Why did God harden Pharaoh’s heart, rather than let them go right away?

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#81
What moron would not flee in terror unless God hardened his heart so he would not? This is before Moses went back to Egypt.

“And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.” Exodus 4:21 (KJV 1900)
The idea of hardening of heart is simply recognizing unbelief.

The hearts that are dead in the transgression are hard. Not made harder. The heart of natural man is simply not softening by work of God so a person can then believe.

God who is of one mind (no discussion or bargaining based on the clay ) always does whatsoever His soul pleases. He alone can create a new soft heart as he does work in the believer to both will and perform the work of softening hearts

The key to help the idea of Calvin is to the proper use of "all" as to "as many" is the phrase as many as. We should believe with murmuring .The we can know God has perform the good pleasure of his will. We walk by faith and are not of the number. Those with hard hearts who walk by sight. They could have a log in their eye.

Matthew 14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give
his life a ransom for many.

John 1:12 But
as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 8:30
As he spake these words, many believed on him
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,028
2,612
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#82
I'm sorry if I seemed too harsh, I didn't mean to "accuse" in such a hard lined way. Let me explain what I mean when I say you put restrictions on Gods power. I didn't mean it in a demeaning way or anything like that, what I mean is the way you make it seem as if Gods not in control in every way. As if God is in some way a spectator just kind of watching us to see what we do. As if every single decision we make, and I do believe we make decision obviously, is not only know by Him, but was a 100% preordained, authored, and carried out by His will and power for His glory.

I know this is a point we differ in perspective on, and I very much understand why to be honest, and I don't even want you to think I'm even trying to debate your view, I'm just trying to explain what I mean by restricting God'a power. I can not explain to you at all how God works His sovereignty fitting our wills into it, this is one of the biggest mystery's of God I personally have stumbled upon, but I do not believe God is a spectator sitting and "watching/already knowing", what we are going to do at in any way at all. I believe this "restriction" you're putting on God is that He is not 100% in control of everything at all time. That's about the best way I can describe it. I hope it makes sense enough you at least understand what I believe, and again I am really sorry it came off the way it did last time. I was in a rush and didn't explain how I meant that nearly well enough. I didn't mean it like you were "robbing" God or anything like that. :)(y)
Ok thanks for the way you replied and clarified..

We shall have to agree to disagree on this point..
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,210
1,343
113
#83
I'm sorry if I seemed too harsh, I didn't mean to "accuse" in such a hard lined way. Let me explain what I mean when I say you put restrictions on Gods power. I didn't mean it in a demeaning way or anything like that, what I mean is the way you make it seem as if Gods not in control in every way. As if God is in some way a spectator just kind of watching us to see what we do. As if every single decision we make, and I do believe we make decision obviously, is not only know by Him, but was a 100% preordained, authored, and carried out by His will and power for His glory.

I know this is a point we differ in perspective on, and I very much understand why to be honest, and I don't even want you to think I'm even trying to debate your view, I'm just trying to explain what I mean by restricting God'a power. I can not explain to you at all how God works His sovereignty fitting our wills into it, this is one of the biggest mystery's of God I personally have stumbled upon, but I do not believe God is a spectator sitting and "watching/already knowing", what we are going to do at in any way at all. I believe this "restriction" you're putting on God is that He is not 100% in control of everything at all time. That's about the best way I can describe it. I hope it makes sense enough you at least understand what I believe, and again I am really sorry it came off the way it did last time. I was in a rush and didn't explain how I meant that nearly well enough. I didn't mean it like you were "robbing" God or anything like that. :)(y)
Great way of giving that testimony. I would offer in a hope of adding as a example a portion on Philippians 2:. When God instructs the believe not to murmur but should rejoice at the power given to us in us to work out the will of the father.

