Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
14,048
1,465
113
First
You ignore what Jesus said about the law!
That he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. That the law will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear.

Second
The definition of sin is breaking the law. This implies that the law is in place.

Christians use the term sin but too many don't know the basic definition of it.
What?! I have posted your post info many times except for one part you overlook.

Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it." I understand what He is teacing in this lesson.
 
Oct 13, 2017
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What?! I have posted your post info many times except for one part you overlook.

Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it." I understand what He is teacing in this lesson.
ROFL
I overlooked? I repeat part of my post.
First
You ignore what Jesus said about the law!
That he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. That the law will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
14,048
1,465
113
ROFL
I overlooked? I repeat part of my post.
First
You ignore what Jesus said about the law!
That he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. That the law will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear.

Beign members of the Body of Yeshua in this age, we cotinue as He did, obeying the law according to how He teaches it is.

He has made the vast majority of the laws unnecessary for His Body members to continue in, but we are to obey all laws which are merciful and in the make-up of love.

Anyone who has learned from Jesus Christ would never teach against the law, his ne character obeys because the remain, though also in print, are on our hearts.

In order to attract more to Jesus Christ we must be as much as He as is given us to be possible.

Do not teach against the law, it is here while there is a heaven and earth, perhaps longer…...I do know Love is eternal.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
14,048
1,465
113
ROFL
I overlooked? I repeat part of my post.
First
You ignore what Jesus said about the law!
That he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. That the law will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear.
Just a foot note, there is no room for laughter regarding the knowledge given us by Jesus Christ, so if you feel like "ROFL," watch cartoons.
 
Oct 13, 2017
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Just a foot note, there is no room for laughter regarding the knowledge given us by Jesus Christ, so if you feel like "ROFL," watch cartoons.
Go take a long walk on a short pier. Jesus used humor in his ministry. Get a life.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
778
179
43
How can any person who claims he is in Christ not study the O? How can they know how the law is to be approached now without understanding the futility of the law without Jesus having fulfilled most of it??...
So many people agree with you that the law is futile. They based this on the fact that God is a Holy God who has the law as part of His very being so no human can obey law enough to be saved by God. For that the law is futile.

But to me the law, other than that one fact, is everything the 119th psalm tells us it is. Just to begin with this scripture describing the everlasting law it tells us the law is wonderful, truth, precious, better than gold, trustworthy, and everlasting. It preserves life, frees us, gives comfort, makes us wise, and gives us good judgment. This is a partial list.

All of the laws that our governments have are based on these laws for even atheist know they make our world work. Yet, for the Christians the law is only to convince us of guilt, obedience to it only makes us wrongly feel self righteous, and it is only legalistic and given to us as hard mean rules that destroys love.

Paul's letters often discuss the problem of law bringing out ways it can be used wrong but every single time the letters conclude with the truth of the law in the 119th psalm, telling us to obey. Few Christians speak of this conclusion, only that the law is a negative to be avoided. I don't think they are right.

I think the conclusion Christians have made that the law is to be avoided and is wrong is saying God is wrong and kills the Christ spirit that should be within them.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
778
179
43
Just a foot note, there is no room for laughter regarding the knowledge given us by Jesus Christ, so if you feel like "ROFL," watch cartoons.
I am sorry Jaumel, to post how I think about the law in response to you. You promote the law more than any other poster, my antenna went up over "Jesus fulfilled the law". As I reread your post I think you meant it as scripture has it: that Jesus is the lamb of Passover given for our salvation. So many read this as saying that the law is over and done with, that Jesus changed the written law because Jesus explained it to us better than ever before. They read that Jesus fulfilled as saying that Jesus put a stop to the law when Jesus added love to what was written.
 
Oct 13, 2017
3,308
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So many people agree with you that the law is futile. They based this on the fact that God is a Holy God who has the law as part of His very being so no human can obey law enough to be saved by God. For that the law is futile.

But to me the law, other than that one fact, is everything the 119th psalm tells us it is. Just to begin with this scripture describing the everlasting law it tells us the law is wonderful, truth, precious, better than gold, trustworthy, and everlasting. It preserves life, frees us, gives comfort, makes us wise, and gives us good judgment. This is a partial list.

All of the laws that our governments have are based on these laws for even atheist know they make our world work. Yet, for the Christians the law is only to convince us of guilt, obedience to it only makes us wrongly feel self righteous, and it is only legalistic and given to us as hard mean rules that destroys love.

Paul's letters often discuss the problem of law bringing out ways it can be used wrong but every single time the letters conclude with the truth of the law in the 119th psalm, telling us to obey. Few Christians speak of this conclusion, only that the law is a negative to be avoided. I don't think they are right.

