Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

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beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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If Scriptures clearly stated that Christians must keep the Sabbath, just like the Israelites did, I would do it too. If salvation depended on Sabbath keeping, of course I would do it
seems I missed an important detail >>must keep the sabbath just like the Israelites did<<<

NO SIR ! not like it was kept in the OT ! Don't you know there has been a change in the law (keeping of it ) since Jesus Christ ? You should inform yourself (through study) of the New System before you so hastily reject it !
 
Jun 1, 2016
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If you google Paul false apostle you'll get hundreds of thousands of results. Of course, not all results contain opinions against Paul, but I estimate that at least half of them state that he departed from the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also those who don't go to the extreme of calling Paul a false apostle, but regard him as "not completely reliable".

Is there any reason for us to think that Paul's authority is questionable?

the only reason people think that, is because modern false teachers omit His doctrine and preach thier own and then label it pauls doctrine. pauls doctrine is on the money its just hard to understand when you dont hear Jesus first.

paul taught this type of stuff in every epistle and no one ever really speaks of it, because it destroys the modern versions labeled his doctrine

romans 8 : Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."



Galatians 5 " This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ( all sinful attitudes and actions that exclude from inheritance) 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."


what if you looked at that not through a grace lens, but through the word of Jesus would it help reconcile paul and Jesus doctrine? ask if maybe pauls " flesh v spirit" doctrine is speaking from things like this that Jesus said.


Jesus john 6:63 " It is the spirit that quickeneth ( gives life) ; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."


john 3 " Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God......5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "

john 8:51 "
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil.


john 14:25-26 " These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

what if paul is saying follow and walk in the spirit, because Jesus said His word is spirit and then contunuallysaid, walk in my wors, keepthem follow them abide in them...and paul saying walk in the spirit.....actually isnt contradicting, but you need the Jesus Lens instead of jps lens


 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Paul also said : Be you followers of me as I also follow Christ 1Cor 11v1.

So with all that good advice why do people NOT follow Paul or JESUS ? why do they actually read the Bible since they have no intention of obeying it ? are they just looking to contradict it ? I get very tired of all these arguments....must be my age !
 
Mar 28, 2016
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the only reason people think that, is because modern false teachers omit His doctrine and preach thier own and then label it pauls doctrine. pauls doctrine is on the money its just hard to understand when you dont hear Jesus first.

I would offer by adding my understanding to it . Its the results of taking the exclusive "things of God" not seen and accrediting them as the "things of men" (Blasphemy) as that seen.

We walk by faith, the eternal unseen, not by sight the temporal as if the eternal kingdom did come by observation. The reason the outward Jew did not receive Christ.they required observation.... glorying in the flesh.

They never become Paul's doctrine as if what Paul did not receive it freely and he would have something to boast about as if he did not receive it freely.The apostles do not rise above that which is written .

God gave him the words and watched to make sure they were fulfilled. In that way Our living God is a watcher, teacher, comforter and guide who also is accredited for bringing to mind daily that which he has taught us..As a watcher He must increase as we decrease.

paul taught this type of stuff in every epistle and no one ever really speaks of it, because it destroys the modern versions labeled his doctrine
The meaning of the word apostle has been almost destroyed .The modern version in defining the word apostle in most cases gives the word a meaning foreign from the Bible.

Ultimately in the end of the matter violating the warning in Deuteronomy 4:2 in respect to changing the meaning of a word (single) which is different than the warning in Revelation 22 .Do not add to the book of prophecy, the Bible

Note..... (purple in parenthesis) my added comments

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular)which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it(singular), that ye may keep the commandments(plural) of the LORD your God which I command you.

For instance .Some say a requirement is they have seen the Lord. As if for one thing the scriptures would instruct us to walk by sight, as if the Kingdom of God was of this corrupted world and it came by observation. Therefore making us the watchers in respect to what our eyes sees as in natural man and not the eyes of our new hearts as men of the Spirit of Christ (the watcher).

A good root definition of the word apostle with no other meaning added or subtracted from the root of the word I think would help solve many of the conflicts of those who are looking at another gospel unaware.

