Why does the Law cause contention among professing Christians?
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One man's opinion. I don't think you can find me many verses in the bible that correlate wine with judgment. A winepress, on the other hand, does symbolize judgment.
IMO, both wine and oil symbolize spirit. The latter is produced from pressing, which symbolizes life of the spirit produced from suffering; and the former is produced from the transformation of one substance to another. This of course, IMO, symbolizes the new birth; the transformation of the old, corruptible Adam into the second, incorruptible Adam. Grapes will rot; wine lasts forever.
IMO, both wine and oil symbolize spirit. The latter is produced from pressing, which symbolizes life of the spirit produced from suffering; and the former is produced from the transformation of one substance to another. This of course, IMO, symbolizes the new birth; the transformation of the old, corruptible Adam into the second, incorruptible Adam. Grapes will rot; wine lasts forever.
C
If only the pharisees could obey the law. According to Yeshua (I'm getting more comfortable using His real name now) they talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. According to Him again they put human traditions over Yahweh's law. According to the record pharisees went to seminaries and were proud of their knowledge.
Those claim that they obey the ten commandments and appear righteous are as good as those claim they obey the Holy Spirit and appear righteous isn't it?
Even gentiles who don't have the Holy Spirit sometimes do the right thing.
Those claim that they obey the ten commandments and appear righteous are as good as those claim they obey the Holy Spirit and appear righteous isn't it?
Even gentiles who don't have the Holy Spirit sometimes do the right thing.
L
I'm sorry if you think I am trying to be a false witness. I have heard Michael Rood's teachings....He teaches Torah observance and restoring the "Hebrew Roots" of the Christian faith. How is he planning to do that? I was very much involved in the Hebrew Roots movement for almost 10 years. As far as I'm concerned, it is pure legalism and Pharisaism. Michael Rood has some good teachings, but they are mixed with a lot of legalism, IMHO.
Isaiah 65:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
Isaiah 24:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Revelation 18:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
1 Samuel 16:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
I see that the wine of judgment is not always condemnation but sometime judgments of blessing.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
Isaiah 24:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Revelation 18:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
1 Samuel 16:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
I see that the wine of judgment is not always condemnation but sometime judgments of blessing.
It was along these lines. The disciples knew they were sinful, common men. Christ can work with that. The pharisees thought their knowledge of the law placed them above the common man in GOD's eyes.
Christ can't work with a vessel that's full of self pride.
Then the Pharisees replied to them, “You have not also been deceived, have you? None of the rulers or of the Pharisees have believed in him, have they? But this crowd who does not know the law is accursed!” John 7:47-49
Christ can't work with a vessel that's full of self pride.
Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which don't see might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. John 9:39-41
Not wanting to disagree, because your presentation is very good. The thing that I was saying about the wine, and the containers that held the wine were connected in physical and spiritual terms as the rest of the Bible is. The wine is contained, and there is new wine with a new container.
In circumcision, there is only one entity, even though there is a separation of sorts, there is nothing new underneath, or inside. So I equate the circumcision with the sensitivity of the fruit of the spirit, rather than comparing it with the covenants, old and new. Yet circumcision is part of the old covenant. You have good thoughts though. Something for me to think about.
In circumcision, there is only one entity, even though there is a separation of sorts, there is nothing new underneath, or inside. So I equate the circumcision with the sensitivity of the fruit of the spirit, rather than comparing it with the covenants, old and new. Yet circumcision is part of the old covenant. You have good thoughts though. Something for me to think about.
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Back to the question of the OP...
Galatians 4:21-23, 29 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 6:12-13 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Galatians 4:21-23, 29 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 6:12-13 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Least, God Bless you sis, You have so much good to share, and you have been such a blessing to both of us. I just wanted to mention one more thing. A covenant is an agreement, and the agreement contains stipulations/judgments. Those stipulations can be blessing by adhering to the agreement, and consequences due to the failure of one, or both parties, not abiding by it. God didn't fail, we failed as the human race. So the covenant is the container of the agreement with many stipulation written within. I just didn't want to be confusing.
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So are we separating the law from the direction of the Holy Spirit? I ask this because I'm sincerely trying to understand what are the 2 factions that cause these drastic differences in thinking. There needs be a coming together somewhere. Have we replaced the law with the Holy Spirit, or do we deny the direction of the Holy Spirit by recognizing the validity of the Law? Are they the 2 things that cause division, or is it something else? I’m trying to make it simple, because there is simplicity in Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
There is defiantly something wrong. We need to fix it, and we do have the power to do so! If we can’t, we are surly in error. We will be judged accordingly.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
There is defiantly something wrong. We need to fix it, and we do have the power to do so! If we can’t, we are surly in error. We will be judged accordingly.
I agree. it still is a teacher that is Holy, good, just, and Spiritual though. Do you agree?
Romans 7:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.