I think the conclusion Christians have made that the law is to be avoided and is wrong is saying God is wrong and kills the Christ spirit that should be within them.
Do you know what the law states? Here it is. Maimonides gathered them together since they are scattered throughout the Torah. There are 613 of them. They are divided in many ways. All, men, women, location only etc. etc. Just try keeping them perfectly. Only Jesus did it.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
Aug 27, 2017
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How can any person who claims he is in Christ not study the O? How can they know how the law is to be approached now without understanding the futility of the law without Jesus having fulfilled most of it??

It is certain some crackpot obedience basher will come in saying to obey the Law according to Jesus is being under the law; avoid such ignorance, it is dangerous, and teaches disobedience of Jesus, for He tells us He did not destroy the law. He does fulfull most of it while what we should follow that fall within the parameters of God's Love is our new natural character, given us by the Holy Spirit.

In addition Jesus warns all who teach against even the least of the law that any who do this will be least in the Kingdom.

Again, if someone does not hear and do as Jesus teaaches in this area, avoid them for they do not hear Jesus. I say this with a clar and good conscience in the sight of our Fadther, Jesus...

I have studied the OT and continue to do so. you need the foundation to better understand the New Covenant

I wonder why law keepers continue to bash the New Covenant

perhaps studying that, will help people to understand why we are no longer and were never...under OT law

no one in this forum has EVER taught against the law as far as I know. it is just you folks making up stories

it would seem that some have only the 4 gospels and maybe...maybe...Revelation in their scriptures

people need to understand that many if not most, Sabbath keepers/law keepers, do not hold much of the NT in the same regard as the rest of the Bible...especially Paul. some actually think that anything in scripture written or purported to be written by Paul, as spurious
 
Aug 27, 2017
4,574
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I am sorry Jaumel, to post how I think about the law in response to you. You promote the law more than any other poster, my antenna went up over "Jesus fulfilled the law". As I reread your post I think you meant it as scripture has it: that Jesus is the lamb of Passover given for our salvation. So many read this as saying that the law is over and done with, that Jesus changed the written law because Jesus explained it to us better than ever before. They read that Jesus fulfilled as saying that Jesus put a stop to the law when Jesus added love to what was written.

no actually that is not true

we understand that Jesus fulfilled the obligations of the law and presented to His Father a sinless and perfect sacrifice and the matter of the law and animal sacrifice is no longer in effect...unless someone puts themself back under it. all non-believers are still answerable to God in the sense that they have not been forgiven of their sins

understand that Jaume seems to either misunderstand, or deliberately continues to actually create posts that are not very truthful with regards to those who oppose his stance on the law.

Jesus actually fulfilled the obligations of the law which is something law keepers cannot seem to wrap their heads around

further, they continue in their confusion by stating that we have no regard for the commandments of God and do not believe we are accountable for our sin

actually, we are no longer accountable for our sin, but not because we think sinning does not matter, but because God no longer sees our sin

either Jesus is our High Priest or He isn't.
 
Oct 13, 2017
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Beign members of the Body of Yeshua in this age, we cotinue as He did, obeying the law according to how He teaches it is.

He has made the vast majority of the laws unnecessary for His Body members to continue in, but we are to obey all laws which are merciful and in the make-up of love.

Anyone who has learned from Jesus Christ would never teach against the law, his ne character obeys because the remain, though also in print, are on our hearts.

In order to attract more to Jesus Christ we must be as much as He as is given us to be possible.

Do not teach against the law, it is here while there is a heaven and earth, perhaps longer…...I do know Love is eternal.
Try again after reading what Jesus stated. This is how he teaches us it is.
ALL OF THE LAW! Do you know what the law states?

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
Nov 10, 2013
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Do you know what the law states? Here it is. Maimonides gathered them together since they are scattered throughout the Torah. There are 613 of them. They are divided in many ways. All, men, women, location only etc. etc. Just try keeping them perfectly. Only Jesus did it.
Endoscopy, I am only replying to the bolded, and for reason I read what you state time and again in CC.....but this is what the scriptures say:
Luke 1:
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.

Just wondering what can you respond to this?
 
Jul 2, 2011
14,048
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I have been qui
I am sorry Jaumel, to post how I think about the law in response to you. You promote the law more than any other poster, my antenna went up over "Jesus fulfilled the law". As I reread your post I think you meant it as scripture has it: that Jesus is the lamb of Passover given for our salvation. So many read this as saying that the law is over and done with, that Jesus changed the written law because Jesus explained it to us better than ever before. They read that Jesus fulfilled as saying that Jesus put a stop to the law when Jesus added love to what was written.
te explicit in all my posting that Jesus says He did not come to abolish the law rather to fulfill it, and He went on to say the law will always be in effect while earth and ehaven bove exist. He proceeded to warn all not to teach against the law as He hs made it to be...………..
 