The apostle Jeremiah under the inspiration of another the Holy Spirit, helps us understand what it means that Christ performs that which he appoints to us. As we are informed in Philippians 2 of His imputed righteousness .in so much that our Emmanuel who works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure . Not Paul's good pleasure or the good pleasure of Moses, or Jeremiah or after any man

Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, "I see a rod of an almond tree".(the sign of the rod of rebellion) Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.Jer 1:12

In the passage above the; "I shall send thee" is the qualification of a apostle'

If we add meaning to it or subtract from it it changes it into false.

Interestingly as the Spirit of Christ witnessed to the spirit of Jeremiah he uses the sign of rebellion "I see a rod of an almond tree" to verify the words he put on the apostle Jeremiah's tongue.The same applies to Paul or any God sends (apostle) with his word. prophecy.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Paul also said : Be you followers of me as I also follow Christ 1Cor 11v1.

So with all that good advice why do people NOT follow Paul or JESUS ? why do they actually read the Bible since they have no intention of obeying it ? are they just looking to contradict it ? I get very tired of all these arguments....must be my age !
I would offer... its not follow me and Jesus but as I follow Jesus (understanding or walking by faith not by sight)

It when men try and follow Paul as that seen that they fall .

Some follow Peter today . The apostate Jews followed Abraham in respect to his flesh

Peter followed after John ....got his eyes off of Jesus because of his jealously and started a oral tradition of the fathers (men) that John would never die. Jesus called him a liar as one of the many times he made the oral tradition of men to no effect.

He informs us if every time he had to rebuke a disciple for playing "who is the greatest" the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
How can anyone believe Paul a false prophet when reading how God brought him into the fold. What a dramatic conversion. Paul humbled himself in many ways after that conversion. IMHO Paul preached the Word of God to the Gentiles and his own fellow Jews as sincerely as the Word can be preached.

It's truly amazing to me that anyone can say Paul is false.
 
Nov 23, 2016
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Simple really. They think higher of themselves than they do God's chosen messenger of the gospel to the gentiles.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible. https://www.gotquestions.org/apostle-Paul-false-prophet.html
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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The theory that the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible. https://www.gotquestions.org/apostle-Paul-false-prophet.html
and today I came across another Bible verse that clearly evidences the differences between Jesus' teachings before the cross and Jesus' teachings after the resurrection (through His spokesman Paul):

1 Timothy 6:17 New International Version (NIV)

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment".

According to Paul it is OK to be rich, provided you are not arrogant and don't put your hope in wealth.

During his earthly ministry, however, Jesus said:

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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If you google Paul false apostle you'll get hundreds of thousands of results. Of course, not all results contain opinions against Paul, but I estimate that at least half of them state that he departed from the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also those who don't go to the extreme of calling Paul a false apostle, but regard him as "not completely reliable".

Is there any reason for us to think that Paul's authority is questionable?
One is he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament . So if you discredit him you weaken the Bible. They have been doing that to Jesus for centuries. What do we know of Paul ? 1. Luke was an Eye witness to Paul's Ministry, and nothing Luke has said changes anything Paul wrote in his letters to the churches. Paul died a martyr death for the Gospel . Those who suggest Paul departed would be those of the "Catholic " church because they hold Peter as the first Pope and hold Peter as the "Rock" on which the church was built. Of course this is wrong context the R.C.C has taken biblically, because Jesus when HE said to Peter "

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18 Peter was not the "This Rock Jesus was speaking about .

Jesus said this after Peter profession of who Jesus is :

Matthew 16

starting verse 15-17

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

it was this statement Peter said that Jesus said in verse 18

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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and today I came across another Bible verse that clearly evidences the differences between Jesus' teachings before the cross and Jesus' teachings after the resurrection (through His spokesman Paul):

1 Timothy 6:17 New International Version (NIV)

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment".

According to Paul it is OK to be rich, provided you are not arrogant and don't put your hope in wealth.

During his earthly ministry, however, Jesus said:

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"
"and today I came across another Bible verse that clearly evidences the differences between Jesus' teachings"

Still harping on about Paul I see - there is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul and I don't understand why you are seeking to make contradictions where there is none. Seems like an agenda to me.

