why does" Grace" change the word?
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I am tryigng to help disciple a nephew, He is so sick of these churchy terms. and wonders why we do not say what we mean instead of using all these words which means nothing to todays youth (we do not even use them in english anymore) I had to spend about an hour trying to explain to him what redemption means, unfortunately we were interupted by his daughter so I am still not sure he knows what it means.
It is getting bad. The church is not meeting the needs of the younger generation. We are not being all things to all people like paul said.
It is getting bad. The church is not meeting the needs of the younger generation. We are not being all things to all people like paul said.
I had boldened the words in your scriptural reference to point out that the only obedience that is required for following Him is to believe in Him in what He has been sent to do; and that you can place your confidence in Him to finish His work in you.
By the grace of God we have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior and now reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ; we can now live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by that same grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd that He will help us to follow Him because that is all any redeemed sinner can do which is to His glory too.
By the grace of God we have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior and now reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ; we can now live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by that same grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd that He will help us to follow Him because that is all any redeemed sinner can do which is to His glory too.
Sin is our total inability to know the heart of God, each step is a step away from Christ,
each thought goes towards ourselves and how we benefit from any situation.
Sin displays its power in immorality, hatred, bitterness, envy, covertousness, greed,
self indulgence, murder, theft, miss using Gods name, dishonouring ones parents.
Sin is the actions, but is the fruit of the root of a corrupted heart by shutting out
sin and looking for revenge at the pain held within.
The law of Christ marks out the individual points of failure, which just show how
far we are from the heart of God.
To desire righteousness is to do right things, to walk in love, to care, to respond
to need, to be as one wished one was as an ideal in behaviour. It is a place of
purity and joy, of fulfillment and true open fellowship.
But this requires a heart change, giving over the keys to Christ, submitting ones
behaviour to Him and just obeying. In our desperation we call out, that we know
we cannot do anything, or succeed or choose aright. It is this humbleness before
the cross, that admits Christ is the source of light and love and we need to learn
His ways and walk in them.
To be born again is to know the forgiveness that comes, to be healed and purified
when we declare our faith in Him and His sacrifice. So many declare the same thing,
everything comes alive and life starts again.
This is entering by the gate, the start of the walk. There is no other way than this.
Now if you do not know this in yourself or have never been here I humbly ask you
to search out Gods heart and ask Him to show you this reality. In the end it is alone
His work in you, no man can bring you to this place.
Dear Lord I come to you a sinner, asking for your forgiveness for my sins through the cross,
that you might teach me to walk in your ways, and know your fellowship in my life.
Thank you Lord for coming to me, convicting me, and help me to dwell in you and read
your word so I can grow in your Kingdom
Amen.
each thought goes towards ourselves and how we benefit from any situation.
Sin displays its power in immorality, hatred, bitterness, envy, covertousness, greed,
self indulgence, murder, theft, miss using Gods name, dishonouring ones parents.
Sin is the actions, but is the fruit of the root of a corrupted heart by shutting out
sin and looking for revenge at the pain held within.
The law of Christ marks out the individual points of failure, which just show how
far we are from the heart of God.
To desire righteousness is to do right things, to walk in love, to care, to respond
to need, to be as one wished one was as an ideal in behaviour. It is a place of
purity and joy, of fulfillment and true open fellowship.
But this requires a heart change, giving over the keys to Christ, submitting ones
behaviour to Him and just obeying. In our desperation we call out, that we know
we cannot do anything, or succeed or choose aright. It is this humbleness before
the cross, that admits Christ is the source of light and love and we need to learn
His ways and walk in them.
To be born again is to know the forgiveness that comes, to be healed and purified
when we declare our faith in Him and His sacrifice. So many declare the same thing,
everything comes alive and life starts again.
This is entering by the gate, the start of the walk. There is no other way than this.
Now if you do not know this in yourself or have never been here I humbly ask you
to search out Gods heart and ask Him to show you this reality. In the end it is alone
His work in you, no man can bring you to this place.
Dear Lord I come to you a sinner, asking for your forgiveness for my sins through the cross,
that you might teach me to walk in your ways, and know your fellowship in my life.
Thank you Lord for coming to me, convicting me, and help me to dwell in you and read
your word so I can grow in your Kingdom
Amen.
I would observe this is not redemption in the normal biblical way that speaks
to every believer but a talisman redemption which is not redemption at all.
Everyone understands loving people and doing the right thing.
