Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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Aug 12, 2013
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#61
The OT laws are typically a topic that comes up in most Bible forums. This article brings out some very good points when we ask ourselves this question today.
Blessings.



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Reading through the Old Testament can be a jarring experience, even for Christians. The early Bible is practically brimming with commands and laws which sound contrary to Christ’s message today. Do you enjoy eating shrimp? Sorry, that’s against the rules (Leviticus 11:10). Not a fan of beards? Well that’s just too bad (Leviticus 19:27). Showing off your new tattoo? You ought to be ashamed (Leviticus 19:28)!

To someone outside the Church, it looks as though Christians are cherry-picking which verses they want to follow. That’s why author and theologian J.D. Greer believes it’s necessary for Christians to educate themselves on the three categories of Old-Testament law. In a recent blog post he writes,
“One of the most helpful ways to think about this is to look at the types of laws there are in the Old Testament. The 16th-century Reformer John Calvin saw that the NT seemed to treat the OT laws in three ways. There were Civil Laws, which governed the nation of Israel, encompassing not only behaviors, but also punishments for crimes. There were Ceremonial Laws about ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ things, about various kinds of sacrifices, and other temple practices. And then there were the Moral Laws, which declared what God deemed right and wrong—the 10 Commandments, for instance.”
“For OT Israel, all three types of laws blended together. Breaking a civil or a ceremonial law was a moral problem; conversely, breaking a moral law had a civil (and often ceremonial) consequence. But they only went hand-in-hand because Israel was in a unique place historically, as both a nation and a worshiping community. ‘Separation of church and state’ wasn’t one of their core tenets. That’s not the case for the Church today, so the way we view the Law would have to look different.”


Greer goes on to argue that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law (Matthew 5:17). By this, he means that the original laws pointed toward God and his design for humanity. Jesus now serves as a living embodiment of both law and grace, allowing us to put aside the Civil and Ceremonial laws of Israel. This traditional approach is shared by the majority of Biblical scholars, including men such as Dr. Roger Barrier, who writes,
“Like many of the Ten Commandments, prohibitions against stealing and adultery and coveting transcend time and space. Jesus fulfilled the moral law by His perfect righteousness. Every commandment He obeyed. Every requirement He met. He lived up to every standard. He died for it on the cross...”
“In considering which parts of the Old Testament we can ignore and which we keep, we must delve into the concept of cultural differences. Many of the Laws are not applicable for us. We must compare their culture to ours in order to have good application.”


Instead of avoiding the complex subject of Old Testament laws, Christians should embrace the chance to study their faith. The world expects us to have answers when they start probing our beliefs, and it’s vital that believers be ready to speak the word of God with conviction. So don’t be afraid to read books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy, they’re just the beginning of God’s great story.
*Published 4/5/2016
I say this with honesty and love, but old testament doesn't go against beards, tattoos and those other things in general. People often read the OT without paying attention to WHY, WHERE and for HOW LONG God intends for them to keep those laws. They just pay attention to WHAT pretty much.

The scripture in Leviticus says "not to mark your bodies for the dead." But people keep taking it as "Don't mark your bodies. PERIOD."
That's taking it out of context, not studying the meaning of why God would make such a law, but still, I know many preachers come up with sermons and work their own way to making up stuff and try to convince you with other scriptures that don't relate to the subject.

God told them not to eat certain things as well. Yet, all of us pretty much do in this country and have been across the world for thousands of years. God doesn't have a problem with it obviously, but it did say to not eat certain meat for certain reasons in the old testament- but that was for a certain time, in a certain place for certain reasons, it isn't for any of us today.

Overall, OT commandments, some are to still be kept or else they would cause us to sin, such as not to steal and murder, but some were just for certain purposes. Such as God telling Israel to kill clean lambs. Do they need to do that anymore? It was a commandment for their sins. But they don't need to mind that stuff now because of what Christ had done. There was all this countless stuff about "being clean," but it was all more of a symbol for the coming of Christ when he would die for our sins by his grace and save us by his sacrifice in paying our debt and washing our sins away forever.