The father instructs us in Hebrews 6 of the better things that accompany salvation. In so much that our loving father does remember the good works he works in us towards his name. Its us who can forget and start murmuring and searching for specs in others eye .
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#84
Hard hearts then that could be changed. God hardened the heart of Pharaoh prior to Moses leaving on God's mission and his heart would then not change because God assured it would not.
Where does Scripture indicate God hardened the heart of pharaoh prior to Moses leaving on God's mission?




Brandnewday said:
And God continued to harden Pharaoh's heart throughout until the last act, the killing of the first born of every Egyptian house. Which well enough did its part to revenge the loss of the Hebrew male children under Pharaoh before Moses.
Pharaoh's "introduction" to God:

Exodus 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.

Rather than respond "tell me more about the LORD God of Israel", pharaoh responded with:

Exodus 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.


God told Moses two times that He would harden pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, Ex 7:3), but it wasn't until Ex 7:13 that God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.


This hardening of pharaoh's heart occurred after Moses and Aaron had already approached pharaoh to request that the children of Israel be allowed to leave Egypt to worship God. Pharaoh hardened his own heart before God hardened his heart. If pharaoh had not hardened his own heart, he would have let the children of Israel go when Moses first asked in Ex 5:1.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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#85
Also the plagues were not chosen by God at random. They were aimed at Egypt's Gods and Goddesses
to show the Egyptians that they were false and powerless to protect them.
Yes.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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#86
If you read the story you will find that on the first two instances Pharaoh hardened His own heart.. After two times refusing to obey God.. God then kept Pharaoh's heart hard so that God could perform the miraculous miracles.. God did this i believe to leave the world in no doubt that it was God himself who was freeing the Hebrews from Egypt and that it was not Moses and Aaron..
Yes.



 
Mar 5, 2020
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#87
Where does Scripture indicate God hardened the heart of pharaoh prior to Moses leaving on God's mission?
Find it in Exodus.





Pharaoh's "introduction" to God:

Exodus 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.

Rather than respond "tell me more about the LORD God of Israel", pharaoh responded with:

Exodus 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.


God told Moses two times that He would harden pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, Ex 7:3), but it wasn't until Ex 7:13 that God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.


This hardening of pharaoh's heart occurred after Moses and Aaron had already approached pharaoh to request that the children of Israel be allowed to leave Egypt to worship God. Pharaoh hardened his own heart before God hardened his heart. If pharaoh had not hardened his own heart, he would have let the children of Israel go when Moses first asked in Ex 5:1.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#88
chapter and verse, please. thank you.

With the exception of "Find it in Exodus", your Post #87 consists of what I submitted in Post #84. Did you have any further response to what is posted in #84?


 
Mar 5, 2020
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#89
chapter and verse, please. thank you.

With the exception of "Find it in Exodus", your Post #87 consists of what I submitted in Post #84. Did you have any further response to what is posted in #84?
Exodus 4:21
The LORD instructed Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put within your power. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. "

Hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses returned to Egypt.

How do you miss that verse? Or the other one that explained it.
Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.
 

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
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Arizona
#90
If I remember correctly Pharaoh hardened his heart the first few times, then God did it afterward. I think God gave him the opportunity to do the right thing, and after so many times decided to use the opportunity then to humble and judge the Egyptians. Just like with Haman, I think God will put ungodly people up in certain positions so that their decline and fall is a very visible cautionary tale.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,003
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#91
Maybe to show His sovereignty to the Isrealites and to teach them and us that God will do what He see's fit, when He see's fit. God's timing is always on time. His ways are not ours. His thoughts not ours. He knows what He is doing. Ours is to trust and believe.
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
375
92
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#92
Hardening the heart wasn't causing Pharoah to reject the offer. God hardened, or strengthened, Pharaoh's will. He gave Pharaoh the fortitude to see out the desires of his heart in spite of a growing fear of judgment. At least, that's how I take it.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,922
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#93
I like how they did it in one of the movies...
The resistance and hardened response that Moses got was probably just like the resistance these events get today.
"A magic trick, a sleight of hand, don't buy this fellow priests, we know these same tricks" (probably the reaction when the rod turned into a snake, in the movie they accused him he threw a snake out of his sleeve)
"He must have colored the water with some chemical to trick us"
"This isn't a miracle but some natural phenomenon, there must be some logical explanation why is this going on"
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#94
Exodus 4:21
The LORD instructed Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put within your power. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. "
Hardened Pharaoh's heart before Moses returned to Egypt.

