Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Have you ever heard of a group called the Hebrew Israelites?They love the old testament and deny CLEAR scripture spoken of In the New Testament scriptures and cling to the Old Testament which they Don't and Can't keep.

Yes, I am familiar with that group and I agree with your observations.

It's hard to imagine that with so much space in between the cart and the horse historically speaking, and without the light of the New Testament command of Jesus, "that you love one another as I have loved you", that anyone would want to be part of that movement.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

The Roman Catholic Church holds the erroneous and heretical position that their tradition and dictates of the pope are equal with the authority of Scripture. A blasphemous position.

"82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence." Source

Sola Scriptura holds the position that the Scriptures alone are the final authority of all matters of faith and practice.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God's word alone is pure and uncontaminated. It is infallible. It is God's Word.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Grace you accurately quote, " 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Unfortunately, for your interpretation/point of view on that Scripture passage is wrong, In fact, you distort it's meaning. You don't want to hear this but, it says 'All Scripture' and definitely not 'Only Scripture. HUGE DIFFERENCE. I agree that all Scripture is God's truth, Bible/Old Testament/New Testament. No question about that.

As an analogy, if a person is studying to be a doctor, the Professor may teach him/her that the study of ALL ANATOMY will help you to be a good doctor. But that's surely not the same as saying ONLY the study of Anatomy will help you be a good doctor. NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

But you are trying to get the Scripture to say ONLY SCRIPTURE and it clearly does not. Paul clearly tells us that Sola Scriptura is not true in 2 Thessalonians :15, So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. For sure Paul is telling us that the unwritten traditions are truth also.

Furthermore, according to the apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 3:15, the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. The Church is the very foundation upon which the Truth rests.

Grace, you are trying to distort God's word that 'All Scripture' and make us believe that it should read 'Only Scripture' and it doesn't, It clearly doesn't.

Scripture, Paul, and the Bible clearly indicate that Sola Scriptura is not true.

Are you not attempting to distort the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 to suggest Paul is saying the tradition of Roman Catholicism and the dictates of the pope are equal in authority with the Scriptures, as it pertains to faith?

1 Corinthians 4:6
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

 

[peldom10]

The law is OT not NT. No one can obey the entire law, that's why Jesus came.

Only new age religion folks believe that......The law is the law...under the NC/NT ....also.

 

[Jesusfollower]

Paul himself answered this question rhetorically when he said "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

Careful reading of Paul's epistles will show that he based his teachings on what Christ taught him.

And Jesus wouldn't necessarily contradict Himself. One must consider the different types of audiences that Jesus (and Paul) spoke or wrote to.

Just to make a point, paul never met Jesus... just saying. I also add that paul did not add anything to what Jesus son of GOD thought us. paul was more busy spreading his own gospel. Jesus preached to all, Jews and gentiles. He thought about the Law in the temple and he also came to preach the kingdom of GOD and redeemed us for our sins.

Blessings,

JF

 

[arthurfleminger]

Are you not attempting to distort the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 to suggest Paul is saying the tradition of Roman Catholicism and the dictates of the pope are equal in authority with the Scriptures, as it pertains to faith?

1 Corinthians 4:6
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

Grace, Sola Scriptura means Scripture alone. Firstly, there was no Bible, Old and New Testament, for over300 years after Jesus ascended. So the Bible couldn't have been the authority during that time span. The Bible was compiled around the year 314AD. Secondly, there were no printing presses until the 1500s, so bibles had to be painstakingly copied by hand and they were so rare the public generally didn't have access to them. Thirdly, the printing press began mass producing Bibles, but unfortunately there were no public schools for those not of the aristocracy, so over 90% of the public couldn't read or write until the 1800s.. So, the Bible couldn't have been the primary source of Gods word, people didn't have access to it.

Sola Scriptura is completely non Biblical. In itself it is completely a man made tradition and nothing more:

The phrase Sola Scriptura originated out of the 16th century Protestant Reformation. Sola Scriptura is one of the Five Solas. The Five Solas are statements that became the slogans of the Reformation and are now seen as core tenets of the faith.