Some laws are to stay in just certain countries, but all countries should at least have some similar laws, such as no murder or rape. But we have no need to make some laws as others do because there are no needs to, but in other countries there are. Some laws have passed, so are being made new. That is similar to the OT laws. But NT makes it clear to quit trying to just follow laws and start following the will of God, be like Christ and love. He said love and you will have obey all his commandments.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,656
464
83
#62
I am not comoplaining. If yo look at many of my posts I implore those who say bey love Jesus to learn from Him, and, it falls on deaf ears most of the time.

As for the OT, I also remind folks that the OT contains the NT, the problem is that instead of making at least the OT plus at least the Gosepels and Revelation one book, man has divided them into two books, this should not be.

Also I ask people to hear Jesus when He teaches how the law is to be obeyed under mercy...
I agree. Thank you for all you do.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,199
5,816
113
53
#63
Because it is what scripture teaches. We come to God in faith and coming to God nothing we do has any merit. However once we have accepted Jesus Christ, we are to live faithfully. I remind you of what happened to the Israelites who were also promised something that did not come to pass because they did not live faithfully.
Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

So just how faithfully must you live "in addition" to placing faith in Christ for salvation in order to be saved? :unsure: Where do you draw the line in the sand? From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

That is a far cry from salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,656
464
83
#64
I say this with honesty and love, but old testament doesn't go against beards, tattoos and those other things in general. People often read the OT without paying attention to WHY, WHERE and for HOW LONG God intends for them to keep those laws. They just pay attention to WHAT pretty much.

The scripture in Leviticus says "not to mark your bodies for the dead." But people keep taking it as "Don't mark your bodies. PERIOD."
That's taking it out of context, not studying the meaning of why God would make such a law, but still, I know many preachers come up with sermons and work their own way to making up stuff and try to convince you with other scriptures that don't relate to the subject.

God told them not to eat certain things as well. Yet, all of us pretty much do in this country and have been across the world for thousands of years. God doesn't have a problem with it obviously, but it did say to not eat certain meat for certain reasons in the old testament- but that was for a certain time, in a certain place for certain reasons, it isn't for any of us today.

Overall, OT commandments, some are to still be kept or else they would cause us to sin, such as not to steal and murder, but some were just for certain purposes. Such as God telling Israel to kill clean lambs. Do they need to do that anymore? It was a commandment for their sins. But they don't need to mind that stuff now because of what Christ had done. There was all this countless stuff about "being clean," but it was all more of a symbol for the coming of Christ when he would die for our sins by his grace and save us by his sacrifice in paying our debt and washing our sins away forever.

Some laws are to stay in just certain countries, but all countries should at least have some similar laws, such as no murder or rape. But we have no need to make some laws as others do because there are no needs to, but in other countries there are. Some laws have passed, so are being made new. That is similar to the OT laws. But NT makes it clear to quit trying to just follow laws and start following the will of God, be like Christ and love. He said love and you will have obey all his commandments.
God doesn't tell you all of the why's. Often when you obey God you are moving mountains spiritually, but without understanding just what mountains you are moving.

In OT times people obeyed the Lord by giving the life blood of innocent animals for sin, but Christ hadn't come in the flesh yet to show them what innocent blood does or that it was related to the blood Christ would shed, they just obeyed. And through Christ their sins were forgiven.

God gave mankind rituals to help them visualize what God meant for them to obey. They were to accept God and not make false Gods to worship. God had them accept the way He created materials they used without changing them to illustrate this. Now, we are changing foods from how they are created and it is harming our bodies. God sent the Holy Spirit to us to lead us now, we should listen.

You could reason through, with reason leading to a dim understanding of the ways of God, it would be much much better to trust God enough to obey.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,656
464
83
#65
Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

So just how faithfully must you live "in addition" to placing faith in Christ for salvation in order to be saved? :unsure: Where do you draw the line in the sand? From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

That is a far cry from salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Romans 3:22-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..)
People go on and on about salvation without saying a word about living in harmony with God leading to joy.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#66
Because it is what scripture teaches. We come to God in faith and coming to God nothing we do has any merit. However once we have accepted Jesus Christ, we are to live faithfully. I remind you of what happened to the Israelites who were also promised something that did not come to pass because they did not live faithfully.
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

Romans 5:17For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

101
Verses that Teach:
Salvation
is NOT
by Works!
A Handy, Quick
Reference Guide
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#67
I say this with honesty and love, but old testament doesn't go against beards, tattoos and those other things in general. People often read the OT without paying attention to WHY, WHERE and for HOW LONG God intends for them to keep those laws. They just pay attention to WHAT pretty much.

