Why Did God Turn His Back? POLL

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Why Did God Turn His Back On Jesus?

  • He couldn't stand seeing Jesus nailed to the cross

  • He didn't see Jesus as his son anymore

  • He couldn't stand to look at the sin of the world upon Jesus

  • He didn't want to hear Jesus in pain

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
Aug 12, 2013
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#41
You
A PROPHETIC ANSWER for CONFIRMATION.... The FATHER NEVER TURNED his back on his SON, NEVER did He do that. YAHOSHUA was QUOTING a SONG that DAVID WROTE, over a THOUSAND YEARS, before YAHOSHUA even walked the face of the EARTH, and this is what YAHOSHUA was SAYING to those who were listening to him. Even have a someone to say... TRULY THIS WAS the SON, of the FATHER. For no man would have known this, but YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... Psalms 22: 1 (To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.) My FATHER, my FATHER, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

It was the song of DAVID that YAHOSHUA was QUOTING while he was on that TREE/Cross, which David wrote, even down to the gambling of YAHOSHUA'S CLOTHES, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. Psalms 22: 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. Psalms 22: A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

My FATHER NEVER TURNED HIS BACK ON HIS SON, just like He would never turn his back on us.
This is why He sent his only SON YAHOSHUA, so through him we could be SAVED, have you not REA? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. John 10:1-5
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

For they never called the FATHER by the title of GOD. This was ADDED to the FATHER Scriptures, just as JESUS/YESHUA was, when YAHOSHUA LEFT THIS WORLD AGE, which is also when your FREE WILL TEST had BEGUN, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. YOSHUA/Joshua 24:14-15 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Shalom
Your aren't here to chat, discuss or debate, you're here to just make statements of your own beliefs using translations most people here don't use. I've realized I'm wasting my time trying to talk with you.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,062
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Florida
#42
Jesus is not EXACTLY God. I say this to everyone. He is of his Father, and he is also of himself. If you understand the Trinity, God, Jesus & Holy spirit, they are all 1 and yet 3 different beings. They are very alike with holiness, same thoughts, same beliefs, etc. But just like I am in my body and you are in yours, we have our own being.
The thing is, Jesus is EXACTLY God. Yes, there is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, three separate unique beings and personalities but comprising one God. If Jesus is not exactly God then neither is the Father or the Holy Spirit.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#43
A Prophetic word unto you.. We are SPIRIT BEINGS that are BILLIONS of YEARS OLD, called ADAM, throughout My FATHER'S Holy Scribes/Scriptures.. We are CELESTIAL in NATURE, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

This world is not only EIGHT THOUSAND YEAR OLD. It is BILLIONS of YEAR OLD, and so are our spirit bodies, that the FATHER put us into these MALE and FEMALE FLESH BODIES, only to come unto this SECOND EARTH AGE TO BE TESTED, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures..
Genesis 1:27-28 So the FATHER 'CREATED’ MAN [meaning your spirit man MILLIONS of YEAR ago[ created man in his own image, [meaning spirit] in the image of the FATHER [who is SPIRIT, just as we are OUTSIDE of these MALE and FEMALE flesh bodies that He put us into] created he him; male and female created he them. And the FATHER blessed them, [meaning the MALE and FEMALE called the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND] and the FATHER said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, [meaning have lots of babies, after the nations/nationalities in which I have CREATED you to become, through our ANCESTORS] and replenish the earth, meaning to put back what was, meaning live as in was MILLIONS of year ago, before the FATHER DESTROYED IT THROUGH HIS ANGER] and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, [they became great “FISHERMEN"] and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [and they became great “HUNTERS", called the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD who are YOU, and unto the JEWS, in whom the FATHER did not “FORM", unto TWO THOUSAND YEARS LATER, I AM, KNOWN AS MESSIAH. They are the GENTLE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES in whom My FATHER has called in these end times, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not read, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for MANY “FISHERS", saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for MANY “HUNTERS", [who were those that have found YAHOSHUA true name from out of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, those who have been GRAFTED into SALVATION through My name] and they shall hunt them [those who have become lost through their lies and traditions] from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