Going back to Sola Scriptura for example, Jesus never said sola scriptura in any gospel. Paul, Peter, James and John never wrote sola scriptura. The Apostolic Church, since the first century never said sola scriptura. Sola scriptura was a man made tradition from the Protestant Reformation.

The funny thing about the doctrine of Sola Scripture is that it is an oxymoron. It claims 'Scripture Only' but the very idea of Sola Scriptura is a man made tradition and not Scriptural at all.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Grace, Sola Scriptura means Scripture alone. Firstly, there was no Bible, Old and New Testament, for over300 years after Jesus ascended. So the Bible couldn't have been the authority during that time span. The Bible was compiled around the year 314AD. Secondly, there were no printing presses until the 1500s, so bibles had to be painstakingly copied by hand and they were so rare the public generally didn't have access to them. Thirdly, the printing press began mass producing Bibles, but unfortunately there were no public schools for those not of the aristocracy, so over 90% of the public couldn't read or write until the 1800s.. So, the Bible couldn't have been the primary source of Gods word, people didn't have access to it.

Sola Scriptura is completely non Biblical. In itself it is completely a man made tradition and nothing more:

The phrase Sola Scriptura originated out of the 16th century Protestant Reformation. Sola Scriptura is one of the Five Solas. The Five Solas are statements that became the slogans of the Reformation and are now seen as core tenets of the faith.

Going back to Sola Scriptura for example, Jesus never said sola scriptura in any gospel. Paul, Peter, James and John never wrote sola scriptura. The Apostolic Church, since the first century never said sola scriptura. Sola scriptura was a man made tradition from the Protestant Reformation.

The funny thing about the doctrine of Sola Scripture is that it is an oxymoron. It claims 'Scripture Only' but the very idea of Sola Scriptura is a man made tradition and not Scriptural at all.

Solas. The Five Solas are statements that became the slogans of the Reformation and are now seen as core tenets of the faith.

Going back to Sola Scriptura for example, Jesus never said sola scriptura in any gospel. Paul, Peter, James and John never wrote sola scriptura. The Apostolic Church, since the first century never said sola scriptura. Sola scriptura was a man made tradition from the Protestant Reformation.

The funny thing about the doctrine of Sola Scripture is that it is an oxymoron. It claims 'Scripture Only' but the very idea of Sola Scriptura is a man made tradition and not Scriptural at all.

And if that's not enough, Sola Fide/Faith Alone is also a man made tradition. Faith is cited many times in the New Testament but never, never, never, never, do you see 'FAITH ALONE' anywhere in the Bible. Another man made tradition. Faith, hope, and charity; of these charity is the greatest.

I suspect that if one were to investigate all five solas, they'd prove to be non Biblical, just someone's interpretation of their religion/sect. That case is too easy to prove. But I will let you pull snippets from the Bible, out of context, to support your claims of the solas. But they aren't in the Bible.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

The Roman Catholic Church holds the erroneous and heretical position that their tradition and dictates of the pope are equal with the authority of Scripture. A blasphemous position.

"82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence." Source

Sola Scriptura holds the position that the Scriptures alone are the final authority of all matters of faith and practice.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God's word alone is pure and uncontaminated. It is infallible. It is God's Word.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Grace you accurately quote, " 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Unfortunately, for your interpretation/point of view on that Scripture passage is wrong, In fact, you distort it's meaning. You don't want to hear this but, it says 'All Scripture' and definitely not 'Only Scripture. HUGE DIFFERENCE. I agree that all Scripture is God's truth, Bible/Old Testament/New Testament. No question about that.

As an analogy, if a person is studying to be a doctor, the Professor may teach him/her that the study of ALL ANATOMY will help you to be a good doctor. But that's surely not the same as saying ONLY the study of Anatomy will help you be a good doctor. NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

But you are trying to get the Scripture to say ONLY SCRIPTURE and it clearly does not. Paul clearly tells us that Sola Scriptura is not true in 2 Thessalonians :15, So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. For sure Paul is telling us that the unwritten traditions are truth also.

Furthermore, according to the apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 3:15, the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. The Church is the very foundation upon which the Truth rests.

Grace, you are trying to distort God's word that 'All Scripture' and make us believe that it should read 'Only Scripture' and it doesn't, It clearly doesn't.