The scripture in Leviticus says "not to mark your bodies for the dead." But people keep taking it as "Don't mark your bodies. PERIOD."
That's taking it out of context, not studying the meaning of why God would make such a law, but still, I know many preachers come up with sermons and work their own way to making up stuff and try to convince you with other scriptures that don't relate to the subject.

God told them not to eat certain things as well. Yet, all of us pretty much do in this country and have been across the world for thousands of years. God doesn't have a problem with it obviously, but it did say to not eat certain meat for certain reasons in the old testament- but that was for a certain time, in a certain place for certain reasons, it isn't for any of us today.

Overall, OT commandments, some are to still be kept or else they would cause us to sin, such as not to steal and murder, but some were just for certain purposes. Such as God telling Israel to kill clean lambs. Do they need to do that anymore? It was a commandment for their sins. But they don't need to mind that stuff now because of what Christ had done. There was all this countless stuff about "being clean," but it was all more of a symbol for the coming of Christ when he would die for our sins by his grace and save us by his sacrifice in paying our debt and washing our sins away forever.

Some laws are to stay in just certain countries, but all countries should at least have some similar laws, such as no murder or rape. But we have no need to make some laws as others do because there are no needs to, but in other countries there are. Some laws have passed, so are being made new. That is similar to the OT laws. But NT makes it clear to quit trying to just follow laws and start following the will of God, be like Christ and love. He said love and you will have obey all his commandments.
Did you read the article?
I ask because your wonderful reply seems to indicate you did not.

(Excerpt) "....
Greer goes on to argue that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law (Matthew 5:17). By this, he means that the original laws pointed toward God and his design for humanity. Jesus now serves as a living embodiment of both law and grace, allowing us to put aside the Civil and Ceremonial laws of Israel. This traditional approach is shared by the majority of Biblical scholars, including men such as Dr. Roger Barrier, who writes,
“Like many of the Ten Commandments, prohibitions against stealing and adultery and coveting transcend time and space. Jesus fulfilled the moral law by His perfect righteousness. Every commandment He obeyed. Every requirement He met. He lived up to every standard. He died for it on the cross...”
“In considering which parts of the Old Testament we can ignore and which we keep, we must delve into the concept of cultural differences. Many of the Laws are not applicable for us. We must compare their culture to ours in order to have good application.”


Instead of avoiding the complex subject of Old Testament laws, Christians should embrace the chance to study their faith. The world expects us to have answers when they start probing our beliefs, and it’s vital that believers be ready to speak the word of God with conviction. So don’t be afraid to read books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy, they’re just the beginning of God’s great story. "
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,403
1,769
113
#68
The law of Moses was never written to or intended for Gentiles. Gentiles were never under the law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
113
#69
Too much fine print BigSmile.gif
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#70
the entire premise of these law and Sabbath keepers revolves around the false accusation that those who actually understand the Atonement somehow are devoid of obedience or love or desire to actually follow Christ

wake up

your slumber is blinding you to the truth and freedom in Jesus Christ our Lord

there is a verse in Proverbs that refers to an undeserved curse not having effect: Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, So a curse without cause does not alight. Proverbs 26:2

so for all the anger and false accusations being tossed around here by Jaume and a few others, take note. your false words have no meaning either and do nothing but point the accusing finger back at yourself. these threads are among the worst here at CC and any Christian forum

they confuse newborns in Christ and create a false dichotomy between the law and new life in Christ

can anyone work up the love of God in their hearts? how many laws must one keep in order to appear righteous in Gods' eyes? or is the desire to score with God (an insult by the way) and receive pats on the back from like minded souls the driving factor?

be assured, each Christian keeps all laws at least as well as the ones to whom it was given
I think it a disservice to newborn Christians especially to impart the false idea that the laws of God are irrelevant today to the Christian.
Jesus spoke of the laws he intended to bring forward for remembrance in his teachings. And he was the Lord that gave the law in the OT.
The moral laws for instance. Also known as the Ten Commandments.
Those apply today. They demonstrate in the keeping of them the love of God and the love of one another. To love God with all our hearts and minds, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two great commands that Jesus taught doth hang all the laws and the teachings of the Prophets in the old testament.