And why would you leave out the context unless you have a pretext?

1 Tim 6:17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.

1 Tim 6:18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Still harping on about Paul I see - there is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul and I don't understand why you are seeking to make contradictions where there is none. Seems like an agenda to me.
Have you already sold your properties and given the money to the poor, as Jesus commanded when he was on earth? Do you obey the scribes and Pharisees? Do you keep all the 10 commandments, including the fourth? Do you guys, in your congregation, wash one another's feet?

Or do you follow the teachings of the resurrected Jesus, that were given to us through Paul?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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and today I came across another Bible verse that clearly evidences the differences between Jesus' teachings before the cross and Jesus' teachings after the resurrection (through His spokesman Paul):

1 Timothy 6:17 New International Version (NIV)

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment".

According to Paul it is OK to be rich, provided you are not arrogant and don't put your hope in wealth.

During his earthly ministry, however, Jesus said:

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"
This shows how very little you understand Scripture and God himself, frankly. You seriously need some 2 Timothy 2:15 help...
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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This shows how very little you understand Scripture and God himself, frankly. You seriously need some 2 Timothy 2:15 help...
Have you already sold all your properties and given the money to the poor as Jesus commanded?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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and today I came across another Bible verse that clearly evidences the differences between Jesus' teachings before the cross and Jesus' teachings after the resurrection (through His spokesman Paul):

1 Timothy 6:17 New International Version (NIV)

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment".

According to Paul it is OK to be rich, provided you are not arrogant and don't put your hope in wealth.

During his earthly ministry, however, Jesus said:

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"
might want to look closer & at more of what Jesus said, dude..

And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
(Matthew 19:23-26)

the disciples thought this meant no one could be saved - here was a rich man, who kept the Law, and came to Christ to learn that he was still lacking. Jesus corrected them.

the text doesn't call being rich evil. it doesn't say the rich cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. it says it is difficult, and He says with God all things are possible.
salvation doesn't come by the will, desire or effort of man, but from God who has mercy. this is what Jesus says and what Paul, His apostle, also says.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Have you already sold all your properties and given the money to the poor as Jesus commanded?
shall we assume you yourself are posting from a public library computer, because you have sold everything you 'own' and given it all to the poor?

should we be measuring each other this way, or even at all.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Have you already sold all your properties and given the money to the poor as Jesus commanded?
Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, we also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
(John 21:3)
how is it the apostles have a boat & fishing tackle if they were commanded to sell all they had, and why is Jesus telling them to cast their net on the right side of the ship ((v.6)) instead of rebuking them for being in possession of material property?
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Jesus taught the very same Gospel first to Abraham, then to the Hebrews , then when He first came to all mankind in Jerusaem and Israel to the Jews. It is the same Gospel that is given to the nations since the Cross.

He teaches the same to all. If someone thinks differently it may only be attributed to misunderstanding. This does not translate as the person is not achild in the Holy Spirit, but it does demonstrate deception......thinking He taught more than one Gospel I mean.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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If you google Paul false apostle you'll get hundreds of thousands of results. Of course, not all results contain opinions against Paul, but I estimate that at least half of them state that he departed from the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also those who don't go to the extreme of calling Paul a false apostle, but regard him as "not completely reliable".

Is there any reason for us to think that Paul's authority is questionable?
Hey! Marcelo... PTL!
Mt 16:17 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou Simon Barjonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Do you know of anyone now-a-days of whom Jesus said, blessed art thou for my Father hath revealed it to thee? So to reject Paul's teachings one must ignore Jesus' words concerning Peter, which will never pass away and also they must reject Peter to reject Paul's epistles, sadly!
2 Pet 3:15,16 "And account that the long suffering of our Lord to be salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
So to be among those who reject Paul's teaching is to be of those who are unlearned and unstable to the point of destruction! Yikes!
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, we also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
(John 21:3)
how is it the apostles have a boat & fishing tackle if they were commanded to sell all they had, and why is Jesus telling them to cast their net on the right side of the ship ((v.6)) instead of rebuking them for being in possession of material property?
Hey! posthuman... PTL!
Because it was their father's boat and not theirs to do with as they please.
Maranatha!