The FATHER told us this. When he said that He "CREATED" the BEHOMOTHS, with US. Us, meaning when we were in our spirit bodies, which these giant beasts of the land could not hurt us, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of the FATHER: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

Shalom
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,062
7,464
113
64
Florida
#44
You

Your aren't here to chat, discuss or debate, you're here to just make statements of your own beliefs using translations most people here don't use. I've realized I'm wasting my time trying to talk with you.
How do you make an assumption on what translations most people here use? Did you create a poll for this? Even so, this site has many members so you can't possibly know what bible translation they use or don't use.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,856
510
113
#45
I don't know for sure, but I always like the song Come Away my Fair One.... when as a child. It always brought a tear to my eye and made me thankful for Jesus.

Like I said I don't know for sure why God turned his back, but It would be hard for a father to look on his son being humiliated, beaten, and crucified.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#46
You

Your aren't here to chat, discuss or debate, you're here to just make statements of your own beliefs using translations most people here don't use. I've realized I'm wasting my time trying to talk with you.

A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOUR STATEMENTS.... No, I AM HERE TO TESTIFY UNTO THE CHURCHES, have you NOT READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Why DEBATE when you have the TRUTH, JUST READ.. For I AM NOT A SHAME for I have STUDIED for 40 YEARS to be able to bring the TRUTH of MY FATHER'S WORDS, not the LIES and TRADITIONS of MAN, that have MADE MY FATHER'S WORDS of NONE EFFECT, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. Mark 7:6-9 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of the FATHER ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of the FATHER, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:13-17 Making the word of the FATHER OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITIONS, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

If you want someone to lie, until believing the lies. I have come to AWAKEN those in whom My FATHER had CALLED ME TO AWAKEN, unto his NAME, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. John 17:6-9 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. John 17:15-20 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word.


I do not have time to play with you, or My FATHER'S HOLY SCRIPTURES. My SALVATION means much more to me, than that, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... John 1;7-12 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of The FATHER, even to them that believe on HIS NAME. 2 John 1:12-13 Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full. The children of Thy Elect Sister GREET THEE. Amen. Revelation 22:16-17 I YAHOSHUA HAVE SENT MINE “ANGEL", [which means a messenger] TO TESTIFY UNTO YOU THESE THINGS IN THE “CHURCHES”. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. AND THE “SPIRIT”, [who I AM, saith YAHOSHUA] and the “BRIDE” [who she is, who is speaking to you now] SAY COME. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

So not ALLOW YOURSELF TO AWAKEN, in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA, WHEN, WHERE, OR HOW YOU GO THERE, saith YAHOSHUA, who is the Christ, meaning the ANOINTED ONE, unto YOU, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH. For I have just made you ACCOUNTABLE, for this was also your VISITATION, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Luke 19:40-44 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.




Shalom
 
Aug 12, 2013
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#47
The thing is, Jesus is EXACTLY God. Yes, there is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, three separate unique beings and personalities but comprising one God. If Jesus is not exactly God then neither is the Father or the Holy Spirit.
by what you're saying you sound like you agree with me but you misunderstand how I see it. You are misunderstanding what I mean when I say EXACTLY.

Look, this is a parable I've used that some understand, if I have 3 cups, same brand and color same weight same design and same everything about them, they are the same as 1. They ONLY difference is that there is 3 cups. Let's say 1cup takes a sacrifice for the mini versions of the cups that were made in their image, that cup gets smashed. Does that mean the other 2 cups are smashed? No, just that one cup. That cup had taken the sacrifice rather than all mini cups being smashed. But the other 2 cups remain without harm where they always were. But the cup is put back together like brand new to be the same as it once was, and it returns to the right side of the middle cup like it was before.

In the spiritual perspective of the Lord, God Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same in every way, yet they are still like 3 individual beings. Humans are like the mini cups, made in their image. Jesus was like the smashed cup, when he went on the cross and died, God and the Holy Spirit weren't smashed or killed, but only Jesus. Jesus returns to the right hand of God and renewed after his resurrection.