In certain nomenclature today it would appear the term Sabbath Keeper is intended to impart insult to those who keep the Sabbath.
When Jesus teaches the Sabbath was made for us, we were not made for the Sabbath.
Jesus demonstrated man's prosecution in the OT days of those who were found to be working on the Sabbath day was wrong. Jesus himself worked on the Sabbath. He healed people on the Sabbath. This was to show that one can keep the Sabbath and work in service to God and for the Kingdom.
Sabbath rest is an opportunity for any Christian that chooses to set a day aside, if they wish to follow the tradition, that day begins sundown on Friday unto sundown on Saturday, and serve God and take time to be in meditation with his holy spirit. It isn't a mandate. It i a choice. And an opportunity.
Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath. He was God who after creation ordained the Sabbath day as his day of rest. It predates the Ten Commandments.

God forbid any Christian ignore the old testament moral laws. If they do they're a lousy human being.



And for any Christian that wishes to keep the Sabbath day holy, do so if you wish. Don't let anyone imply you are wrong in honoring your time with God. Rather, on that day if you choose to keep the Sabbath , pray for those who rebuked you trying to use the scripture as a weapon to offend.
God will never condemn you for keeping the Sabbath. He may have something to say to those who mocked , ridiculed, or attacked your faith for doing so however.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#71
People go on and on about salvation without saying a word about living in harmony with God leading to joy.
I thought that was a natural gift that presented itself with Salvation.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#72
The law of Moses was never written to or intended for Gentiles. Gentiles were never under the law.
That too is another argument many newborn Christians will encounter. Not just here but elsewhere.

It is false.
The best thing a newborn Christian can do for their own sake is to read the new testament in its entirety. Omitting Revelation because that is a bit much for a newborn.
Then begin to read the Old Testament so as to know from whence the New sprang. This way the newborn Christian will be able to discern false teachings, false statements, like the one quoted above, so as not to be misled by either those of ill intent, or those who are not aware themselves.

Romans 2:12 For all who sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law. 13 For not the hearers of the Law are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For whenever Gentiles not having the Law by nature do the things of the Law, these not having the Law in themselves are the Law; 15 such people exhibit the work of the Law written in their hearts, with their conscientiousness bearing witness, and with the thoughts accusing or indeed defending in the midst of one another, 16 on that day when God judges the hidden things of people according to my gospel through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:12-16)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,659
14,188
113
#73
I went back to copy from your post to check myself and it came out: O.T. law was designed to prove our guilt. Doesn't seem hard to understand. I read something entirely different in the 1195h Psalm. That tells me God wrote the law to show us His love for us.
Sure...by proving our guilt and then poining us to CHRIST <<-IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.....

Romans 3...EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.....

The bigger picture->>>BEFORE WE CAN KNOW THAT WE NEED THE DOCTOR AND TO BE HEALED WE MUST KNOW THAT WE ARE SICK<--The law deems our guilt and sickness because no one has kept it or will keep it except JESUS......

A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND this truth!!
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
68
28
#74
God doesn't tell you all of the why's. Often when you obey God you are moving mountains spiritually, but without understanding just what mountains you are moving.

In OT times people obeyed the Lord by giving the life blood of innocent animals for sin, but Christ hadn't come in the flesh yet to show them what innocent blood does or that it was related to the blood Christ would shed, they just obeyed. And through Christ their sins were forgiven.

God gave mankind rituals to help them visualize what God meant for them to obey. They were to accept God and not make false Gods to worship. God had them accept the way He created materials they used without changing them to illustrate this. Now, we are changing foods from how they are created and it is harming our bodies. God sent the Holy Spirit to us to lead us now, we should listen.

You could reason through, with reason leading to a dim understanding of the ways of God, it would be much much better to trust God enough to obey.
I didn't say God tells everyone all the why's.
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
68
28
#75
God doesn't tell you all of the why's. Often when you obey God you are moving mountains spiritually, but without understanding just what mountains you are moving.