Learning to walk like this in fellowship with Christ is redemption.
We are washed cleaned when we are saved and then trained through
discipleship to walk.
Now that did not take 1 hour to explain. You see the problem with
heresy, yet the heretic is blind to the obvious.
to every believer but a talisman redemption which is not redemption at all.
Everyone understands loving people and doing the right thing.
Learning to walk like this in fellowship with Christ is redemption.
We are washed cleaned when we are saved and then trained through
discipleship to walk.
Now that did not take 1 hour to explain. You see the problem with
heresy, yet the heretic is blind to the obvious.
I would call this blasphemy. You have just proved my point.
True repentance before the cross is something you are disowning.
With this you disown Christ himself.
But because you have not walked in it, but labelled with as "works salvationism"
you are totally blind to the spiritual reality.
Now I speak only to the elect. There is nothing we can do with people like this
because they have already labelled and rejected the basis of faith.
If you bolt and block the door of life, there is nothing left for you.
True repentance before the cross is something you are disowning.
With this you disown Christ himself.
But because you have not walked in it, but labelled with as "works salvationism"
you are totally blind to the spiritual reality.
Now I speak only to the elect. There is nothing we can do with people like this
because they have already labelled and rejected the basis of faith.
If you bolt and block the door of life, there is nothing left for you.
Especially when the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak; therefore what is impossible of man , is possible with God.
So the initial call at salvation was never about repenting from all sin; what sinner can do that when He needs Jesus Christ in him to depart from sin? The only requirement of repentance at salvation is repent from unbelief by believing in Him.
Mark 9:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.[SUP]24 [/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Then His disciples are to disciple believers on His words of what they need Him for to repent from as well as to help them do the things that He has taught which is to love others; even their enemies when it is possible as He leads.
There are a lot of saved believers out there that do not go beyond trusting Christ as their Savior to trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd. They read Psalm 23 at funerals, but they do not apply it to how they follow Him as their Good Shepherd... and even I need His help to remind me when going through the storms in my life.
So do we not really need to rely on Jesus ALL the time for living as His? I do. So why look to the sinner to "truly" repent when we should be pointing the sinner to Him to help them truly repent? So let us say what we really mean because Jesus will finish the race for us when we rest in Him to do it. Is it any wonder why the crowns we receive, we cast at His feet? The crowns are His crowning achievements in us when we trust Him to do it. It is His glory; & we shall thank Him for it.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
To think of all the garbage that the Lord has helped us through; so point sinners and christians that live in sin to the One Whom is able to deliver them from their bondage to sin & to death so they can rest in Him for all things & be joyful in Him.
2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
So the initial call at salvation was never about repenting from all sin; what sinner can do that when He needs Jesus Christ in him to depart from sin? The only requirement of repentance at salvation is repent from unbelief by believing in Him.
Mark 9:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.[SUP]24 [/SUP]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Then His disciples are to disciple believers on His words of what they need Him for to repent from as well as to help them do the things that He has taught which is to love others; even their enemies when it is possible as He leads.
There are a lot of saved believers out there that do not go beyond trusting Christ as their Savior to trusting Him as their personal Good Shepherd. They read Psalm 23 at funerals, but they do not apply it to how they follow Him as their Good Shepherd... and even I need His help to remind me when going through the storms in my life.
So do we not really need to rely on Jesus ALL the time for living as His? I do. So why look to the sinner to "truly" repent when we should be pointing the sinner to Him to help them truly repent? So let us say what we really mean because Jesus will finish the race for us when we rest in Him to do it. Is it any wonder why the crowns we receive, we cast at His feet? The crowns are His crowning achievements in us when we trust Him to do it. It is His glory; & we shall thank Him for it.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
To think of all the garbage that the Lord has helped us through; so point sinners and christians that live in sin to the One Whom is able to deliver them from their bondage to sin & to death so they can rest in Him for all things & be joyful in Him.
2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Everything that is needful for Salvation, including purification, is accomplished by the Grace of God.
If you think that you purified yourself and became 'worthy' by your own power and will then you aren't purified.
Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Its funny the english word know. We can know this. And then we can know this. One means we know about something, intellectually. The other means we know intimately with our hearts and mind.
If you think that you purified yourself and became 'worthy' by your own power and will then you aren't purified.
Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Its funny the english word know. We can know this. And then we can know this. One means we know about something, intellectually. The other means we know intimately with our hearts and mind.