Feb 28, 2017
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Paul and Jesus are quite clear on the mater of the law. The law was put in place to show us just how sinful we actually are. We are sin.
With out the aid of a savior we have no hope of salvation.
God sends in Jesus at just the right time to be that savior!
He died on the cross for our behalf so that through him we may have eternal life with God.
That new life we now have can gain nothing through the law. In fact the law is apposed to our new way of life. Love is the answer. Love of God and love of neighbor. A mind focused on how to love needs no law dictating good from bad.
 
Oct 13, 2017
3,308
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So many people agree with you that the law is futile. They based this on the fact that God is a Holy God who has the law as part of His very being so no human can obey law enough to be saved by God. For that the law is futile.

But to me the law, other than that one fact, is everything the 119th psalm tells us it is. Just to begin with this scripture describing the everlasting law it tells us the law is wonderful, truth, precious, better than gold, trustworthy, and everlasting. It preserves life, frees us, gives comfort, makes us wise, and gives us good judgment. This is a partial list.

All of the laws that our governments have are based on these laws for even atheist know they make our world work. Yet, for the Christians the law is only to convince us of guilt, obedience to it only makes us wrongly feel self righteous, and it is only legalistic and given to us as hard mean rules that destroys love.

Paul's letters often discuss the problem of law bringing out ways it can be used wrong but every single time the letters conclude with the truth of the law in the 119th psalm, telling us to obey. Few Christians speak of this conclusion, only that the law is a negative to be avoided. I don't think they are right.

I think the conclusion Christians have made that the law is to be avoided and is wrong is saying God is wrong and kills the Christ spirit that should be within them.
I hate to disillusion you but that is past history and not current law. The LBGT etc. crowd has laws on the books about discrimination taking it to you are not allowed to express a negative opinion on them since that is considered hate speech. This goes state by state. This country is almost completely secular today. The big protestant denominations were taken over by secular ministers who only want access to the church money. Gary North wrote a book about the take over of Presbyterian USA in 1932. It started in the 1880s. He stated in his book that the rest of the 7 sister large protestant denominations were taken over at the same time. Almost half of the people in the country attend church but only a fraction ever hear the gospel message.

I agree with the rest of your post.
 
Dec 1, 2018
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the real question here is why do people who say they believe in the grace of God insist on all the addendums to it?

if you add to grace it is no longer grace

and again we have the time worn absolute lie being introduced that those who understand the law never saved anyone, are easy believers and have thrown the 10 commandments on the funeral pyre

that is a lie. no one has ever said that and I for one find it the weakest yet most used so called revelation unveiled by those who have one foot in the old and one foot in the new testament

if you even have one wrong thought....never mind deed...you have broken the entire law

get busy. you have much to catch up on it would seem. the Catholics have a system some may wish to emulate ...perhaps flogging? or the rosary to put you back in good standing
i don't think you understand grace. it is not something that insulates from all other human activity. it is designed t
really?

so why then does the NT tell us that nothing can separate us from the love of God...and that He will complete the work He has started in us?

are you going to make this about works now? well why not since Sabbath keeping and law keeping are works
READ scripture. it does not say nothing can separate us from our salvation. it says nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God. You have missed the point of what is taught in the NT. None can keep all the law. That is the reason we need a savior. But you confuse coming to Christ and living in the Holy Spirit. We can throw scripture at each other all day. The point is your position is just as extreme as those who would claim based on John 5 and Matthew 25 that we are saved by works. Saving faith and works go together. Respectfully, it is not about works, it is about your misuse of grace.

Listen to what you preach. Understand the LOGIC of what you say. Since no work (bad or good) of a human affects your salvation, those Christians who say they can live in sin are absolutely right according to what you preach because nothing a human does has any effect on their salvation. Is this really the message you want to preach before God?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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i don't think you understand grace. it is not something that insulates from all other human activity. it is designed t


READ scripture. it does not say nothing can separate us from our salvation. it says nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God. You have missed the point of what is taught in the NT. None can keep all the law. That is the reason we need a savior. But you confuse coming to Christ and living in the Holy Spirit. We can throw scripture at each other all day. The point is your position is just as extreme as those who would claim based on John 5 and Matthew 25 that we are saved by works. Saving faith and works go together. Respectfully, it is not about works, it is about your misuse of grace.

Listen to what you preach. Understand the LOGIC of what you say. Since no work (bad or good) of a human affects your salvation, those Christians who say they can live in sin are absolutely right according to what you preach because nothing a human does has any effect on their salvation. Is this really the message you want to preach before God?

oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.

I don't know you at all

you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me

btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too ;)

one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it

here ya go: Not by Works

it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime

I suspect it was made just for people like you
 
Dec 1, 2018
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oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.

I don't know you at all

you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me

btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too ;)

one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it

here ya go: Not by Works

it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime

I suspect it was made just for people like you
i will look at it. not going off on you; responding to you.