How do you miss that verse?
I did not "miss that verse" — In Post #84 I stated:

"God told Moses two times that He would harden pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, Ex 7:3), but it wasn't until Ex 7:13 that God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:
Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said."


In Ex 4:21, God told Moses "I will harden".
In Ex 7:3, God told Moses "I will harden".



In Ex 7:13 God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

God did not harden pharaoh's heart until after pharaoh had refused the request by Moses to let the people go.

Ex 4:21 and 7:3 are records of God telling Moses what He will do at some point in the future.

Ex 7:13 is God doing what He told Moses He would do.


But please note, Pharaoh refused to let the children of Israel go before God hardened his heart in Ex 7:13.




Brandnewday said:
Or the other one that explained it.
Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.
God's mercy is from everlasting to everlasting. The fact that descendants of Adam continue to be born to this day is a witness to God's mercy, as well as His grace, lovingkindness, benevolence, etc., etc.


In Exodus 9, Egyptians who believed what Moses spoke actually brought their servants and their cattle out of harm's way:

Exodus 9:

20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:

21 And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.


And in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel lived, there was no hail:

Exodus 9:26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.


God's grace and mercy was extended to the Israelites, as well as to those Egyptians who brought their servants and their cattle in from the fields.


The whole record of the children of Israel leaving Egypt reveals God's mercy. Comparing what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah with what happened in Egypt, the fact that Egypt still remained after the children of Israel left is indicative of God's mercy.
 
Mar 5, 2020
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#95
I did not "miss that verse" — In Post #84 I stated:

"God told Moses two times that He would harden pharaoh's heart (Ex 4:21, Ex 7:3), but it wasn't until Ex 7:13 that God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:
Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said."


In Ex 4:21, God told Moses "I will harden".
In Ex 7:3, God told Moses "I will harden".



In Ex 7:13 God actually hardened pharaoh's heart:

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

God did not harden pharaoh's heart until after pharaoh had refused the request by Moses to let the people go.

Ex 4:21 and 7:3 are records of God telling Moses what He will do at some point in the future.

Ex 7:13 is God doing what He told Moses He would do.


But please note, Pharaoh refused to let the children of Israel go before God hardened his heart in Ex 7:13.





God's mercy is from everlasting to everlasting. The fact that descendants of Adam continue to be born to this day is a witness to God's mercy, as well as His grace, lovingkindness, benevolence, etc., etc.

In Exodus 9, Egyptians who believed what Moses spoke actually brought their servants and their cattle out of harm's way:

Exodus 9:

20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:

21 And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.


And in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel lived, there was no hail:

Exodus 9:26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.


God's grace and mercy was extended to the Israelites, as well as to those Egyptians who brought their servants and their cattle in from the fields.


The whole record of the children of Israel leaving Egypt reveals God's mercy. Comparing what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah with what happened in Egypt, the fact that Egypt still remained after the children of Israel left is indicative of God's mercy.
What I'm trying to get at is, because God insured Pharaoh would never let the Israeli's go no matter how many plagues all of Egypt suffered, and that included the Israelite's, Pharaoh could have not let them go even if he wanted to. God made sure of that. God made sure Pharaoh would not let the Israelite's go no matter what. Until at the end of all that suffering he softened Pharaoh's heart after he killed all first born children in Egypt.

Sound familiar? No. Because the first born of the animals of Egypt died too. And this isn't the first time. https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Death-Of-The-Firstborn