I had to read this a few times in order to understand what you are saying here Peter. The last paragraph I thought to be very insightful.
But, my only disagreement would be with what you call a talisman gospel. Anyone who has been truly born again understands a need for someone greater than self. The circumstances really don't matter since it's always the work of Holy Spirit to convict and convince one of our need for God.
A distant memory of a sinful life should be don't you think? Otherwise, how would we see who and what we now are being made into? That alone should bring humility to us as we see Jesus as He is through the scriptures and Holy Spirit teaching us, true?
perhaps we all look through a lens of our own individual experience, and then try to compare it with others in a judging way?
Anyway, I did like your post.
But, my only disagreement would be with what you call a talisman gospel. Anyone who has been truly born again understands a need for someone greater than self. The circumstances really don't matter since it's always the work of Holy Spirit to convict and convince one of our need for God.
A distant memory of a sinful life should be don't you think? Otherwise, how would we see who and what we now are being made into? That alone should bring humility to us as we see Jesus as He is through the scriptures and Holy Spirit teaching us, true?
perhaps we all look through a lens of our own individual experience, and then try to compare it with others in a judging way?
Anyway, I did like your post.
Grace changes everything because God has not given up on us.
What springs out to me is "love" is our key, yet love means "pain" and "risk".
The Lords challenge is to give life to His people and lead the free army of
loving individuals into His kingdom.
But do we everyday see opportunites to meet need as the gems of the day,
or as annoying things that stop us making money and influence in our work.
Imagine if you could count how many gifts of love you gave today to others.
How high would your total be today?
This is the heart of our King. His delight is to bless and see things go well,
work together in harmony and peace, bringing blessing to those around.
How often do you meet this spirit in those around you or in yourself?
What springs out to me is "love" is our key, yet love means "pain" and "risk".
The Lords challenge is to give life to His people and lead the free army of
loving individuals into His kingdom.
But do we everyday see opportunites to meet need as the gems of the day,
or as annoying things that stop us making money and influence in our work.
Imagine if you could count how many gifts of love you gave today to others.
How high would your total be today?
This is the heart of our King. His delight is to bless and see things go well,
work together in harmony and peace, bringing blessing to those around.
How often do you meet this spirit in those around you or in yourself?
i think thats a problem alot of folks deal with, by plucking a vers or two from what is a ctually being said in the Word. its like a person telling another what a great novel is about, yet....they are quoting a sentance or two. Sure, we can trust in Jesus to help us in our weaknesses, this according to His words. and Faith is enough. the thing is though Faith isnt an inward thought that Jesus is Lord, it is to Live Life as if Jesus is Lord. One way will lead to "away from me you workers of iniquity" the other way will led to " welcome thy good and faithful servant to the kingdom prepared for you"
rather than choose which verses to believe and form an idea, were suppose to learn and believe all of the word, not just the verses with the word Grace. Just LikeMoses and the isrealites, Gods grace is the sourse of His goodness to us, that in no way changes Our role in serving God with all our heart. truly if your not looking to simply argue.....Let me ask you " who would sincerely Believe in Jesus given all the word says of Him, and then disregard the many things Like this that He says"
john 14:23-26 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
who is bold enough to say " I love Jesus " but His word His teaching and commands have nothing to do with Loving Him?
Grace doesnt change Obedience, it forgives the sinful lives we lived beforehand that had seperated us from God. If we accept that and go on living the same sinful Lives, we are serving the same master that destroyed our relationship with Him to begin with. we are to obey everything He taught......
matthew 28:18-20 "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
if i just embolden parts of this i can say " look baptoism is all that matters v19. if i say that verse is all that applies...But the thing is, why would i do that when that is to omit the rest of whats being said? if i do that it changes the message from the Lord that says " teach them to observe everything that I have commanded you... there is no reason for us to pluck what we want to hear from the word, Our place is to learn it and believe it, apply it to Life.
rather than choose which verses to believe and form an idea, were suppose to learn and believe all of the word, not just the verses with the word Grace. Just LikeMoses and the isrealites, Gods grace is the sourse of His goodness to us, that in no way changes Our role in serving God with all our heart. truly if your not looking to simply argue.....Let me ask you " who would sincerely Believe in Jesus given all the word says of Him, and then disregard the many things Like this that He says"
john 14:23-26 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
who is bold enough to say " I love Jesus " but His word His teaching and commands have nothing to do with Loving Him?