Again no one has answered.
If Jesus and God are completely the same and not individuals in any way at all, how could Jesus be at the right hand of God if God is on the center throne? Why do they keep using plural descriptions if they aren't 2 different beings? Why does Jesus keep referring to his father if he is the father? How does God speak from heaven to Jesus on earth if God is Jesus on earth? Was Jesus just in heaven and on earth at the same time?
Why do we have to go through Jesus to get to God, but we can't go to God to get to God if they are EXACTLY the same?
Why does it keep saying Jesus took the sacrifice instead of God and Jesus and Holy Spirit? Do we just feel like leaving them out of it and assume we all know that?
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#48
How do you make an assumption on what translations most people here use? Did you create a poll for this? Even so, this site has many members so you can't possibly know what bible translation they use or don't use.[/QUOTE

A PROPHETIC Answer.. Just know this. You have been WARNED, SO when you AWAKEN in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU GOT THERE. Then this CONVERSATION WILL COME BACK INTO YOUR MEMORY, saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ, unto YOU, and unto the JEWS, that did NOT RECEIVE ME, WHEN I CAME UNTO THEM,. I AM MESSIAH.
Shalom
 
L

LPT

Guest
#49
A Prophetic word unto you.. We are SPIRIT BEINGS that are BILLIONS of YEARS OLD, called ADAM, throughout My FATHER'S Holy Scribes/Scriptures.. We are CELESTIAL in NATURE, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

This world is not only EIGHT THOUSAND YEAR OLD. It is BILLIONS of YEAR OLD, and so are our spirit bodies, that the FATHER put us into these MALE and FEMALE FLESH BODIES, only to come unto this SECOND EARTH AGE TO BE TESTED, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures..
Genesis 1:27-28 So the FATHER 'CREATED’ MAN [meaning your spirit man MILLIONS of YEAR ago[ created man in his own image, [meaning spirit] in the image of the FATHER [who is SPIRIT, just as we are OUTSIDE of these MALE and FEMALE flesh bodies that He put us into] created he him; male and female created he them. And the FATHER blessed them, [meaning the MALE and FEMALE called the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND] and the FATHER said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, [meaning have lots of babies, after the nations/nationalities in which I have CREATED you to become, through our ANCESTORS] and replenish the earth, meaning to put back what was, meaning live as in was MILLIONS of year ago, before the FATHER DESTROYED IT THROUGH HIS ANGER] and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, [they became great “FISHERMEN"] and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [and they became great “HUNTERS", called the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD who are YOU, and unto the JEWS, in whom the FATHER did not “FORM", unto TWO THOUSAND YEARS LATER, I AM, KNOWN AS MESSIAH. They are the GENTLE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES in whom My FATHER has called in these end times, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not read, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Jeremiah 16:16 Behold, I will send for MANY “FISHERS", saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for MANY “HUNTERS", [who were those that have found YAHOSHUA true name from out of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, those who have been GRAFTED into SALVATION through My name] and they shall hunt them [those who have become lost through their lies and traditions] from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

The FATHER told us this. When he said that He "CREATED" the BEHOMOTHS, with US. Us, meaning when we were in our spirit bodies, which these giant beasts of the land could not hurt us, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of the FATHER: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

Shalom
Ever heard of the M&M scale?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,856
510
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#52
Ever heard of the M&M scale?
Well, I've never heard of it. Is it something like being weighed in the balance and found wanting like what was talked about in Daniel.:unsure:
 
L

LPT

Guest
#53
Why did God turn his back on Jesus? We get the idea he did from "My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?"

I know the answer, but it is highly and widely misunderstood. I don't know if most people in the world know it, but not most Christian's I have met. I'd like to hear what you believe. Not for the point of us to debate or argue, though sometimes to find truth you need to, but that others can see different sides and look at the whole picture and help them see the truth. I know a lot of us can bring up scripture and still disagree, but like I said, it is widely misunderstood scripture.