In OT times people obeyed the Lord by giving the life blood of innocent animals for sin, but Christ hadn't come in the flesh yet to show them what innocent blood does or that it was related to the blood Christ would shed, they just obeyed. And through Christ their sins were forgiven.

God gave mankind rituals to help them visualize what God meant for them to obey. They were to accept God and not make false Gods to worship. God had them accept the way He created materials they used without changing them to illustrate this. Now, we are changing foods from how they are created and it is harming our bodies. God sent the Holy Spirit to us to lead us now, we should listen.

You could reason through, with reason leading to a dim understanding of the ways of God, it would be much much better to trust God enough to obey.
if you simply just understand the basics of God is, you know he does everything for a reason, and the reasons are obvious. So obvious, he doesn't need to tell a Christian what it is if they are truly saved.
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
68
28
#76
if you simply just understand the basics of God is, you know he does everything for a reason, and the reasons are obvious. So obvious, he doesn't need to tell a Christian what it is if they are truly saved.
and it isn't that it is just obvious in thin air, no, scripture is the proof of it. But to not recognize why God didn't say why literally in OT, you should know the answers why he did in the NT
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
68
28
#77
Did you read the article?
I ask because your wonderful reply seems to indicate you did not.

(Excerpt) "....
Greer goes on to argue that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law (Matthew 5:17). By this, he means that the original laws pointed toward God and his design for humanity. Jesus now serves as a living embodiment of both law and grace, allowing us to put aside the Civil and Ceremonial laws of Israel. This traditional approach is shared by the majority of Biblical scholars, including men such as Dr. Roger Barrier, who writes,
“Like many of the Ten Commandments, prohibitions against stealing and adultery and coveting transcend time and space. Jesus fulfilled the moral law by His perfect righteousness. Every commandment He obeyed. Every requirement He met. He lived up to every standard. He died for it on the cross...”
“In considering which parts of the Old Testament we can ignore and which we keep, we must delve into the concept of cultural differences. Many of the Laws are not applicable for us. We must compare their culture to ours in order to have good application.”


Instead of avoiding the complex subject of Old Testament laws, Christians should embrace the chance to study their faith. The world expects us to have answers when they start probing our beliefs, and it’s vital that believers be ready to speak the word of God with conviction. So don’t be afraid to read books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy, they’re just the beginning of God’s great story. "
I'm not responding to the article alone, I am saying the Bible doesn't go against a man having a beard, tattoos and all that other stuff.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#78
I'm not responding to the article alone, I am saying the Bible doesn't go against a man having a beard, tattoos and all that other stuff.
The scripture doesn't forbid men having beards. (LINK)

While cutting, branding as happens now in some cases, and tattoos were forbidden. And being the God that gave these commands for personal hygeine and bodily maintenance is the same God as we worship today through the son Jesus, unless there is an amendment in the NT that says tatt's are OK, the rule stands.
And rightly so actually. The body is a temple of the holy spirit. Why should it carry graffiti upon itself? (This would be for the Christian not for the person who was tattooed prior to finding Christ.)
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.


Health wise there are issues too. Standard tattoo inks deposit in the liver. Red ink will still be in the liver long after a person's tatt's have been let to fade or have been lasered off. It is toxic being it is made of red dye #40.

Leviticus 19:28
KJV
28:Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
533
113
#79
Sure...by proving our guilt and then poining us to CHRIST <<-IT IS NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.....

Romans 3...EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL THE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.....

The bigger picture->>>BEFORE WE CAN KNOW THAT WE NEED THE DOCTOR AND TO BE HEALED WE MUST KNOW THAT WE ARE SICK<--The law deems our guilt and sickness because no one has kept it or will keep it except JESUS......

A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND this truth!!
Why is it you think you teach the words of God using condescension , sarcasm, mockery and ridicule as tactics? Jesus did not teach in this manner.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,659
14,188
113
#80
Why is it you think you teach the words of God using condescension , sarcasm, mockery and ridicule as tactics? Jesus did not teach in this manner.
Hahahahahhaah OK......blind leaders of the blind, white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men <-- terms of endearment.........Did not John use a generation of snakes a vipers....and Elijah Mock the prophets of Baal.....

Why do you think you need to respond to me and interject yourself into a convo you are not even involved in....? Go bark up someone else's tree!!