Grace doesnt change Obedience, it forgives the sinful lives we lived beforehand that had seperated us from God. If we accept that and go on living the same sinful Lives, we are serving the same master that destroyed our relationship with Him to begin with. we are to obey everything He taught......
matthew 28:18-20 "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
if i just embolden parts of this i can say " look baptoism is all that matters v19. if i say that verse is all that applies...But the thing is, why would i do that when that is to omit the rest of whats being said? if i do that it changes the message from the Lord that says " teach them to observe everything that I have commanded you... there is no reason for us to pluck what we want to hear from the word, Our place is to learn it and believe it, apply it to Life.
"Grace changes everything because God has not given up on us."
Grace is meant to change US. Gods Grace was always there for man. adam changed us through sin, Grace was still there. How many times did God " not give up on the isrealites?" He was always full of Grace. Through Jesus Now, WE are changed from the heart. to believe that Jesus suffered and died as He did on our behalf, That has to change a persons heart. God isnt looking at us like were ants or hoping well fail and be destroyed, through Jesus we understand He Loves and desires us so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die for Our transgression that we may be saved. Rather than hearing His commands from a pillar of smoke, fire and rumblings of thunder like at horeb, we get the Lords Word from the One who was Here to give His Life to save us. Grace doesnt change Gods word, its meant to change rebels to followers and in that we are saved by Grace.
Grace is meant to change US. Gods Grace was always there for man. adam changed us through sin, Grace was still there. How many times did God " not give up on the isrealites?" He was always full of Grace. Through Jesus Now, WE are changed from the heart. to believe that Jesus suffered and died as He did on our behalf, That has to change a persons heart. God isnt looking at us like were ants or hoping well fail and be destroyed, through Jesus we understand He Loves and desires us so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die for Our transgression that we may be saved. Rather than hearing His commands from a pillar of smoke, fire and rumblings of thunder like at horeb, we get the Lords Word from the One who was Here to give His Life to save us. Grace doesnt change Gods word, its meant to change rebels to followers and in that we are saved by Grace.
followjesus
I believe you misunderstood my thought here. The choice of going the right way is at our conversion. The gospel of good news is the power of iniquity is broken when born from above.
We who are His know Him, and are known. No longer sinners, but righteous. The declaration of being righteous is only because Father has placed us in His Son. The very blood of Jesus has been poured onto the mercy seat in heaven; that blood has a voice which the scripture states is greater than Abels, for human blood cries out for justice and veangeance. Divine blood of the Son who laid His life blood down for us only speaks mercy....grace!
Believe it and a religious mindset that wants to strangle the very life of Jesus in you and then through you to others, will leave.
Freedom to reign in Him then comes.
I believe you misunderstood my thought here. The choice of going the right way is at our conversion. The gospel of good news is the power of iniquity is broken when born from above.
We who are His know Him, and are known. No longer sinners, but righteous. The declaration of being righteous is only because Father has placed us in His Son. The very blood of Jesus has been poured onto the mercy seat in heaven; that blood has a voice which the scripture states is greater than Abels, for human blood cries out for justice and veangeance. Divine blood of the Son who laid His life blood down for us only speaks mercy....grace!
Believe it and a religious mindset that wants to strangle the very life of Jesus in you and then through you to others, will leave.
Freedom to reign in Him then comes.
I believe in grace, Christ on the cross, God become man executed by evil men to get rid
of the threat to the power of the temple, but became the atoning sacrifice for all who
believe. It is the staggering nature of this act that is our foundation, our rescue, our
life, and its realisation that through this we find complete healing for our souls.
But I do not think this is what the movement means here, because they have not repented
deeply, or know what bowing at the foot of the cross really means, or finding healing within
and perspective by seeing Christ dying for us everyday, in all that we do and say.
But the lie is "religion" destroyed redemption and sanctification, when it is hard hearts and
closed minds who shut God out but use the words as if they have meaning.
of the threat to the power of the temple, but became the atoning sacrifice for all who
believe. It is the staggering nature of this act that is our foundation, our rescue, our
life, and its realisation that through this we find complete healing for our souls.
But I do not think this is what the movement means here, because they have not repented
deeply, or know what bowing at the foot of the cross really means, or finding healing within
and perspective by seeing Christ dying for us everyday, in all that we do and say.
But the lie is "religion" destroyed redemption and sanctification, when it is hard hearts and
closed minds who shut God out but use the words as if they have meaning.