Scripture, Paul, and the Bible clearly indicate that Sola Scriptura is not true.

Are you not attempting to distort the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:15 to suggest Paul is saying the tradition of Roman Catholicism and the dictates of the pope are equal in authority with the Scriptures, as it pertains to faith?

1 Corinthians 4:6
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

Grace, Sola Scriptura means Scripture alone. Firstly, there was no Bible, Old and New Testament, for over300 years after Jesus ascended. So the Bible couldn't have been the authority during that time span. The Bible was compiled around the year 314AD. Secondly, there were no printing presses until the 1500s, so bibles had to be painstakingly copied by hand and they were so rare the public generally didn't have access to them. Thirdly, the printing press began mass producing Bibles, but unfortunately there were no public schools for those not of the aristocracy, so over 90% of the public couldn't read or write until the 1800s.. So, the Bible couldn't have been the primary source of Gods word, people didn't have access to it.

Sola Scriptura is completely non Biblical. In itself it is completely a man made tradition and nothing more:

The phrase Sola Scriptura originated out of the 16th century Protestant Reformation. Sola Scriptura is one of the Five Solas. The Five Solas are statements that became the slogans of the Reformation and are now seen as core tenets of the faith.

Going back to Sola Scriptura for example, Jesus never said sola scriptura in any gospel. Paul, Peter, James and John never wrote sola scriptura. The Apostolic Church, since the first century never said sola scriptura. Sola scriptura was a man made tradition from the Protestant Reformation.

The funny thing about the doctrine of Sola Scripture is that it is an oxymoron. It claims 'Scripture Only' but the very idea of Sola Scriptura is a man made tradition and not Scriptural at all.

Obviously you can only respond with the same spiel about the solas and don't wish to engage in any kind of discussion here.
Got it!

Your redundant posts here remind me of the General insurance commercial with Shaq and Michael buffer.

Ok, Michael I get it. LOL

 

[arthurfleminger]

Obviously you can only respond with the same spiel about the solas and don't wish to engage in any kind of discussion here.
Got it!

Your redundant posts here remind me of the General insurance commercial with Shaq and Michael buffer.

Ok, Michael I get it. LOL

And your posts spout unbiblical solas. Your solas are a 16th century fraud. And you're correct. I really don't have anything more to add than what I've already said. Anyway, God Bless.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Just to make a point, paul never met Jesus... just saying. I also add that paul did not add anything to what Jesus son of GOD thought us. paul was more busy spreading his own gospel. Jesus preached to all, Jews and gentiles. He thought about the Law in the temple and he also came to preach the kingdom of GOD and redeemed us for our sins.

Blessings,

JF

GOD IS a SPIRIT and HE met Paul on the road to Damascus.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Just to make a point, paul never met Jesus

If that is true, then pray tell, WHO was he conversing with on the road
to Damascus?:

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard A Voice Saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, LORD? And The LORD Said, I AM JESUS Whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, LORD, what wilt Thou have me to do? And The LORD Said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Are you Sure he was talking with Someone he never met?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[kaylagrl]

Only new age religion folks believe that......The law is the law...under the NC/NT ....also.

I didn't say it was different. I said no one can keep the law perfectly. That is why there was animal sacrifice. It covered sin, but it did not take it away. But Jesus came and fulfilled the law. He is the sacrifice, we no longer kill animals for their blood. His blood washes away sin, it doesn't simply "cover" it.

 

[Magenta]

Grace, Sola Scriptura means Scripture alone. Firstly, there was no Bible, Old and New Testament, for over300 years after Jesus ascended. So the Bible couldn't have been the authority during that time span. The Bible was compiled around the year 314AD. Secondly, there were no printing presses until the 1500s, so bibles had to be painstakingly copied by hand and they were so rare the public generally didn't have access to them. Thirdly, the printing press began mass producing Bibles, but unfortunately there were no public schools for those not of the aristocracy, so over 90% of the public couldn't read or write until the 1800s.. So, the Bible couldn't have been the primary source of Gods word, people didn't have access to it.