Ready when you guys are. ;)
If you could provide verses in the Bible that says that I would like to see them, and Matthew 27:46 doesn’t count for it doesn’t say God turned His back.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#54
If you could provide verses in the Bible that says that I would like to see them, and Matthew 27:46 doesn’t count for it doesn’t say God turned His back.
A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOU. MY FATHER NEVER EVER TURNED HIS BACK ON YAHOSHUA.. It does not say that the FATHER turned his back on HIS SON, BECAUSE HE DID NOT. He was QUOTING PSALMS 22:1 (To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.) My FATHER, my FATHER, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
 
L

LPT

Guest
#55
Well, I've never heard of it. Is it something like being weighed in the balance and found wanting like what was talked about in Daniel.:unsure:
Hehe naw, it’s like this...

 
L

LPT

Guest
#57
A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOU. MY FATHER NEVER EVER TURNED HIS BACK ON YAHOSHUA.. It does not say that the FATHER turned his back on HIS SON, BECAUSE HE DID NOT. He was QUOTING PSALMS 22:1 (To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.) My FATHER, my FATHER, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Yes indeed my friend and while I wait.


Psalm 6:6
I am weary from groaning; all night I flood my bed with weeping and drench my couch with tears.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
123
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#60
A Prophetic word unto you. When the FATHER was saying LET US MAKE MAN.. in our IMAGE, meaning SPIRIT. For we are CELESTIAL BEING, male in gender, for the FATHER never CREATED a FEMALE SPIRIT being in the spirit realm, because He did not need a WOMB. For we are not giving and taking in marriage, in the spirit realm, for we are as ANGELS, saith YAHOSHUA, we are called SONS of Abba, which means FATHER, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.. Matthew 22:29-30 YAHOSHUA answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of the FATHER. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of the FATHER in heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

We are spirit beings that are Billions of years old, that was PUT INTO THESE MALE and FEMALE flesh bodies only to be able to come unto this SECOND EARTH AGE to be TESTED, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is the Christ unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...YOSHUA/Joshua 24"13-15 And I have given you a land for which ye did not labour, and cities which ye built not, and ye dwell in them; of the vineyards and oliveyards which ye planted not do ye eat. Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

These FLESH BODIES, PROFIT NOTHING TO THE FATHER. It is our SPIRIT man whose name is ADAM, that the FATHER is ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This is why we will all be CHANGED, not to go anywhere, because YAHOSHUA is COMING UNTO US. But we have to be changed to be able to see our TRUE SAVIOR, for he is never coming unto us as a HUMAN as He has done to our ANCESTORS before us. When He comes to us. He is coming in his "GLORY" which means His SPIRIT BODY. For flesh and BLOOD will never enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN, nor will it EVER KNEEL or STAND, in the presence of our TRUE SAVIOR, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of the FATHER; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL BE CHANGED, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We shall ALL, not some, but ALL SHALL BE CHANGED, for no one is being left anywhere. For Heaven is coming to this EARTH, same EARTH, just ANOTHER EARTH AGE, which is the LAST ONE. which is called HEAVEN ON EARTH, as in was in the BEGINNING, so shall it be AGAIN. ONCE, YAHOSHUA CLEANS IT UP, and brings it back to how it was in the BEGINNING, BILLIONS OF YEAR AGO.

Shalom
Hey! calledoutones7... Wow!
1 Cor 15: 44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
1 Cor 15: 46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterwards that which is spiritual."

We are not eternal into the past, because unlike the Lord, we have a beginning; when we were born into this world. We'll get our spiritual bodies, which will be just like Jesus' resurrection body, before the end of the great tribulation; and thus it shall be on into eternity. My spirit is my innermost self, where the Holy Spirit indwells; and Adam's spirit is his innermost self and both of us will be in New Jerusalem, dwelling in the house of the Lord forever. Yiikes, at how unscriptural some of your other statements sound.
PTL, forever!