiah and the Abrahamic promises were unconditional promises, received only by faith and not dependent on works as the Mosaic Covenant was. So they say 'see, Israel was rejected because of Her disobedience". When they come to faith in their Messiah they are restored. They have no more been replaced than when God destroyed the Gentile world with the Flood. Romans 11 is a game changer when truly studied.

Another problem is many RT see Israel as a type that is fulfilled by the antitype...the Church. This is truly poor exegesis as well, as God deals with both groups, sometimes similarly and sometimes differently.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
==========================================
we're with you Tour,
she is impressive in many ways - and yet, she seems to have an humble and learning spirit...
:):)
Well God has taken me apart put me back together a few times so yes I am learning alright.:)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes, Church consists of both believing Jew and Gentile.
Sometimes Jesus and Israel are used interchangeably but not always.
The unbelieving Jew has the promise extended to Him still, to be received by faith.
Half the problem is that 'replacement theology' overlooks the fact that the Promise of Messiah and the Abrahamic promises were unconditional promises, received only by faith and not dependent on works as the Mosaic Covenant was. So they say 'see, Israel was rejected because of Her disobedience". When they come to faith in their Messiah they are restored. They have no more been replaced than when God destroyed the Gentile world with the Flood. Romans 11 is a game changer when truly studied.

Another problem is many RT see Israel as a type that is fulfilled by the antitype...the Church. This is truly poor exegesis as well, as God deals with both groups, sometimes similarly and sometimes differently.
Yes, I see.
I agree they have not been replaced.
I am still a little confused
So are you saying from your study of replacement theology that they believe all Jews have been rejected and cannot be part of the church?
I know about the view on Romans 11....okay well I have to get to other work, but when I have time I want to discuss Romans 11 from the preterist view, what do you think?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,440
9,524
113
65
Florida
Yeah life is a funny thing sometimes, start down one path and then end up somewhere else.

Mr. Tourist, as a woman (not feminist or anything) it gets a little tough to take when man think woman do not understand anything, I typically do not venture into something unless I have studied it out at least somewhat.

Can I say my parents forced me .... I keep saying "I am done" and they kept saying "No you need to finish what you started"....LOL Italians are like that. :)
History repeats and I said the same to my own kids....now I am paying the bills!!
I believe that you understand a lot about a lot of things.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,440
9,524
113
65
Florida
==========================================
we're with you Tour,
she is impressive in many ways - and yet, she seems to have an humble and learning spirit...
:):)
I agree. She is a tremendous asset to the community. So are you guys. :)