The Bible as we know it today as a published book did not exist, but that does not mean Scripture
was not in existence. Even if printed out copies were rare, there was always oral tradition.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Some Christians believe that the four primary Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were meant for the Jews. Of course, these Gospels are the Gospels in which Jesus teaches and performs His ministry. Some gentile Christians believe that only the New Testament teachings of Paul are meant for them, as Paul was appointed to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.

In a nutshell, some Christians believe that only portions of the New Testament pertain to them. So, when you have differences in what Jesus and Paul teach, then they side with Paul.

If you think there are differences between the teachings of the Apostle Paul and our Lord Jesus Christ then it is perhaps you who are confused, because there are no differences.

The entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation need understood to truly understand the faith... And Paul actually did a very good job teaching us how it all comes together for those of us living under the New Covenant now. He never once strayed from the teachings of Christ, not once. In fact, he only made what Jesus was speaking about and doing more clear,, and with a clear understanding of the Old Testament we can see how it all comes together so beautifully in Christ.

 

[Jesusfollower]

If that is true, then pray tell, WHO was he conversing with on the road
to Damascus?:

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard A Voice Saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, LORD? And The LORD Said, I AM JESUS Whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, LORD, what wilt Thou have me to do? And The LORD Said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Are you Sure he was talking with Someone he never met?

GRACE And Peace...

Of course I know about this, can you tell me pray what the others that were with paul in the desert heard or see?

Blessings,

JF

 

[Jesusfollower]

GOD IS a SPIRIT and HE met Paul on the road to Damascus.

Examine all things with diligence and you will find the truth.


Blessings,

JF

 

[SteveEpperson]

Only new age religion folks believe that......The law is the law...under the NC/NT ....also.

I agree. We have to be careful not to let our salvation be an excuse for not following the ten commandments. The author of Romans addresses this in the first few chapters to the new followers of Christ.

After all, the central theme of repentance is a willingness to obey God's moral law, which is laid out for us in the ten commandments. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Goliath]

You don't understand the doctrine the Lord Jesus taught in the gospels.
We are no longer under that Law when we come to the Lord Jesus. We are under His Grace.

Brother I appreciate your concern..I really do.
But what about that Law, the one God has put you under?
We can use words to deflect the Truth, but when it's written on your heart...Not so easy to ignore..Is it?
You know the one, the one you have fought against....since the day you received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Paul had to deal with it, and so do we. The most beautiful thing about Pauls epistles...is His testimony.
Notice in (Romans 7) what caused his death to sin. It was the Law.

As far as Gods Grace...Jesus clearly tells us in (John 14:21)...Gods Grace is upon those who keep his commandments. Unless you define Grace differently than the Lord did. If you can, show me your definition in the Lords Gospel.

 

[Goliath]

But not for the Christian... we don't live by the law anymore.

Well that true, and explains why so many pastors run off with their secretaries, but not before they kill her husband and his wife. Today many Christians see themselves as not being under Gods Laws. Again..not talking about the Law of Moses, but the Law God has put into your heart.

In an attempt to wake you all up...I want to point out the elephant in the room.
That being, if you are not under the Law...You have no Law...and if you have no Law...you are called Lawless in the Bible.
And Paul, has a scary prophecy for you to read.
But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for those who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
(1 Timothy 1:8-10)

 

[Goliath]

Kosher diet? No pork and shellfish?

Too funny..thanks for the laugh. I don't use a laptop for which I believe CC was designed. Which is why when using my IPad, when I write, some parts of the words tend to get deleted. And if I don't give myself time to give a careful review, it can read a bit goofy.

 

[peldom10]

I didn't say it was different. I said no one can keep the law perfectly. That is why there was animal sacrifice. It covered sin, but it did not take it away. But Jesus came and fulfilled the law. He is the sacrifice, we no longer kill animals for their blood. His blood washes away sin, it doesn't simply "cover" it.

The commandments does not prevent someone from sinning...but, Christs' sacrifice on the cross.... created grace......under which we may obtain forgiveness by repentance.
Leave .....perfection out.......we know that .......the Bible tells us so and is the reason God gave us unlimited times for forgiveness of sin. Even though it must be our objective .

It seems you have another thought in your summary...define it for us.